hi, i'm new. i just moved into a new construction home in Snohomish, WA -
in the convergence zone (yeah, that means it rains even more here than in
Seattle), that's USDA zone 8a, i think. i'm on a mostly level, one acre lot,
with no landscaping and some sparse grass.
i'm slowly bringing things together, aerated and reseeded the lawn,
scattered some nasturtium and poppy seeds in the "beds", planted some summer
bulbs and the obligatory "foundation plantings", and have been slowly
acquiring fruit trees for the front drive. i'm a first time homeowner, so
all of this is new territory for me. i'm of the low maintenance gardening
school, and i don't want to spend a lot of time weeding.

my problem is that my yard backs up to something called a "native growth
area". that would be wonderful, except that the area is completely overrun
with (non-native) himalayan blackberry. and because our yard has such
sparse grass, the "lawn" is now *full* of blackberry sprouts. i've been
trying to get them with a scuffle hoe, but an acre is a LOT of land to hoe.

do i have any hope of keeping my yard free of these invasive vines? i can't
kill anything in the "native growth" area, so they'll constantly be sending
out runners and spitting out seeds, and whatever else they do. i've read
that they can reproduce if you just drop a branch on the lawn. is there any
hope for me? i've been having nightmares about "Still Life with
Woodpecker", by Tom Robbins.

tia
-kelly

I would have thought you could "Spot treat" the young shoots with a hormone
brushwood killer without harming the rest of the native plants, do this in
the evening so that there is no chance of vapour getting to other plants.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

"culprit" wrote in message
...

hi, i'm new. i just moved into a new construction home in Snohomish, WA -
in the convergence zone (yeah, that means it rains even more here than in
Seattle), that's USDA zone 8a, i think. i'm on a mostly level, one acre
lot,
with no landscaping and some sparse grass.
i'm slowly bringing things together, aerated and reseeded the lawn,
scattered some nasturtium and poppy seeds in the "beds", planted some
summer
bulbs and the obligatory "foundation plantings", and have been slowly
acquiring fruit trees for the front drive. i'm a first time homeowner, so
all of this is new territory for me. i'm of the low maintenance gardening
school, and i don't want to spend a lot of time weeding.

my problem is that my yard backs up to something called a "native growth
area". that would be wonderful, except that the area is completely
overrun
with (non-native) himalayan blackberry. and because our yard has such
sparse grass, the "lawn" is now *full* of blackberry sprouts. i've been
trying to get them with a scuffle hoe, but an acre is a LOT of land to
hoe.

do i have any hope of keeping my yard free of these invasive vines? i
can't
kill anything in the "native growth" area, so they'll constantly be
sending
out runners and spitting out seeds, and whatever else they do. i've read
that they can reproduce if you just drop a branch on the lawn. is there
any
hope for me? i've been having nightmares about "Still Life with
Woodpecker", by Tom Robbins.

tia
-kelly


Himalayan blackberries are pervasive in all parts of the PNW, so know that
you are not alone in this plight.. You need to maintain a buffer zone
between the "natural growth" area and the cultivated portion of your garden
by keeping the blackberries cut back and nothing planted for at least 6
feet. If you could fence off the area, that would help considerably, but if
that is not possible, routinely maintaining this open space will prevent the
encroachment of the vines onto your property.

Dealing with the shoots that pop up is another matter. Birds (and no doubt
the new construction activity) spread the seeds which can germinate years
after ripening and falling. If you routinely remove or treat with a
brush-killing herbicide, you will get them under control. 'Blackberry and
Brush Blocker' is an acetic acid based formulation that has proven
effective. It temporarily changes the soil pH so that growth is stifled, but
this will apply to any vegetation in the area. Use it BEFORE you plant
anything ornamental in this area. The plants must be in active growth and it
can take upto 6 months of periodic treatment. The soil will also need to be
neutralized before replanting (use lime and a soil test). Otherwise,
non-specific herbicides like RoundUp or Finale painted full strength on the
emerging shoots will help.

The good news is you have a ready source of delicious berries right off your
backyard. As unpleasant and weedy as the vines may be, the berries in August
are hard to beat - just think of all those pies, jams and cobblers you can
make!

pam - gardengal
also in the PNW

"Janice" wrote in message
...

You cannot kill the non-native blackberries in the "native growth"
area? Is the "native growth" area yours or a community "park"

correct. the problem is that along with the invasive blackberries, there
are native "cascade" blackberries, salmon berries, and t(h)imble berries,
all of which *are* native. and you can't kill one without the other,
because they grow completely intertwined with eachother. the area is not a
park, it's a "protected wetland" because when the homes were built in my
area, this area was where all the rain water was directed to. with the
boggy conditions came some cool native wetland flora, birds, and other
animals, so it's now "protected". it's really a mess.


I would think that the first place I'd go is to the County Extension
agent office and take a sample .. not that they'll not know what
you're talking about unless what YOU have is something different than
the stuff that grows along the roads.. and talk to them about your
situation, can't kill the stuff close but not in your yard "proper"
and they'll probably know the best approach as it's a universal
problem in Washington and Oregon West of the mountains.

thanks for the suggestion, i think i'll do this.

-kelly

"culprit" wrote in message ...
"Janice" wrote in message
...

You cannot kill the non-native blackberries in the "native growth"
area? Is the "native growth" area yours or a community "park"

correct. the problem is that along with the invasive blackberries, there
are native "cascade" blackberries, salmon berries, and t(h)imble berries,
all of which *are* native. and you can't kill one without the other,
because they grow completely intertwined with eachother. the area is not a
park, it's a "protected wetland" because when the homes were built in my
area, this area was where all the rain water was directed to. with the
boggy conditions came some cool native wetland flora, birds, and other
animals, so it's now "protected". it's really a mess.


If you can tell the foliage of one species versus the other (and I
really would not know the difference between himalaya and cascade, but
I do think you should be able to tell the thimbleberries at least), an
efficient method to kill only the canes you don't want is to go around
with a small paint brush and a bottle of roundup. Touching one or two
leaves with the paintbrush, dipped in straight roundup, is usually
enough to kill the cane. I do this mostly with poison ivy,
and after several years my 4 oz bottle of Roundup is still more than
half full.

This said, be careful what you wish for. If the blackberries give
plenty of quality berries for four to six weeks, I would be very
motivated to tolerate and even develop them (like, make paths in there
that could allow you to harvest more). After all you are planting
fruit trees, right? And those could go wrong for any reason.

"simy1" wrote in message
om...

If you can tell the foliage of one species versus the other (and I
really would not know the difference between himalaya and cascade, but
I do think you should be able to tell the thimbleberries at least), an
efficient method to kill only the canes you don't want is to go around
with a small paint brush and a bottle of roundup. Touching one or two
leaves with the paintbrush, dipped in straight roundup, is usually
enough to kill the cane. I do this mostly with poison ivy,
and after several years my 4 oz bottle of Roundup is still more than
half full.

they're actually quite easy to tell apart. as far as i can tell, the
himalaya have green three leaf clusters and grow in a great bushy mass, the
cascade have reddish multi-lobed leaves (at least they're red later in the
summer), and trail on single vines through the himalaya bushes.
thimbleberries have fuzzy leaves that look like maple leaves, and grow in
tall canes. i may try this selective roundup idea, but i fear it could take
years.

This said, be careful what you wish for. If the blackberries give
plenty of quality berries for four to six weeks, I would be very
motivated to tolerate and even develop them (like, make paths in there
that could allow you to harvest more). After all you are planting
fruit trees, right? And those could go wrong for any reason.

the himalaya have fair tasting berries, probably not worth trying to
harvest. the cascade have extremely sweet berries with way too many seeds
(they'd make wonderful jam). thimbleberries i think are an acquired taste,
and i've never been able to get to any salmonberries before the birds eat
them all.

but yes, they will all attract birds, and birds are good.

-kelly

hi, i'm new. i just moved into a new construction home in Snohomish, WA -
in the convergence zone (yeah, that means it rains even more here than in
Seattle), that's USDA zone 8a, i think. i'm on a mostly level, one acre lot,
with no landscaping and some sparse grass.
i'm slowly bringing things together, aerated and reseeded the lawn,
scattered some nasturtium and poppy seeds in the "beds", planted some summer
bulbs and the obligatory "foundation plantings", and have been slowly
acquiring fruit trees for the front drive. i'm a first time homeowner, so
all of this is new territory for me. i'm of the low maintenance gardening
school, and i don't want to spend a lot of time weeding.

my problem is that my yard backs up to something called a "native growth
area". that would be wonderful, except that the area is completely overrun
with (non-native) himalayan blackberry. and because our yard has such
sparse grass, the "lawn" is now *full* of blackberry sprouts. i've been
trying to get them with a scuffle hoe, but an acre is a LOT of land to hoe.

do i have any hope of keeping my yard free of these invasive vines? i can't
kill anything in the "native growth" area, so they'll constantly be sending
out runners and spitting out seeds, and whatever else they do. i've read
that they can reproduce if you just drop a branch on the lawn. is there any
hope for me? i've been having nightmares about "Still Life with
Woodpecker", by Tom Robbins.

tia
-kelly



you gotta get a goat...they'll eat your blackberries..just make sure you
fence them in well...otherwise they tend to wander over to neighbours' yards
and eat THEIR blackberries and other more cultivated items. ;p)

I second the goat idea. My sister in law in the PNW has 15 acres and has a
bad blackberry problem, but she has gotten in under control by putting a
moveable fence around smaller areas & sending the goats in. They love the
tender cane shoots and will totally defoliate the mature canes. After the
canes have died, she does a controlled burn on the area and then replants,
transferring the moveable fence to another bramble-infested area. The next
year she sends the goats out again for bramble-shoot cleanup. She has been
able to gradually re-introduce native species in as the areas get cleared of
brambles.

Philosopher


wrote in message
...



hi, i'm new. i just moved into a new construction home in Snohomish,
WA -
in the convergence zone (yeah, that means it rains even more here than
in
Seattle), that's USDA zone 8a, i think. i'm on a mostly level, one acre
lot,
with no landscaping and some sparse grass.
i'm slowly bringing things together, aerated and reseeded the lawn,
scattered some nasturtium and poppy seeds in the "beds", planted some
summer
bulbs and the obligatory "foundation plantings", and have been slowly
acquiring fruit trees for the front drive. i'm a first time homeowner,
so
all of this is new territory for me. i'm of the low maintenance
gardening
school, and i don't want to spend a lot of time weeding.

my problem is that my yard backs up to something called a "native growth
area". that would be wonderful, except that the area is completely
overrun
with (non-native) himalayan blackberry. and because our yard has such
sparse grass, the "lawn" is now *full* of blackberry sprouts. i've been
trying to get them with a scuffle hoe, but an acre is a LOT of land to
hoe.

do i have any hope of keeping my yard free of these invasive vines? i
can't
kill anything in the "native growth" area, so they'll constantly be
sending
out runners and spitting out seeds, and whatever else they do. i've
read
that they can reproduce if you just drop a branch on the lawn. is there
any
hope for me? i've been having nightmares about "Still Life with
Woodpecker", by Tom Robbins.

tia
-kelly



you gotta get a goat...they'll eat your blackberries..just make sure you
fence them in well...otherwise they tend to wander over to neighbours'
yards
and eat THEIR blackberries and other more cultivated items. ;p)

"culprit" wrote in message ...
"simy1" wrote in message
om...

If you can tell the foliage of one species versus the other (and I
really would not know the difference between himalaya and cascade, but
I do think you should be able to tell the thimbleberries at least), an
efficient method to kill only the canes you don't want is to go around
with a small paint brush and a bottle of roundup. Touching one or two
leaves with the paintbrush, dipped in straight roundup, is usually
enough to kill the cane. I do this mostly with poison ivy,
and after several years my 4 oz bottle of Roundup is still more than
half full.

they're actually quite easy to tell apart. as far as i can tell, the
himalaya have green three leaf clusters and grow in a great bushy mass, the
cascade have reddish multi-lobed leaves (at least they're red later in the
summer), and trail on single vines through the himalaya bushes.
thimbleberries have fuzzy leaves that look like maple leaves, and grow in
tall canes. i may try this selective roundup idea, but i fear it could take
years.


not true. When you touch a leaf, the whole cane goes (try to do it
when the weather forecast is no rain, else it could wash off). Unless
you have tens of thousands of square feet... one thing to keep in mind
is that this method keeps the area shaded (as the good canes continue
to grow and prevent seeds from taking). If you were to weedwhack the
patch, you would lose the good guys AND himalayas would come back. You
are just helping the good guys win the competition. If you decide to
do it, now is the best time, with a second tour in a month to finish
off those that escaped the first round. Next year in the spring you
should be able to see the shoots from the roots that survived. Hit
those as well. After all, you can turn a field of weeds into a lawn
just by mowing.

"Pam - gardengal" wrote in message
news:zC9ic.8026$cF6.378079@attbi_s04...
Himalayan blackberries are pervasive in all parts of the PNW, so know that
you are not alone in this plight.. You need to maintain a buffer zone
between the "natural growth" area and the cultivated portion of your
garden
by keeping the blackberries cut back and nothing planted for at least 6
feet. If you could fence off the area, that would help considerably, but
if
that is not possible, routinely maintaining this open space will prevent
the
encroachment of the vines onto your property.

i'm not interested in fencing it, but the open space idea has inspired me a
bit... i'm starting to invision a border strip of small rocks... hmm,
i'll have to think more about this. thanks!


Dealing with the shoots that pop up is another matter. Birds (and no doubt
the new construction activity) spread the seeds which can germinate years
after ripening and falling. If you routinely remove or treat with a
brush-killing herbicide, you will get them under control. 'Blackberry and
Brush Blocker' is an acetic acid based formulation that has proven
effective. It temporarily changes the soil pH so that growth is stifled,
but
this will apply to any vegetation in the area. Use it BEFORE you plant
anything ornamental in this area. The plants must be in active growth and
it
can take upto 6 months of periodic treatment. The soil will also need to
be
neutralized before replanting (use lime and a soil test).

this sounds like it will kill any chance of having a lawn this year. :-) i
really need some grass or something out back. otherwise the yard is all mud
and my dogs get filthy. will any grasses stand up to this treatment? it
doesn't need to be a beautiful bluegrass lawn, we've currently got a pasture
mix out there (ryegrass, fescues and red clover).

Otherwise,
non-specific herbicides like RoundUp or Finale painted full strength on
the
emerging shoots will help.

this has been our weapon so far. we've gone through three gallons of
roundup this month.


The good news is you have a ready source of delicious berries right off
your
backyard. As unpleasant and weedy as the vines may be, the berries in
August
are hard to beat - just think of all those pies, jams and cobblers you can
make!

this is what i keep telling myself. that and the brambles make a decent
deer barrier.

-kelly