In article , "Warren"
wrote:

John Thomas wrote:
I realize they're pretty plants and are a blast to have around if you like
watching insects, but given it's vigor, flowering rates, overall
hardiness and
other traits, why doesn't buddleia strike people as a potentially dangerous
plant?

Why in god's name would anyone dump something like this into the
environment?
(If this was GMO corn, people would be burning down fabric mills in
anger. :-)


http://www.usna.usda.gov/Gardens/invasives.html


Butterfly bush is not invasive. As the first sentence in the link you
provided
states, "An invasive plant has the ability to thrive and spread aggressively
outside its natural range." That means you plant one or two, and
eventually you
get dozens spreading from the originally intended spot. Butterfly bushes
don't
do that.

Butterfly bush is a very aggressive grower. A single plant can go from
not much
more than a stick with a couple of leaves to a bush big enough to hide a
small
shack in just a few months. But you won't have a dozen new butterfly bushes.

It's a very aggressive grower, but it's not the least bit invasive.

Who told you dat?

As one of the top-twenty invasive pest-plants in England, its potential to
do harm should perhaps be taken more seriously in the USA too. The USDA's
Farm Service Agency's list of common invasive plants in the United States
includes B. davidii, & in my region, the Washington State Noxious Weed
Control Board reported of B. davidii:

"It has escaped cultivation, invading roadsides, riparian areas, pastures,
river gravel bars and other disturbed areas. It is noted to form dense
thickets and may exclude native vegetation.* Butterfly bush produces large
quantities of wind and water dispersed seeds (up to 3 million seeds per
plant), which can remain dormant in the soil for many years. When cut
down, it resprouts readily from the rootstock and can be propagated
through cuttings.* Butterfly bush has been noted to reach maturity in less
than one year, allowing it to spread quickly.* Although this plant is
touted as a beneficial plant for butterflies, it is not noted to be used
as a butterfly host plant and may displace the native plants needed by
butterflies for reproduction.* This plant has also become invasive in
Europe, Australia and New Zealand. In New Zealand it is estimated that the
weed pest is displacing valued native species and is reported to be
costing the forestry industry $0.5 to 2.9 million annually in control and
lost production."

It is interesting to note that it has NOT been found to be a butterfly
host plant for northwest butterfly species, so one of its most touted
"values" is not true for all regions, if any.

It is presently at the worry-stage that what is already a major pest-plant
in England & New Zealand will eventually be the same in many regions of
the United States. Barring the development of sterile cultivars, I would
expect the butterfly bush to begin showing up regionally on US lists of
banned noxious pest plants within the decade, & possibly within two or
three years, as this year the
Washington State Nursery & Landscape Associations's Invasive Taskforce
began a study to further assess the Noxious Weed Control Board's
assessment, & if the reports continue to go as badly as they've gone so
far, Buddleia will be added to the growing list of illegal plants.

-paghat the ratgirl
--
Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he
http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden
people maintaining a free civil government." -Thomas Jefferson

Warren wrote:
John Thomas wrote:
I realize they're pretty plants and are a blast to have around if
you like watching insects, but given it's vigor, flowering rates,
overall hardiness and other traits, why doesn't buddleia strike
people as a potentially dangerous plant?

Why in god's name would anyone dump something like this into the
environment? (If this was GMO corn, people would be burning down
fabric mills in anger. :-)
http://www.usna.usda.gov/Gardens/invasives.html


Butterfly bush is not invasive. As the first sentence in the link
you provided states, "An invasive plant has the ability to thrive
and spread aggressively outside its natural range." That means you
plant one or two, and eventually you get dozens spreading from the
originally intended spot. Butterfly bushes don't do that.

Butterfly bush is a very aggressive grower. A single plant can go
from not much more than a stick with a couple of leaves to a bush
big enough to hide a small shack in just a few months. But you
won't have a dozen new butterfly bushes.
It's a very aggressive grower, but it's not the least bit invasive.

You want to get rid of it? Just dig up the one plant, and you're
done with it. It doesn't send out runners. It doesn't reseed. It
won't come back from that little bit of root you missed.

Buddleia davidii is a Class "C" weed on the Washington State Noxious
Weed List. http://www.nwcb.wa.gov/weed_list/weed_list.classc.html

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 5

Warren wrote:
John Thomas wrote:
I realize they're pretty plants and are a blast to have around if
you like watching insects, but given it's vigor, flowering rates,
overall hardiness and other traits, why doesn't buddleia strike
people as a potentially dangerous plant?

Why in god's name would anyone dump something like this into the
environment? (If this was GMO corn, people would be burning down
fabric mills in anger. :-)


http://www.usna.usda.gov/Gardens/invasives.html


Butterfly bush is not invasive. As the first sentence in the link
you provided states, "An invasive plant has the ability to thrive
and spread aggressively outside its natural range." That means you
plant one or two, and eventually you get dozens spreading from the
originally intended spot. Butterfly bushes don't do that.

Butterfly bush is a very aggressive grower. A single plant can go
from not much more than a stick with a couple of leaves to a bush
big enough to hide a small shack in just a few months. But you
won't have a dozen new butterfly bushes.

It's a very aggressive grower, but it's not the least bit invasive.

You want to get rid of it? Just dig up the one plant, and you're
done with it. It doesn't send out runners. It doesn't reseed. It
won't come back from that little bit of root you missed.

It reseeds like crazy in my neck of the woods.

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 5

(paghat) expounded:

B. davidii is in the top-20 invasive pest-plants in England. It has never
been given such a high pest status in the USA, as it is believed to share
the environment rather than displace native species, a debatable premise.
There is no question but that it is long naturalized on both coasts.

It is only marginally hardy here, and I've never seen one reseed. But
that's just this area, I can't speak for others.

--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

John Thomas wrote:
Warren wrote:

Butterfly bush is not invasive. As the first sentence in the link you
provided states, "An invasive plant has the ability to thrive and spread
aggressively outside its natural range." That means you plant one or two, and
eventually you get dozens spreading from the originally intended spot.
Butterfly bushes don't do that.

Butterfly bush is a very aggressive grower. A single plant can go from not
much more than a stick with a couple of leaves to a bush big enough to hide a
small shack in just a few months. But you won't have a dozen new butterfly
bushes.

It's a very aggressive grower, but it's not the least bit invasive.

Wrong on all counts. With many varieties, it definitely spreads, reseeds, and
it certainly considered an invasive pest in many areas.

Then we must be talking about an entirely different plant.

I have two in my backyard. I had one in my front yard. My neighbor has a couple
as well. We don't have any invasion from these plants. Both of our backyards
were next to what was a vacant lot until a year and a half ago, and there were
none of these back there.

They've very popular plants in landscapes around here, yet I do not see them
anywhere in the uncultivated areas.

I had to hunt to find a picture of mine, but here's one:
http://www.holzemville.com/1/DSCF0662.jpg


--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
We're down to the wire. Do you need tax software?
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/taxes/index.html

"Travis" wrote in message
news:TG%0e.9520$uw6.974@trnddc06...
Warren wrote:
John Thomas wrote:
I realize they're pretty plants and are a blast to have around if
you like watching insects, but given it's vigor, flowering rates,
overall hardiness and other traits, why doesn't buddleia strike
people as a potentially dangerous plant?

Why in god's name would anyone dump something like this into the
environment? (If this was GMO corn, people would be burning down
fabric mills in anger. :-)
http://www.usna.usda.gov/Gardens/invasives.html


Butterfly bush is not invasive. As the first sentence in the link
you provided states, "An invasive plant has the ability to thrive
and spread aggressively outside its natural range." That means you
plant one or two, and eventually you get dozens spreading from the
originally intended spot. Butterfly bushes don't do that.

Butterfly bush is a very aggressive grower. A single plant can go
from not much more than a stick with a couple of leaves to a bush
big enough to hide a small shack in just a few months. But you
won't have a dozen new butterfly bushes. It's a very aggressive grower,
but it's not the least bit invasive.

You want to get rid of it? Just dig up the one plant, and you're
done with it. It doesn't send out runners. It doesn't reseed. It
won't come back from that little bit of root you missed.

It reseeds like crazy in my neck of the woods.

Some plants are unbelievably picky about the environment they're grown in,
in order to REALLY hit their stride. Take rosemary as an example. Looks like
it's tough as nails when it's growing happily. But, bring it indoors for the
winter (and I mean REAL winter, as in Maine straight west to Montana), and
rosemary sulks or drops dead. Look at the same plant in its native
environment and it's unstoppable. Perhaps buddleia likes the humidity in
Washington, and even if the temps were identical all year to those in, say,
upstate NY, it would still want that humidity. Or something.

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Warren" contains these words:
. It doesn't reseed.

Are you kidding? Buddleia seeds all over the place. Tall derelict
buildings here have 8ft seedlings growing in the roof gutters and
chimneys; railways spend a fortune clearing miles of buddeia seedlings
from track-sides. After the wartime blitzes in UK cities, buddleia was
one of the plants that colonised the bombsites.

I still love it.

Janet (UK)

Sounds like what Travis just said about Washington. Not sure WHERE in
Washington he's from, so I don't know if it's like Minnesota or upstate NY,
where, in winter, the wind sucks the life out of everything. Even
automobiles have been known to shrivel up.

"Ann" wrote in message
...
(paghat) expounded:

B. davidii is in the top-20 invasive pest-plants in England. It has never
been given such a high pest status in the USA, as it is believed to share
the environment rather than displace native species, a debatable premise.
There is no question but that it is long naturalized on both coasts.

It is only marginally hardy here, and I've never seen one reseed. But
that's just this area, I can't speak for others.

--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

Marginally hardy south of Boston??? The plant does fine here (Rochester NY),
where the winter makes yours look like a trip to a day spa. What sort of
miniclimates do you have around your house?

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Travis" wrote in message
news:TG%0e.9520$uw6.974@trnddc06...
Warren wrote:
John Thomas wrote:
I realize they're pretty plants and are a blast to have around if
you like watching insects, but given it's vigor, flowering rates,
overall hardiness and other traits, why doesn't buddleia strike
people as a potentially dangerous plant?

Why in god's name would anyone dump something like this into the
environment? (If this was GMO corn, people would be burning down
fabric mills in anger. :-)
http://www.usna.usda.gov/Gardens/invasives.html


Butterfly bush is not invasive. As the first sentence in the link
you provided states, "An invasive plant has the ability to thrive
and spread aggressively outside its natural range." That means you
plant one or two, and eventually you get dozens spreading from the
originally intended spot. Butterfly bushes don't do that.

Butterfly bush is a very aggressive grower. A single plant can go
from not much more than a stick with a couple of leaves to a bush
big enough to hide a small shack in just a few months. But you
won't have a dozen new butterfly bushes. It's a very aggressive
grower, but it's not the least bit invasive.

You want to get rid of it? Just dig up the one plant, and you're
done with it. It doesn't send out runners. It doesn't reseed. It
won't come back from that little bit of root you missed.

It reseeds like crazy in my neck of the woods.

Some plants are unbelievably picky about the environment they're
grown in, in order to REALLY hit their stride. Take rosemary as an
example. Looks like it's tough as nails when it's growing happily.
But, bring it indoors for the winter (and I mean REAL winter, as in
Maine straight west to Montana), and rosemary sulks or drops dead.
Look at the same plant in its native environment and it's
unstoppable. Perhaps buddleia likes the humidity in Washington, and
even if the temps were identical all year to those in, say, upstate
NY, it would still want that humidity. Or something.

We don't have what you would call humid weather.

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 5

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Warren" contains these words:
. It doesn't reseed.

Are you kidding? Buddleia seeds all over the place. Tall derelict
buildings here have 8ft seedlings growing in the roof gutters and
chimneys; railways spend a fortune clearing miles of buddeia
seedlings from track-sides. After the wartime blitzes in UK
cities, buddleia was one of the plants that colonised the
bombsites.

I still love it.

Janet (UK)

Sounds like what Travis just said about Washington. Not sure WHERE
in Washington he's from, so I don't know if it's like Minnesota or
upstate NY, where, in winter, the wind sucks the life out of
everything. Even automobiles have been known to shrivel up.

I'm where my sig says I am.

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 5

"Doug Kanter" mentioned:
Perhaps buddleia likes the humidity in Washington, and even if the
temps were identical all year to those in, say, upstate NY, it would
still want that humidity. Or something.

"Travis" explained from the rainforests of Washington and Vancouver:
We don't have what you would call humid weather.

g It's not humid. It just rains 9 out of 10 days of a week?

--
Jim Carlock
Please post replies to newsgroup.

Jim Carlock wrote:
"Doug Kanter" mentioned:
Perhaps buddleia likes the humidity in Washington, and even if the
temps were identical all year to those in, say, upstate NY, it
would still want that humidity. Or something.

"Travis" explained from the rainforests of Washington and Vancouver:
We don't have what you would call humid weather.

g It's not humid. It just rains 9 out of 10 days of a week?

The rain forests are on the Olympic Peninsula.
http://www.nps.gov/olym/edurain.htm

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 5

"Doug Kanter" expounded:

Marginally hardy south of Boston??? The plant does fine here (Rochester NY),
where the winter makes yours look like a trip to a day spa. What sort of
miniclimates do you have around your house?

The constant warming/frost, etc. causes them to start growing too
early, then they get caught by a hard freeze and it kills them. You
stay more consistently cool until you warm. Big difference.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

"Travis" wrote in message
news:L841e.10412$uw6.5991@trnddc06...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Warren" contains these words:
. It doesn't reseed.

Are you kidding? Buddleia seeds all over the place. Tall derelict
buildings here have 8ft seedlings growing in the roof gutters and
chimneys; railways spend a fortune clearing miles of buddeia
seedlings from track-sides. After the wartime blitzes in UK
cities, buddleia was one of the plants that colonised the
bombsites. I still love it.

Janet (UK)

Sounds like what Travis just said about Washington. Not sure WHERE
in Washington he's from, so I don't know if it's like Minnesota or
upstate NY, where, in winter, the wind sucks the life out of
everything. Even automobiles have been known to shrivel up.

I'm where my sig says I am.

Amazing. It was printed right there. :-) So, does winter shrivel up
automobiles where you live, or is the weather somewhat tempered by the
proximity of the ocean?

"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" expounded:

Marginally hardy south of Boston??? The plant does fine here (Rochester
NY),
where the winter makes yours look like a trip to a day spa. What sort of
miniclimates do you have around your house?

The constant warming/frost, etc. causes them to start growing too
early, then they get caught by a hard freeze and it kills them. You
stay more consistently cool until you warm. Big difference.

Mulch!!! Use whatever you've got. Straw, leaves, dead carcasses of
neighbors' dogs. Anything.