The definitions people are "throwing about" certainly do have meaning. You
just don't know what they are.

Janet's daffynitions will suffice.

Eat all the cake you want.
We will keep the bread for ourselves!


"Travis" wrote in message
news:eqn0e.23327$oa6.7199@trnddc07...
Cereus-validus..... wrote:
Do you know how to do a Google search, Travis?

Of course I do. The definitions people are throwing about have no
meaning. If I said I liked cake how much does that tell you?

Your friend Janet Baraclough gave these defanitions:

" Humus is (relatively recently) decayed living material such as
plant/bacterial/animal material, the stuff you get out of a compost heap
or find on the floor surface of woodland, made of decayed leaves,
decayed animal corpses and faeces etc.

Loam is a variable combination of humus plus particles of geological
elements. Geological elements are stuff like sands, chalk, clay, grits;
their origin is far more ancient than humus. "

How precise is that? About as precise as the definition of "topsoil"
given here in this group.

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 5

"Travis" wrote in message
news:d%g0e.23205$oa6.1581@trnddc07...
Cereus-validus..... wrote:
Here we go again.

"Top soil" is ANYTHING that makes up the surface layer of the soil
and does not have any specific chemical or biological composition.
It can be good for growing plants or it could be toxic. Buying
"top soil" is buying a "pig in a poke". You may not only be
wasting your money but you can actually be doing damage to your
garden by using it.
If you instead buy "humus", "loam" or "peat", you know exactly
what you are getting and how to use it.

Please define humus and loam. Who sets the standard for them and
who enforces that standard?

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 5


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message ghY%d.22081$oa6.14080@trnddc07
from "Travis" contains
these words:
The name "top soil" has no meaning.

It's a well-known term throughout Europe, meaning the fertile
layer above subsoil. When people here buy/sell a lorry-load of
soil for horticultural use, it's normal to specify topsoil.

Janet.

You know what's funny? Actually, you *do* know this: In 30 years of
gardening, in 4 different locations, every time I've loosened the existing
soil with a pitch fork, and applied generous amounts of mulch (usually
chopped leaves, lawn clippings, and/or straw), 3 months later, I have soil
I'm happy with. I'll qualify this by saying that I've never had to deal with
really awful clay soil. But still....sometimes it doesn't take much, other
than a little patience. Unfortunately, many people want to pay their money
and have instant results.

"Cereus-validus....." wrote in message
om...
I am not recommending tha anyone use peat nor any other soil additive. My
point is that when you purchase peat you know exactly what you are getting.

If you are foolish enough to buy "top soil", you could be getting anything
under the sun, including something toxic that could do actual damage to
your garden!!!


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
In the hands of a beginner, actual "peat" can produce results ranging
from "hmmm...." to "disaster". By "beginner", I'm referring to the
ever-increasing legions of people who don't seem to know what a library
is, and how to plan far enough ahead to have time to read a book or two,
or (heaven forbid) locate a real garden center run by grizzled old people
who actually know what they're talking about.

"Cereus-validus....." wrote in message
m...
Here we go again.

"Top soil" is ANYTHING that makes up the surface layer of the soil and
does not have any specific chemical or biological composition. It can be
good for growing plants or it could be toxic. Buying "top soil" is
buying a "pig in a poke". You may not only be wasting your money but you
can actually be doing damage to your garden by using it.

If you instead buy "humus", "loam" or "peat", you know exactly what you
are getting and how to use it.


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message ghY%d.22081$oa6.14080@trnddc07
from "Travis" contains these
words:

The name "top soil" has no meaning.

It's a well-known term throughout Europe, meaning the fertile layer
above subsoil. When people here buy/sell a lorry-load of soil for
horticultural use, it's normal to specify topsoil.

Janet.

"Travis" wrote in message
news:eqn0e.23327$oa6.7199@trnddc07...
Cereus-validus..... wrote:
Do you know how to do a Google search, Travis?

Of course I do. The definitions people are throwing about have no
meaning. If I said I liked cake how much does that tell you?

Your friend Janet Baraclough gave these defanitions:

" Humus is (relatively recently) decayed living material such as
plant/bacterial/animal material, the stuff you get out of a compost heap
or find on the floor surface of woodland, made of decayed leaves,
decayed animal corpses and faeces etc.

Loam is a variable combination of humus plus particles of geological
elements. Geological elements are stuff like sands, chalk, clay, grits;
their origin is far more ancient than humus. "

How precise is that? About as precise as the definition of "topsoil"
given here in this group.

Sigh.....

Two days after a nice steady rain, you take a handful of soil and squeeze
it. Then, you break it up. If it crumbles like cake, it's well within the
realm of "structurally OK". It may still need nutrients or pH adjustment,
but that's another issue which has nothing to do with this one. Do you see
lots of happy little bugs and/or worms? Reason to celebrate.

Why does everything have to be so complicated?

Cool your jets, Janet.

We are talking about soil not your loose morals.


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message eqn0e.23327$oa6.7199@trnddc07
from "Travis" contains these words:


How precise is that?

Travis, I replied to you in good faith and am doing so now. If you
are experiencing a genuine, new difficulty recognising common garden
terms and comprehending simple explanations, please consult your doctor
asap. Such symptoms combined with irrationality, sometimes precede a
stroke.

Janet.

Meanwhile, the best garden I ever had was in Aquabogue (out near Riverhead),
about 2 blocks from the water. Pure sand. But, the owner of my rented house
was constantly stopping by with fresh fish and nagging me to bury the parts
we didn't eat. I had corn 350 feet high, and that is no exaggeration. We had
to charter a helicopter to harvest it. The pumpkin vines abducted several
neighborhood children.

"escape" wrote in message
news
Actually, I didn't know I'd ever say this, but after having gardened on
Long
Island for most of my life, it seemed this Texas clay would be awful. Now
that
I've been gardening in clay for 12 years I can honestly say it is superior
to
sandy soils, has far better structure and overall texture after it is
moistened,
loosened and amended with organic matter. A nice thick layer of mulch
helps
preserve the organic matter till you develop your own OM in the form of
worm
castings, and other microbial activity.

So, I'll say it, I much prefer my clay soil over the sandy soil I had on
Long
Island.


On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:00:22 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

opined:

You know what's funny? Actually, you *do* know this: In 30 years of
gardening, in 4 different locations, every time I've loosened the existing
soil with a pitch fork, and applied generous amounts of mulch (usually
chopped leaves, lawn clippings, and/or straw), 3 months later, I have soil
I'm happy with. I'll qualify this by saying that I've never had to deal
with
really awful clay soil. But still....sometimes it doesn't take much, other
than a little patience. Unfortunately, many people want to pay their money
and have instant results.

"Cereus-validus....." wrote in message
.com...
I am not recommending tha anyone use peat nor any other soil additive. My
point is that when you purchase peat you know exactly what you are
getting.

If you are foolish enough to buy "top soil", you could be getting
anything
under the sun, including something toxic that could do actual damage to
your garden!!!


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
In the hands of a beginner, actual "peat" can produce results ranging
from "hmmm...." to "disaster". By "beginner", I'm referring to the
ever-increasing legions of people who don't seem to know what a library
is, and how to plan far enough ahead to have time to read a book or
two,
or (heaven forbid) locate a real garden center run by grizzled old
people
who actually know what they're talking about.

"Cereus-validus....." wrote in message
m...
Here we go again.

"Top soil" is ANYTHING that makes up the surface layer of the soil and
does not have any specific chemical or biological composition. It can
be
good for growing plants or it could be toxic. Buying "top soil" is
buying a "pig in a poke". You may not only be wasting your money but
you
can actually be doing damage to your garden by using it.

If you instead buy "humus", "loam" or "peat", you know exactly what
you
are getting and how to use it.


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message ghY%d.22081$oa6.14080@trnddc07
from "Travis" contains these
words:

The name "top soil" has no meaning.

It's a well-known term throughout Europe, meaning the fertile layer
above subsoil. When people here buy/sell a lorry-load of soil for
horticultural use, it's normal to specify topsoil.

Janet.













Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for yourself or a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

"escape" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:00:22 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

opined:


Sigh.....

Two days after a nice steady rain, you take a handful of soil and squeeze
it. Then, you break it up. If it crumbles like cake, it's well within the
realm of "structurally OK". It may still need nutrients or pH adjustment,
but that's another issue which has nothing to do with this one. Do you see
lots of happy little bugs and/or worms? Reason to celebrate.

Why does everything have to be so complicated?


I think you mean texture. Structure is the mineral content of the soil and
the
level of organic matter. Texture describes crumble.

Structure and texture both sound like mechanical qualities to me. Mineral
content sounds like a chemical quality. Oh well.

Structure and texture both sound like mechanical qualities to me.
Mineral
content sounds like a chemical quality.

Soil "texture" refers to the size of the particles in a mineral soil.
It is a basic property, not readilly subject to change.
Mineral soil is composed of small particles:
sand 2mm-0.05mm
silt 0.05-o.002mm
clay less than 0.002mm
Loam is a mixture of almost equal parts of each.

"structure" refers to the grouping and arrangement of these soil
particles.
Particles form aggregates or granules aided by "humus" a sticky gel
like substance formed by decompostition of OM. Humus binds the
particles together to form "crumbs". There are spaces between the
crumbs called "pores" or pore space, occupied by air and water.
Good soils are said to have "good crumb"

So I would say that your are correct, Doug.

Emilie
NorCal
I got this info from a soil text when I did a presentation to the
garden club.

"mleblanca" wrote in message
oups.com...
Structure and texture both sound like mechanical qualities to me.
Mineral
content sounds like a chemical quality.

Soil "texture" refers to the size of the particles in a mineral soil.
It is a basic property, not readilly subject to change.
Mineral soil is composed of small particles:
sand 2mm-0.05mm
silt 0.05-o.002mm
clay less than 0.002mm
Loam is a mixture of almost equal parts of each.

"structure" refers to the grouping and arrangement of these soil
particles.
Particles form aggregates or granules aided by "humus" a sticky gel
like substance formed by decompostition of OM. Humus binds the
particles together to form "crumbs". There are spaces between the
crumbs called "pores" or pore space, occupied by air and water.
Good soils are said to have "good crumb"

So I would say that your are correct, Doug.

Emilie
NorCal
I got this info from a soil text when I did a presentation to the
garden club.


Thank you. I just garden. I don't define things in gardening any more than
in making love. The approach works.

In the hands of a beginner, actual "peat" can produce results ranging from
"hmmm...." to "disaster". By "beginner", I'm referring to the
ever-increasing legions of people who don't seem to know what a library is,
and how to plan far enough ahead to have time to read a book or two, or
(heaven forbid) locate a real garden center run by grizzled old people who
actually know what they're talking about.

"Cereus-validus....." wrote in message
m...
Here we go again.

"Top soil" is ANYTHING that makes up the surface layer of the soil and
does not have any specific chemical or biological composition. It can be
good for growing plants or it could be toxic. Buying "top soil" is buying
a "pig in a poke". You may not only be wasting your money but you can
actually be doing damage to your garden by using it.

If you instead buy "humus", "loam" or "peat", you know exactly what you
are getting and how to use it.


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message ghY%d.22081$oa6.14080@trnddc07
from "Travis" contains these words:

The name "top soil" has no meaning.

It's a well-known term throughout Europe, meaning the fertile layer
above subsoil. When people here buy/sell a lorry-load of soil for
horticultural use, it's normal to specify topsoil.

Janet.

In the hands of a beginner, actual "peat" can produce results ranging from
"hmmm...." to "disaster". By "beginner", I'm referring to the
ever-increasing legions of people who don't seem to know what a library is,
and how to plan far enough ahead to have time to read a book or two, or
(heaven forbid) locate a real garden center run by grizzled old people who
actually know what they're talking about.

"Cereus-validus....." wrote in message
m...
Here we go again.

"Top soil" is ANYTHING that makes up the surface layer of the soil and
does not have any specific chemical or biological composition. It can be
good for growing plants or it could be toxic. Buying "top soil" is buying
a "pig in a poke". You may not only be wasting your money but you can
actually be doing damage to your garden by using it.

If you instead buy "humus", "loam" or "peat", you know exactly what you
are getting and how to use it.


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message ghY%d.22081$oa6.14080@trnddc07
from "Travis" contains these words:

The name "top soil" has no meaning.

It's a well-known term throughout Europe, meaning the fertile layer
above subsoil. When people here buy/sell a lorry-load of soil for
horticultural use, it's normal to specify topsoil.

Janet.

In the hands of a beginner, actual "peat" can produce results ranging from
"hmmm...." to "disaster". By "beginner", I'm referring to the
ever-increasing legions of people who don't seem to know what a library is,
and how to plan far enough ahead to have time to read a book or two, or
(heaven forbid) locate a real garden center run by grizzled old people who
actually know what they're talking about.

"Cereus-validus....." wrote in message
m...
Here we go again.

"Top soil" is ANYTHING that makes up the surface layer of the soil and
does not have any specific chemical or biological composition. It can be
good for growing plants or it could be toxic. Buying "top soil" is buying
a "pig in a poke". You may not only be wasting your money but you can
actually be doing damage to your garden by using it.

If you instead buy "humus", "loam" or "peat", you know exactly what you
are getting and how to use it.


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message ghY%d.22081$oa6.14080@trnddc07
from "Travis" contains these words:

The name "top soil" has no meaning.

It's a well-known term throughout Europe, meaning the fertile layer
above subsoil. When people here buy/sell a lorry-load of soil for
horticultural use, it's normal to specify topsoil.

Janet.