What do you do about snakes in the garden? Especially when they could be
one of 4 poisonous kind and at least 1 protected kind?

My problem is the babies get into the house. I'm not sure how they do it
but they show up inside, usually far from any door or window. I also get
geckos and anoles inside but they don't bother me near as much.

Now I know some will say the usual about them being more afraid of you that
you are of them. Ordinarily I would not care and would just leave them
alone but I have a small dog and a handicapped and ill mother to be
concerned about. We do see moccaisins and copperheads. Never seen a coral
or a rattle snake though. And yes we do have a ditch behind the back fence
which has a creek (sort of) and it's a flood control area so they stir up
both snakes and rats when they clear it out.

I need advice on discouraging them from coming into the yard at all.

Thanks

Shell

We have occasional black (rat) snakes. These snakes are big--up to 6
feet long. One wound around a dieffenbachia to the top. These snakes
eat copperheads, rats, moles. and other pests. I've seen 3 copperhead
snakes on my property in 12 years, but many more black widow spiders
which are more dangerous. Learn to identify snakes, most are very
beneficial. Watch where you put your hands and where you step and you
will propbably never have a worry. They don't want to be in your
house, but you can help by keeping the doors closed and tight. Many
folks have a natural fear of snakes; something I never understood. I
have found snake eggs in the compost pile--I guess the heat attracts
them. There's a product with sulphur that supposedly deters snakes
but I havn't tried it.

We had a skink living in the garage one year that sunned himself every
afternoon. Gave him fresh water everyday in a small dish. His job
was eating all the roaches and spiders in the garage. One day he just
disappeared. One of my neighbors kills them.

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:28:37 GMT, "Shell91"
wrote:

What do you do about snakes in the garden? Especially when they could be
one of 4 poisonous kind and at least 1 protected kind?

My problem is the babies get into the house. I'm not sure how they do it
but they show up inside, usually far from any door or window. I also get
geckos and anoles inside but they don't bother me near as much.

Now I know some will say the usual about them being more afraid of you that
you are of them. Ordinarily I would not care and would just leave them
alone but I have a small dog and a handicapped and ill mother to be
concerned about. We do see moccaisins and copperheads. Never seen a coral
or a rattle snake though. And yes we do have a ditch behind the back fence
which has a creek (sort of) and it's a flood control area so they stir up
both snakes and rats when they clear it out.

I need advice on discouraging them from coming into the yard at all.

Thanks

Shell

We have those as well as several water snakes. I didn't know they ate
copperheads. Haven't ever seen a black widow here, I imagine there are some
around somewhere but we've never seen any. We keep an eye out for brown
recluses though.

I never harm geckos or lizards, skinks or toads or frogs either. They're
welcome to all the roaches and mosquitoes they can eat In fact last
night I caught George the Wonder Gecko and his twin Jeffrey and put them
outside We had 12 geckos on the garage wall last night around and under
the security light. It's a real treat to hear them chirping at night.

Mostly I just want to discourage snakes from hanging around by the sliding
door to the back yard.

Shell
"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
We have occasional black (rat) snakes. These snakes are big--up to 6
feet long. One wound around a dieffenbachia to the top. These snakes
eat copperheads, rats, moles. and other pests. I've seen 3 copperhead
snakes on my property in 12 years, but many more black widow spiders
which are more dangerous. Learn to identify snakes, most are very
beneficial. Watch where you put your hands and where you step and you
will propbably never have a worry. They don't want to be in your
house, but you can help by keeping the doors closed and tight. Many
folks have a natural fear of snakes; something I never understood. I
have found snake eggs in the compost pile--I guess the heat attracts
them. There's a product with sulphur that supposedly deters snakes
but I havn't tried it.

We had a skink living in the garage one year that sunned himself every
afternoon. Gave him fresh water everyday in a small dish. His job
was eating all the roaches and spiders in the garage. One day he just
disappeared. One of my neighbors kills them.

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:28:37 GMT, "Shell91"
wrote:

What do you do about snakes in the garden? Especially when they could be
one of 4 poisonous kind and at least 1 protected kind?

My problem is the babies get into the house. I'm not sure how they do it
but they show up inside, usually far from any door or window. I also get
geckos and anoles inside but they don't bother me near as much.

Now I know some will say the usual about them being more afraid of you
that
you are of them. Ordinarily I would not care and would just leave them
alone but I have a small dog and a handicapped and ill mother to be
concerned about. We do see moccaisins and copperheads. Never seen a
coral
or a rattle snake though. And yes we do have a ditch behind the back
fence
which has a creek (sort of) and it's a flood control area so they stir up
both snakes and rats when they clear it out.

I need advice on discouraging them from coming into the yard at all.

Thanks

Shell

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 12:33:48 GMT, Phisherman wrote:
We have occasional black (rat) snakes. These snakes are big--up to 6
feet long. One wound around a dieffenbachia to the top. These snakes
eat copperheads, rats, moles. and other pests. I've seen 3 copperhead
snakes on my property in 12 years, but many more black widow spiders
which are more dangerous. Learn to identify snakes, most are very
beneficial. Watch where you put your hands and where you step and you
will propbably never have a worry. They don't want to be in your
house, but you can help by keeping the doors closed and tight. Many
folks have a natural fear of snakes; something I never understood.
If you can't understand it then you're not trying very hard. Try
evolution. Which is more likely, that we would evolve to recoil from
any snake until we're sure it isn't poisonous, or that we would treat
is as friendly until proven otherwise? That's why its called a
natural fear, even though some people can overcome that fear.

Swyck

I don't buy that. I do buy that people vary in how sensitive they are to
changes in the environment (some more jumpy than other) and then you have a
great deal of social messages sent out from day one (little girls are
dressed in pink and lace - told not to get dirty, kept close and not allowed
to explore on their own - little boys told to go out and play, dressed in
dark colors, plaids, etc.)

I'm not the least bit afraid of "creepy, crawlies" but I certainly respond
if I feel something crawling on me. Whether that response is negative or
not is pretty much what we have been taught.

DKat

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 12:33:48 GMT, Phisherman wrote:
We have occasional black (rat) snakes. These snakes are big--up to 6
feet long. One wound around a dieffenbachia to the top. These snakes
eat copperheads, rats, moles. and other pests. I've seen 3 copperhead
snakes on my property in 12 years, but many more black widow spiders
which are more dangerous. Learn to identify snakes, most are very
beneficial. Watch where you put your hands and where you step and you
will propbably never have a worry. They don't want to be in your
house, but you can help by keeping the doors closed and tight. Many
folks have a natural fear of snakes; something I never understood.
If you can't understand it then you're not trying very hard. Try
evolution. Which is more likely, that we would evolve to recoil from
any snake until we're sure it isn't poisonous, or that we would treat
is as friendly until proven otherwise? That's why its called a
natural fear, even though some people can overcome that fear.

Swyck

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:28:37 GMT, "Shell91"
wrote:

What do you do about snakes in the garden? Especially when they could be
one of 4 poisonous kind and at least 1 protected kind?

My problem is the babies get into the house. I'm not sure how they do it
but they show up inside, usually far from any door or window. I also get
geckos and anoles inside but they don't bother me near as much.

Is this maybe a case for Your Local Extension Service? I was about to
post something on the rarity of truly dangerous snakes in the US, but
it sounds as if you live one of the few areas that has 'em. All I know
about is *attracting* small beneficial garden snakes with wood/twig
piles. I suppose (newsgroup speculation) one thing to do would be to
find out what sort of habitat they *like* and get rid of it.
Particularly close to your house.

"Shell91" wrote in
:

What do you do about snakes in the garden? Especially when they could
be one of 4 poisonous kind and at least 1 protected kind?

My problem is the babies get into the house. I'm not sure how they do
it but they show up inside, usually far from any door or window. I
also get geckos and anoles inside but they don't bother me near as
much.

Now I know some will say the usual about them being more afraid of you
that you are of them. Ordinarily I would not care and would just
leave them alone but I have a small dog and a handicapped and ill
mother to be concerned about. We do see moccaisins and copperheads.
Never seen a coral or a rattle snake though. And yes we do have a
ditch behind the back fence which has a creek (sort of) and it's a
flood control area so they stir up both snakes and rats when they
clear it out.

I need advice on discouraging them from coming into the yard at all.

I guess the young ones that you say are coming into your house are either
stupid, cold or hungry. Not much you can do about the stupid, except
maybe hire out your local rent-a-mongoose. Water moccasins and
copperheads are typically found near water, and as you probably guessed
the flood control ditch is probably the source of your problems.

You could try amending the fence in a way to inhibit the migration of
snakes or at least make it more likely for them to be caught by a
predator when making the crossing (example: a border of white paint or
chalk). If the fence is already more or less solid, find out what hole
(s) they are crawling through and stuff it.

- S

In many regions, just before winter, snakes migrate from considerable
distances to shared dens. In some places even kingsnakes that eat other
snakes den harmlessly with species they would eat at any other time of the
year. Harmless snakes can be found denned by the thousands with
rattlesnakes by the hundreds. During the migration process snakes will be
crossing the small properties of housing developments that never used to
be there -- same goes for newts & toads migrating en masse to breeding
swamps at winter's end, arriving from miles around, formerly passing
through forests on their way to the Call Of The Orgy, but nowadays passing
through suburbs & being crushed by the thousands crossing highways.

Snakes returning from the edges of their dispersal pattern to the
centralized winter den tend to make this journey over a slightly lengthier
period than toads & newts or ambystamid salamanders who species by species
are all on the move for scant days trying to arrive at ponds
simultaneously. They'll appear en masse, then be gone just as suddenly.
Snakes can be passing through for a few weeks.

Hopefully the snake den is not discovered by children, nor by adult
snake-haters with dynamite, so that the den continues to be of use even
with human settlement encroaching. Some of these dens are used for
generations, conceivably for centuries. New ones tend to be established at
the foot of stone landslides & if not extremely old will have smaller but
still impressive hibernation populations.

When a den is discovered in the midst of a development area, even if there
are no poisonous snakes in the area, some ignorant goon is apt to poison,
burn, or blow it. Such depravity has caused the destruction secondarily of
many garden & orchard trees when after the mass snake extermination the
rodent population rises so dramatically it can no longer feed itself, & so
eats the bark from around the bases of trees, with increased health risk
to humans from zoonotic diseases carried by said overpopulation.

Also field studies have shown these animals can become befuddled by
changes in landscape. Salamanders can become confused and never find their
way back to their traditional breeding ponds if they have to cross
farmland that was for years plowed south to north, but then one year is
plowed east to west, implying some visual & landmark recognition for these
local migrations. Snakes too, finding their areas of passage inexplicably
broken up by new housing & roads, may never again find their traditional
den, & will have to make due in the basements of houses.

When eventually the den is molested or destroyed by harmful humans, the
next time a snake migration heads to winter hide-away, they will be forced
to seek out new lodging willynilly all over the place, singly or in small
clusters. There is no reason they MUST den en masse, & the only thing that
makes their situation difficult to adapt to is the human tendency to smash
them all to hell with shovels. Their den having been lost or destroyed
thanks to human decimations, snakes begin entering the crawlspaces or
basements of houses when autumn temperatures drop & the hibernation spot
that served thousands of snakes for generations can no longer be located.
Dispersed through development areas & slowed down by autumn temperatures,
they become easy pickings for pets, birds, children, & adults that keep
diminishing ophidian populations & their environments.

In deserty areas where rattlesnakes may be at issue, or near southern
wetlands with water moccassins, fears of snakes may have a survival value
for humans. In other places where racers, garter snakes, & harmless
constrictors are the only snakes ever to be encountered, the human desire
to kill them on sight is not beneficial to human survival, as our
destruction of all things of nature does come back to haunt us eventually,
in ways that afflict our own health & well being.

As kids none of us were afraid of snakes. Adults told us never to harm
them. Everyone's gardens, fields, ponds, & nearby run-off ponds had at
least garter snakes, which everyone WANTED in their gardens because they
eat slugs. Why this old attitude has been supplanted with a preference for
wacking them with shovels would seem to have very little to do with our
evolution breeding fear into us because in some places they're poisonous,
& everything to do with the human population's decreasing familiarity with
the natural world. Most mammals from lowest to highest fear what is new to
them. It's easier today for humans to overcome fear of loud noises &
instant death wrought by guns and automobiles or warmongering presidents,
which are too familiar to frighten us as they should. Yet if a totally
harmless & even beneficial garter snake wiggles out in front of us, it's
instantly "omigod what the hell is that get me a sledge hammer!"

Add to that the pure destructive meanness of omnivores for which anything
that exists, whether it can move or can't move, is fair game for
destruction, & the only reason we don't stuff it all in our mouths after
it's mashed is because the microwave oven is more than fifteen steps away
& we're already stuffed with McGreasy Burgers & pizzas, just like that
well-fed pitbull won't stick around & eat the child it just mauled to
death.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

I recoil at the sight of snakes, but I don't try to kill them. When I lived
in north Florida, I gave them a wide berth, because there were so many
poisonous varieties there. Many shared the various swimming holes I went to.
I tried to stay in the white sandy areas, so as to be able to see their
bodies swimming toward me and hightail it out of the water....LOL
It was not unusual to find snake carcasses, or beheaded snakes in the
garden, so apparently other snakes and some species of birds found them easy
to kill. One kind of bird nested in a gourd I hung from a tree in my garden
and it turned out to be a variety that liked to line its nest with the snake
skin that had been shed. I had a few frights when those things would drop
out of the gourd.....LOL
I have never seen anything but little snakes in Spokane, although I think
it's possible that there is a rattler or two out there. We could probably
use more snakes here, but we're not overrun with mice and rats either, so
maybe they're in something of a balance. A few years ago PBS had a special
on a new school built in Saskatchewan, I believe, which was sited on an old
snake winter hibernation den. They showed footage of the snakes arriving by
the THOUSANDS, creeping in doors, windows, ledges, heating ducts, etc. It
was like a horror movie...
"paghat" wrote in message
news
In many regions, just before winter, snakes migrate from considerable
distances to shared dens. In some places even kingsnakes that eat other
snakes den harmlessly with species they would eat at any other time of the

Yep, Houston has it all including both warm and cool weather mosquitos so I
get bit year round

Shell


"Frogleg" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:28:37 GMT, "Shell91"
wrote:

What do you do about snakes in the garden? Especially when they could
be
one of 4 poisonous kind and at least 1 protected kind?

My problem is the babies get into the house. I'm not sure how they do
it
but they show up inside, usually far from any door or window. I also
get
geckos and anoles inside but they don't bother me near as much.

Is this maybe a case for Your Local Extension Service? I was about to
post something on the rarity of truly dangerous snakes in the US, but
it sounds as if you live one of the few areas that has 'em. All I know
about is *attracting* small beneficial garden snakes with wood/twig
piles. I suppose (newsgroup speculation) one thing to do would be to
find out what sort of habitat they *like* and get rid of it.
Particularly close to your house.

"Salty Thumb" wrote in message
...
"Shell91" wrote in
:

What do you do about snakes in the garden? Especially when they could
be one of 4 poisonous kind and at least 1 protected kind?

My problem is the babies get into the house. I'm not sure how they do
it but they show up inside, usually far from any door or window. I
also get geckos and anoles inside but they don't bother me near as
much.

Now I know some will say the usual about them being more afraid of you
that you are of them. Ordinarily I would not care and would just
leave them alone but I have a small dog and a handicapped and ill
mother to be concerned about. We do see moccaisins and copperheads.
Never seen a coral or a rattle snake though. And yes we do have a
ditch behind the back fence which has a creek (sort of) and it's a
flood control area so they stir up both snakes and rats when they
clear it out.

I need advice on discouraging them from coming into the yard at all.

I guess the young ones that you say are coming into your house are either
stupid, cold or hungry. Not much you can do about the stupid, except
maybe hire out your local rent-a-mongoose. Water moccasins and
copperheads are typically found near water, and as you probably guessed
the flood control ditch is probably the source of your problems.

You could try amending the fence in a way to inhibit the migration of
snakes or at least make it more likely for them to be caught by a
predator when making the crossing (example: a border of white paint or
chalk). If the fence is already more or less solid, find out what hole
(s) they are crawling through and stuff it.

- S

I'm thinking seriously about digging a small trench and setting the new
fence in concrete. It might help although I've seen snakes climbing trees
around here.

Shell

"paghat" wrote in message
news
In many regions, just before winter, snakes migrate from considerable
distances to shared dens. In some places even kingsnakes that eat other
snakes den harmlessly with species they would eat at any other time of the
year. Harmless snakes can be found denned by the thousands with
rattlesnakes by the hundreds. During the migration process snakes will be
crossing the small properties of housing developments that never used to
be there -- same goes for newts & toads migrating en masse to breeding
swamps at winter's end, arriving from miles around, formerly passing
through forests on their way to the Call Of The Orgy, but nowadays passing
through suburbs & being crushed by the thousands crossing highways.

Snakes returning from the edges of their dispersal pattern to the
centralized winter den tend to make this journey over a slightly lengthier
period than toads & newts or ambystamid salamanders who species by species
are all on the move for scant days trying to arrive at ponds
simultaneously. They'll appear en masse, then be gone just as suddenly.
Snakes can be passing through for a few weeks.

Hopefully the snake den is not discovered by children, nor by adult
snake-haters with dynamite, so that the den continues to be of use even
with human settlement encroaching. Some of these dens are used for
generations, conceivably for centuries. New ones tend to be established at
the foot of stone landslides & if not extremely old will have smaller but
still impressive hibernation populations.

When a den is discovered in the midst of a development area, even if there
are no poisonous snakes in the area, some ignorant goon is apt to poison,
burn, or blow it. Such depravity has caused the destruction secondarily of
many garden & orchard trees when after the mass snake extermination the
rodent population rises so dramatically it can no longer feed itself, & so
eats the bark from around the bases of trees, with increased health risk
to humans from zoonotic diseases carried by said overpopulation.

Also field studies have shown these animals can become befuddled by
changes in landscape. Salamanders can become confused and never find their
way back to their traditional breeding ponds if they have to cross
farmland that was for years plowed south to north, but then one year is
plowed east to west, implying some visual & landmark recognition for these
local migrations. Snakes too, finding their areas of passage inexplicably
broken up by new housing & roads, may never again find their traditional
den, & will have to make due in the basements of houses.

When eventually the den is molested or destroyed by harmful humans, the
next time a snake migration heads to winter hide-away, they will be forced
to seek out new lodging willynilly all over the place, singly or in small
clusters. There is no reason they MUST den en masse, & the only thing that
makes their situation difficult to adapt to is the human tendency to smash
them all to hell with shovels. Their den having been lost or destroyed
thanks to human decimations, snakes begin entering the crawlspaces or
basements of houses when autumn temperatures drop & the hibernation spot
that served thousands of snakes for generations can no longer be located.
Dispersed through development areas & slowed down by autumn temperatures,
they become easy pickings for pets, birds, children, & adults that keep
diminishing ophidian populations & their environments.

In deserty areas where rattlesnakes may be at issue, or near southern
wetlands with water moccassins, fears of snakes may have a survival value
for humans. In other places where racers, garter snakes, & harmless
constrictors are the only snakes ever to be encountered, the human desire
to kill them on sight is not beneficial to human survival, as our
destruction of all things of nature does come back to haunt us eventually,
in ways that afflict our own health & well being.

As kids none of us were afraid of snakes. Adults told us never to harm
them. Everyone's gardens, fields, ponds, & nearby run-off ponds had at
least garter snakes, which everyone WANTED in their gardens because they
eat slugs. Why this old attitude has been supplanted with a preference for
wacking them with shovels would seem to have very little to do with our
evolution breeding fear into us because in some places they're poisonous,
& everything to do with the human population's decreasing familiarity with
the natural world. Most mammals from lowest to highest fear what is new to
them. It's easier today for humans to overcome fear of loud noises &
instant death wrought by guns and automobiles or warmongering presidents,
which are too familiar to frighten us as they should. Yet if a totally
harmless & even beneficial garter snake wiggles out in front of us, it's
instantly "omigod what the hell is that get me a sledge hammer!"

Add to that the pure destructive meanness of omnivores for which anything
that exists, whether it can move or can't move, is fair game for
destruction, & the only reason we don't stuff it all in our mouths after
it's mashed is because the microwave oven is more than fifteen steps away
& we're already stuffed with McGreasy Burgers & pizzas, just like that
well-fed pitbull won't stick around & eat the child it just mauled to
death.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

Garter snakes and even yellow bellied water snakes (the protected species in
my area) I don't mind. It's the poisonous ones, especially as I have an
elderly dog and a handicapped and legally blind mother to be concerned about
when they go outside. So the best thing seems to be to discourage all
snakes from coming up close to the house

Shell

"Shell91" wrote:

I'm thinking seriously about digging a small trench and setting the new
fence in concrete. It might help although I've seen snakes climbing trees
around here.

I have a large lily pond and am in the process of cleaning it out and
making repairs. The deep end of the pond is 8' deep. After I drained
it, a snake crawled down the corner at the deep end. It wedged its body
in the corner and just casually crawled down this vertical wall. We
didn't see it crawl out, but saw it after it did crawl out. When we
picked it up to look at it, and about 4 small fish came out its mouth.
It had just crawled into the pool for lunch. Now I know why the small
fish never got any bigger. They never lived long enough.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Visit my Rhododendron and Azalea web pages at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/rhody.html
Also visit the Rhododendron and Azalea Bookstore at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/rhodybooks.html
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

Yep, snakes can crawl up just about anything. Poor fish.
Shell


"Stephen M. Henning" wrote in message
news
"Shell91" wrote:

I'm thinking seriously about digging a small trench and setting the new
fence in concrete. It might help although I've seen snakes climbing
trees
around here.

I have a large lily pond and am in the process of cleaning it out and
making repairs. The deep end of the pond is 8' deep. After I drained
it, a snake crawled down the corner at the deep end. It wedged its body
in the corner and just casually crawled down this vertical wall. We
didn't see it crawl out, but saw it after it did crawl out. When we
picked it up to look at it, and about 4 small fish came out its mouth.
It had just crawled into the pool for lunch. Now I know why the small
fish never got any bigger. They never lived long enough.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Visit my Rhododendron and Azalea web pages at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/rhody.html
Also visit the Rhododendron and Azalea Bookstore at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman/rhodybooks.html
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

"Shell91" wrote in
:


I'm thinking seriously about digging a small trench and setting the
new fence in concrete. It might help although I've seen snakes
climbing trees around here.

I don't know enough about snakes to know if the aquatic kind can climb
walls, but it wouldn't surprise me if they can. But hopefully a solid
fence would make it less convenient for the snake (or snake's prey) to make
it's way into your yard. If the fence's color contrasts greatly with the
snake, the small ones, if they can climb the fence at all, should make easy
pickings for any predators (herons, hawks, giant bullfrogs) on the other
side.