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#46
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Global warming my ass!
z wrote:
On Dec 26, 12:37 pm, Art wrote: z wrote: On Dec 19, 9:47 am, "Ryan P." wrote: That's half false. Obviously, global warming occurs. However, nothing approaching a majority of scientists agree that HUMANS are the *main* factor. Well, as long as we're talking SCIENCE here, I assume you have quantitative data. So, what estimated percentage of "scientists agree that HUMANS are the *main* factor"? (of course, you can just point us towards the reference for the study which determined the number.) Just about the same percentage that are getting gov't money to research it. Yep, just exactly the "rightwing scientific" answer I was looking for. So, moving on in this direction of rightwing "facts", I'd love to hear how the grant process goes. I mean, nobody "researches global warming"; they just research CO2 levels in ice cores, etc. So, how do you apply for a grant to show global warming? The grant applications just say you're going to measure CO2 levels in ice cores, they don't say which direction you're going to find things, do you have to put that in a separate cover letter? Then, is that legally binding, so that they sue you to give them money back if you publish results that don't show global warming? It's important that the public know these things, don't you think? So you should let us in on the secrets, rather than keep them to yourself. Common sense says it's crap. I've been around a while and in just my lifetime - Nuclear war was gonna destroy the planet; then the ozone hole was gonna kill us all; now it's global warming. 10 years from now there will be a new doomsday theory. There have been people that claim "the end is near" as far back as recorded history and they all have one thing in common. They were wrong. Many people just don't believe them anymore and I'm one of them. Has nothing to do with right or left wing. Even if man is causing an "unnatural" rise in CO2, nature has an incredible ability to bring things back into balance. There is little if anything that man can do to this planet that nature hasn't done on a much larger scale. -- Art |
#47
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Global warming my ass!
On Dec 26, 9:48*pm, Art wrote:
z wrote: On Dec 26, 12:37 pm, Art wrote: z wrote: On Dec 19, 9:47 am, "Ryan P." wrote: * That's half false. *Obviously, global warming occurs. *However, nothing approaching a majority of scientists agree that HUMANS are the *main* factor. Well, as long as we're talking SCIENCE here, I assume you have quantitative data. So, what estimated percentage of "scientists agree that HUMANS are the *main* factor"? (of course, you can just point us towards the reference for the study which determined the number.) Just about the same percentage that are getting gov't money to research it. Yep, just exactly the "rightwing scientific" answer I was looking for. So, moving on in this direction of rightwing "facts", I'd love to hear how the grant process goes. I mean, nobody "researches global warming"; they just research CO2 levels in ice cores, etc. So, how do you apply for a grant to show global warming? The grant applications just say you're going to measure CO2 levels in ice cores, they don't say which direction you're going to find things, do you have to put that in a separate cover letter? Then, is that legally binding, so that they sue you to give them money back if you publish results that don't show global warming? It's important that the public know these things, don't you think? So you should let us in on the secrets, rather than keep them to yourself. Common sense says it's crap. I've been around a while and in just my lifetime - Nuclear war was gonna destroy the planet; then the ozone hole was gonna kill us all; now it's global warming. 10 years from now there will be a new doomsday theory. There have been people that claim "the end is near" as far back as recorded history and they all have one thing in common. They were wrong. Many people just don't believe them anymore and I'm one of them. Has nothing to do with right or left wing. Even if man is causing an "unnatural" rise in CO2, nature has an incredible ability to bring things back into balance. There is little if anything that man can do to this planet that nature hasn't done on a much larger scale. Oh, I'm not worried about the planet. I'm worried about my kids. They're not nearly as sturdy as the planet. |
#48
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Global warming my ass!
On Dec 26, 4:49 pm, "Ryan P."
wrote: z wrote: Oh that's easy. Whatever climate happens as a random byproduct of big companies doing stuff to maximize profit without having to deal with the end/waste products, is perfect. Otherwise, you're a socialist and want to destroy the US. . . The difference is that you, as a "left wing" person (this is an assumption, as you love using the term "right wing" in a negative manner), seem much more willing to accuse anybody who disagrees with you of being involved in some sort of "pro business, only money matters" conspiracy. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe there are people that doubt that the world is going to become a wasteland in 20 years because a good portion of the environmentalist propaganda had been proven to be lies? We've already discussed the disappearing polar bear fiasco. We've also seen links to independent studies that show rapid temperature change (14 degrees F in less than 100 years) has happened in the past. Not to mention the media seems to love trotting out Al Gore's movie as documented proof of Global Warming, but its already legally been shown to contain MANY half-truths and outright lies. So maybe when you can point to INDEPENDENT studies (those not funded by the oil companies, and those not funded by conservation organizations), people will be less suspicious. The rightwing in general is a morass of lies and falsehoods. They dont' even deny it; did you forget the "reality-based community" remark? The rightwing weren't claiming to be part of it, they were stating they had transcended it. See; you think "a good portion of the environmentalist propaganda had been proven to be lies" then post a bunch of points to prove it, that are all themselves "lies". 1) "disappearing polar bear fiasco" Polar Bear Survival Rate Falls as Climate Warms By Yereth Rosen Reuters Thursday 16 November 2006 Anchorage - Polar bear cubs in Alaska's Beaufort Sea are much less likely to survive compared to about 20 years ago, probably due to melting sea ice caused by global warming, a study released Wednesday said. The study, published by the US Geological Survey, estimated that only 43 percent of polar bear cubs in the southern Beaufort Sea survived their first year during the past five years, compared to a 65 percent survival rate in the late 1980s and early 1990s. "The changes in survival of cubs are very dramatic," said the study's author Steven Amstrup, polar bear project leader for the USGS Alaska Science Center. The falling survival rate comes as a warming climate has melted much of the sea ice off Alaska's northern coast, limiting polar bears from hunting for food at the ice's edge, Amstrup said. "The things we're observing are consistent with a population that is undergoing nutritional stress," said Amstrup. "We can't say definitively it's because of changes in the sea ice, but we don't know what else it would be." The study also found that adult male polar bears captured after 1990 were smaller than those captured before then. Canadian researchers have been studying the western Hudson Bay polar bear population for more than 30 years and have seen the condition of the bears decline. "Condition" is quantified with a formula that includes the bears' length and weight--it's very similar to the body mass index (BMI) used for humans. ... From the early 1980s to the early 2000s, Lunn says, the condition of female polar bears in western Hudson Bay has declined by 15 to 20 percent. "The bears come ashore in poor condition because they haven't had as much opportunity to feed, and we're asking them to turn around and go into their fasting state earlier," Derocher says. "It's a double-edged sword; they're being cut on both sides." http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Publicatio...polarbears.cfm Future Retreat of Arctic Sea Ice Will Lower Polar Bear Populations and Limit Their Distribution Released: 9/7/2007 2:48:28 PM U.S. Department of the Interior, U.S. Geological Survey Office of Communication Future reduction of sea ice in the Arctic could result in a loss of 2/3 of the world's polar bear population within 50 years according to a series of studies released today by the U.S. Geological Survey. The scientists concluded that, while the bears were not likely to be driven to extinction, they would be largely relegated to the Arctic archipelago of Canada and spots off the northern Greenland coast, where summer sea ice tends to persist even in warm summers like this one, a shrinking that could be enough to reduce the bear population by two-thirds. The bears would disappear entirely from Alaska, the study said. "As the sea ice goes, so goes the polar bear," said Steven Amstrup, lead biologist for the survey team. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/08/sc...ce&oref=slogin Newly-released USGS information from 9 recent studies presents relationships of polar bears to present and future sea ice environments. http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/special/polar%5Fbears/ But.... you have political science professor Bjorn Lomborg telling you that polar bears are actually thriving, and anyway they can evolve back into brown bears... therefore all the above are "proven [no less] to be lies". 2) "independent studies that show rapid temperature change (14 degrees F in less than 100 years) has happened in the past. " Right.... "1. ~15,000 yrs ago, sudden climatic warming (~12° C; ~21° F) caused dramatic melting of large Ice Age ice sheets 2. A few centuries later, temperatures plummeted (~11° ; ~20° F). 3. ~14,000 yrs ago, global temperatures increased (~4.5°C; ~8° F). 4. ~13,400 yrs ago, global temperatures plunged (~8°C; ~14° F) 5. ~13,200 yrs ago, global temperatures rose rapidly (~5°C; ~9° F) 6. 12,700 yrs ago global temperatures plunged sharply (~8°C; ~14°) F) at the start of the Younger Dryas. 7. 11,500 yrs ago, global temperatures rose sharply (~12° C; ~21°F) marking the end of the Younger Dryas. 8. 8,200 yrs ago, a sudden global cooling (~4° C; ~7° F) lasted a few centuries. 9. ~1000 AD, global temperatures rose several degrees to begin the Medieval Warm Period, which lasted a few centuries, then ~1230 AD dropped ~4°C (~7° F) in ~20 years. 10. ~1600 AD, global temperatures cooled several degrees at the beginning of the Little Ice Age" which is then summarized as..... "10 times in the past 15,000 years, sudden warming of ~8-12° C (~14-21° F) occurred in less than 100 years and could not have been caused by anthropogenic CO2. " http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/viewHandout.cgi?uploadid=215 And yet, just because a "sudden global cooling" of 7 degrees is being counted as "sudden warming of 14-21 degrees", we silly leftwingers view this as a "lie". Go figure. I count a grand total of 5 warmings, of which a grand total of ***2*** are "14-21 degrees". See, a lot of people would consider stating that 2=10 is a lie. Well, warming, cooling, what's the diff, eh? 7 degrees is pretty close to 14-21 degrees, right? It's not like we're talking science or something here, where stuff like that matters. But that's just lying about the strength of your case; this is all aside from the question of how, logically, evidence that event X in the past was not caused by Y can be considered evidence that a similar event Z now is therefore not caused by Y, without actually demonstrating that X and Z have the same cause. Nobody's saying that past warmings were anthropogenic; they're saying that what we see now is, and that therefore we ought to think about where it will lead. "Was the Younger Dryas Triggered by a Flood? Wallace S. Broecker Draining of a huge lake into the Northern Atlantic may have triggered a cold period ~12,900 years ago." Science 26 May 2006: Vol. 312. no. 5777, pp. 1146 - 1148 DOI: 10.1126/science.1123253 Are you postulating that somehow, this explains the current warming? If not, then why is the onset of the Younger Dryas cited as "evidence" (of "sudden warming of ~8-12° C, no less)", in number 6 above (and note that the "sudden onset" can't even be pinpointed within 200 years; 12,700 years ago, or 12,900 years ago)? And how can it all have occurred **globally** "within 100 years", when in the Antarctic, the cooling began 14,500 years ago and stayed cold through the beginning of the Younger Dryas, then warmed up while the Younger Dryas was still in progress, cooling? ("Phase lag of Antarctic and Greenland temperature in the last glacial and link between CO2 variations and Heinrich Events", Blunier, T., T. F. Stocker, J. Chappellaz, D. Raynaud, in "Reconstructing Ocean History: A Window into the Future", Fatima Abrantes and Alan C. Mix, eds, Kluwer Academic/Plenum Publishers, 1999) Let alone the difficulty of determining, not just that an event 15,000 years ago happened within a short period; but that it happened globally within the same short period. For instance, the evidence for the globally synchronous nature of the MWP is absent; "Our review indicates that for some areas of the globe ... temperatures, particularly in summer, appear to have been higher during some parts of this period than those that were to prevail until the most recent decades of the twentieth century. These warmer regional episodes were not strongly synchronous. Evidence from other regions ... indicates that the climate during that time was little different to that of later times, or that warming, if it occurred, was recorded at a later time than has been assumed." ("Was there a 'medieval warm period', and if so, where and when?", Malcolm K. Hughes and Henry F. Diaz, Climatic Change Volume 26 March, 1994) The same kind of telescoping of time scales from the distant past, that makes people believe that cavemen hunted dinosaurs, because they were both a long time ago. 3) "Al Gore's movie ... legally been shown to contain MANY half-truths and outright lies." Err, Stewart Dimmock sued to have the movie not shown in schools; and LOST. Justice Burton wrote: "Al Gore's presentation of the causes and likely effects of climate change in the film was **broadly accurate**. ... Mr Downes produced a long schedule of such alleged errors or exaggerations and waxed lyrical in that regard. It was obviously helpful for me to look at the film with his critique in hand. In the event I was persuaded that only some of them were sufficiently persuasive to be relevant for the purposes of his argument, and it was those matters - 9 in all - upon which I invited Mr Chamberlain to concentrate. It was essential to appreciate that the hearing before me did not relate to an analysis of the scientific questions, but to an assessment of whether the 'errors' in question, set out in the context of a political film, informed the argument on ss406 and 407. All these 9 'errors' that I now address are not put in the context of the evidence of Professor Carter and the Claimant's case, but by **reference to the IPCC report** and the evidence of Dr Stott." So, I guess you are taking the IPCC as gospel, since you rely on the legal opinion using the IPCC report as the "gold standard" against which it measures Gore's film? Note that the judge referred to these as 'errors', complete with the quote marks, to indicate that they're ***what Downes called errors (with no quote marks)***. If the judge found that they were actual errors, there would be no quote marks. But as he says, "the hearing ... did not relate to an analysis of the scientific questions", only to "the argument on ss406 and 407". What do these sections allege? That there is not sufficient "balanced presentation of opposing views". So: the actual legal finding that the film is "broadly accurate" but has 9 'errors' (quotes in the original) in not presenting the opposing view in a balanced fashion, becomes in your world, "legally been shown to contain MANY half-truths and outright lies"; and from this you get "a good portion of the environmentalist propaganda had been proven to be lies?". Me, I see it as the opposite, regarding environmentalists, propaganda, and lies. BTW, climate researchers aren't funded by conservation organizations; conservation organizations are, however, often funded by donations from climate researchers, among others. Climate researchers are mostly funded by government organizations, such as the NSF, NIH, etc. Of course, we all know how the Bush administration is pushing the concept of environmentalism, eh? That's another mental hole in the what-climate-change thinktank; they don't grasp the difference between "scientists who deny anthropogenic climate change receive money from organizations who deny anthropogenic climate change", and "scientists who believe in anthropogenic climate change donate money to organizations who believe in anthropogenic climate change". It's really not the same thing. |
#49
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Global warming my ass!
On Dec 26, 6:32*pm, Lar wrote:
This is how rightwing urban legends are built; piece by piece. Like the legend that ""experts were equally convinced that the planet faced a possible mini ice age from a cooling trend." Here's a story Time Magazine ran in '74 http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...944914,00.html Lar If you're quoting Time Magazine as your climate "expert", you've pretty much shot yourself in the mouth right at the start. Who does that article quote as "scientists"? Well, Reid A. Bryson and Donald Oilman, both of whom are now widely quoted AGAINST the concept of global warming, and Kenneth Hare, who is quoted as saying that if the drought continues people will go hungry, with no reference to cooling. In fact, what Hare said re cooling was: "The slow cooling trend in parts of the northern hemisphere during the last few decades is similar to others of natural origin in the past, and thus whether it will continue or not is unknown". So, your "experts" who were so wrong and can't be believed, consist of Time magazine, quoting two experts who now have built on their previous erroneous stance by being widely quoted as saying there is no global warming. Thanks, that's another point against those two what- climate-change spokescritters. See, it's this kind of dumbass logical inability to think straight, for even the simplest arguments about who said what, demonstrated by the what-climate-change brain trust again and again, in every single post, which makes it impossible to take anything you guys say seriously. |
#50
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Global warming my ass!
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 08:41:21 -0800 (PST), z
wrote: On Dec 18, 6:45*am, "Bob" wrote: Question: * The surface of Mars is also warming. *Doesn't it seem odd that mankind is changing the climate on another planet? Yeah, and I flipped a quarter a dozen times yesterday, and half of them came up heads! I think that quarter must be rigged. ??? |
#51
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Global warming my ass!
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 10:32:27 -0800 (PST), z
wrote: On Dec 26, 6:32*pm, Lar wrote: This is how rightwing urban legends are built; piece by piece. Like the legend that ""experts were equally convinced that the planet faced a possible mini ice age from a cooling trend." Here's a story Time Magazine ran in '74 http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...944914,00.html Lar If you're quoting Time Magazine as your climate "expert", you've pretty much shot yourself in the mouth right at the start. Who does that article quote as "scientists"? Well, Reid A. Bryson and Donald Oilman, both of whom are now widely quoted AGAINST the concept of global warming, and Kenneth Hare, who is quoted as saying that if the drought continues people will go hungry, with no reference to cooling. In fact, what Hare said re cooling was: "The slow cooling trend in parts of the northern hemisphere during the last few decades is similar to others of natural origin in the past, and thus whether it will continue or not is unknown". So, your "experts" who were so wrong and can't be believed, consist of Time magazine, quoting two experts who now have built on their previous erroneous stance by being widely quoted as saying there is no global warming. Thanks, that's another point against those two what- climate-change spokescritters. See, it's this kind of dumbass logical inability to think straight, for even the simplest arguments about who said what, demonstrated by the what-climate-change brain trust again and again, in every single post, which makes it impossible to take anything you guys say seriously. then don't and go home or go back to your circle jerk |
#52
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Global warming my ass!
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 07:42:51 -0800 (PST), z
wrote: On Dec 26, 9:48*pm, Art wrote: z wrote: On Dec 26, 12:37 pm, Art wrote: z wrote: On Dec 19, 9:47 am, "Ryan P." wrote: * That's half false. *Obviously, global warming occurs. *However, nothing approaching a majority of scientists agree that HUMANS are the *main* factor. Well, as long as we're talking SCIENCE here, I assume you have quantitative data. So, what estimated percentage of "scientists agree that HUMANS are the *main* factor"? (of course, you can just point us towards the reference for the study which determined the number.) Just about the same percentage that are getting gov't money to research it. Yep, just exactly the "rightwing scientific" answer I was looking for. So, moving on in this direction of rightwing "facts", I'd love to hear how the grant process goes. I mean, nobody "researches global warming"; they just research CO2 levels in ice cores, etc. So, how do you apply for a grant to show global warming? The grant applications just say you're going to measure CO2 levels in ice cores, they don't say which direction you're going to find things, do you have to put that in a separate cover letter? Then, is that legally binding, so that they sue you to give them money back if you publish results that don't show global warming? It's important that the public know these things, don't you think? So you should let us in on the secrets, rather than keep them to yourself. Common sense says it's crap. I've been around a while and in just my lifetime - Nuclear war was gonna destroy the planet; then the ozone hole was gonna kill us all; now it's global warming. 10 years from now there will be a new doomsday theory. There have been people that claim "the end is near" as far back as recorded history and they all have one thing in common. They were wrong. Many people just don't believe them anymore and I'm one of them. Has nothing to do with right or left wing. Even if man is causing an "unnatural" rise in CO2, nature has an incredible ability to bring things back into balance. There is little if anything that man can do to this planet that nature hasn't done on a much larger scale. Oh, I'm not worried about the planet. I'm worried about my kids. They're not nearly as sturdy as the planet. you brought offspring into this world ? offspring who will use up more and more resources that can NOT easily be replaced? You selfish unthinking *******. Thanks to YOU Earth will overheat turning into a HELL planet. |
#53
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Global warming my ass!
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:46:05 -0800 (PST), z
wrote: On Dec 19, 9:47*am, "Ryan P." wrote: * Isn't it funny that all these melting glaciers are revealing ancient forests? *How can it be possible that only a few hundred years ago Greenland was a bountiful colony, and within 100 years became too cold to support pre-industrial civilization? *How was the planet ever warm enough before humans built their terrible, nasty, electricity-needing civilizations? *Clearly those ancient forests, tropical plant fossils in the Antarctic, and sea creature fossils found on the tops of mountains were put there by George W. Bush and other Republicans JUST so that they can deny global warming! Well, you got a fine point there. In fact, for the vast majority of the earth's history, it was much warmer, like ten degrees fahrenheit, and had 5 times as much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere as it does now. but, all those ancient forests you mention came along, and pulled so much CO2 out of the atmosphere that it couldn't decay back as fast as they converted it to carbohydrates, so vast quantities got buried during the carboniferous era. Hey, maybe that's why it's called the carboniferous era? And after a hundred million years, the CO2 in the air was where it is now (or where it was a hundred years ago, actually) and so was the temp. So, if we dig all that buried carbon back up and put it back in the air over the next century, there's no way it can affect the climate, right? * Who determines what the "perfect" global climate is? * Oh that's easy. Whatever climate happens as a random byproduct of big companies doing stuff to maximize profit without having to deal with the end/waste products, is perfect. Otherwise, you're a socialist and want to destroy the US. you have the readers digest condensed version ? I fell asleep right after "Well " |
#54
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Global warming my ass!
z wrote:
Oh, I'm not worried about the planet. I'm worried about my kids. They're not nearly as sturdy as the planet. Then teach them the lessons from the fable "Chicken Little". -- Art |
#55
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Global warming my ass!
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 00:53:06 -0600, Bosco wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 10:32:27 -0800 (PST), z wrote: On Dec 26, 6:32*pm, Lar wrote: This is how rightwing urban legends are built; piece by piece. Like the legend that ""experts were equally convinced that the planet faced a possible mini ice age from a cooling trend." Here's a story Time Magazine ran in '74 http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...944914,00.html Lar If you're quoting Time Magazine as your climate "expert", you've pretty much shot yourself in the mouth right at the start. Who does that article quote as "scientists"? Well, Reid A. Bryson and Donald Oilman, both of whom are now widely quoted AGAINST the concept of global warming, and Kenneth Hare, who is quoted as saying that if the drought continues people will go hungry, with no reference to cooling. In fact, what Hare said re cooling was: "The slow cooling trend in parts of the northern hemisphere during the last few decades is similar to others of natural origin in the past, and thus whether it will continue or not is unknown". So, your "experts" who were so wrong and can't be believed, consist of Time magazine, quoting two experts who now have built on their previous erroneous stance by being widely quoted as saying there is no global warming. Thanks, that's another point against those two what- climate-change spokescritters. See, it's this kind of dumbass logical inability to think straight, for even the simplest arguments about who said what, demonstrated by the what-climate-change brain trust again and again, in every single post, which makes it impossible to take anything you guys say seriously. then don't and go home or go back to your circle jerk Good rebuttal. That will win some debating points. |
#56
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Global warming my ass!
Ryan P. wrote:
Art wrote: z wrote: Oh, I'm not worried about the planet. I'm worried about my kids. They're not nearly as sturdy as the planet. Then teach them the lessons from the fable "Chicken Little". . . Are we allowed to tach fables anymore? I would have thought that they were considered to violoent by today's Politically Correct educational system? The Season 1 box set of "Sesame Street" was labeled "Not Suitable For Children" afterall... No one has to "allow" me to teach anything to my children. To pass on values, morals and common sense is the purpose of fables. You should not count on today's educational system to teach such. It is the parents' responsibility to fill in in these areas where the schools fall short. -- Art |
#57
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Global warming my ass!
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 08:06:43 -0500, dgk wrote:
On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 00:53:06 -0600, Bosco wrote: On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 10:32:27 -0800 (PST), z wrote: On Dec 26, 6:32*pm, Lar wrote: This is how rightwing urban legends are built; piece by piece. Like the legend that ""experts were equally convinced that the planet faced a possible mini ice age from a cooling trend." Here's a story Time Magazine ran in '74 http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...944914,00.html Lar If you're quoting Time Magazine as your climate "expert", you've pretty much shot yourself in the mouth right at the start. Who does that article quote as "scientists"? Well, Reid A. Bryson and Donald Oilman, both of whom are now widely quoted AGAINST the concept of global warming, and Kenneth Hare, who is quoted as saying that if the drought continues people will go hungry, with no reference to cooling. In fact, what Hare said re cooling was: "The slow cooling trend in parts of the northern hemisphere during the last few decades is similar to others of natural origin in the past, and thus whether it will continue or not is unknown". So, your "experts" who were so wrong and can't be believed, consist of Time magazine, quoting two experts who now have built on their previous erroneous stance by being widely quoted as saying there is no global warming. Thanks, that's another point against those two what- climate-change spokescritters. See, it's this kind of dumbass logical inability to think straight, for even the simplest arguments about who said what, demonstrated by the what-climate-change brain trust again and again, in every single post, which makes it impossible to take anything you guys say seriously. then don't and go home or go back to your circle jerk Good rebuttal. That will win some debating points. that's your problem ... winning debating points ... which pretty much means you lost before you started. You think it's a "debate" with this guy. It's not. He couldn't care less about differring views he's only interested in spreading the gosple according to Algore. But hay, Thanks for playing. |
#58
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Global warming my ass!
On Dec 27, 1:48*pm, "Ryan P."
wrote: z wrote: On Dec 26, 6:32 pm, Lar wrote: This is how rightwing urban legends are built; piece by piece. Like the legend that ""experts were equally convinced that the planet faced a possible mini ice age from a cooling trend." Here's a story Time Magazine ran in '74http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,944914,00.html Lar If you're quoting Time Magazine as your climate "expert", you've pretty much shot yourself in the mouth right at the start. Who does that article quote as "scientists"? Well, Reid A. Bryson and Donald Oilman, both of whom are now widely quoted AGAINST the concept of global warming, and Kenneth Hare, who is quoted as saying that if the . . * You are making any argument with you impossible. *I could just as easily say that anybody you cite is FOR the concept of (man-made) global warming, and therefore can't be trusted. Hmm. Have to make this simple. Your argument seems to be something like this: 1) "experts" in the 70s argued that global cooling is coming 2) they were wrong 3) "experts" now argue global warming is coming 4) so you don't put any faith in it. Whereas, my argument is 3a) the few "experts" in the 70s who argued that global cooling are coming, are the ones that are now arguing that global warming is NOT coming; so you logically ought to not believe them, and believe the folks who did not say global cooling was coming. |
#59
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Global warming my ass!
On Dec 28, 8:27*pm, Bosco wrote:
You think it's a "debate" with this guy. *It's not. *He couldn't care less about differring views he's only interested in spreading the gosple according to Algore. What is it with you guys and Al Gore? Do you now believe he claims to have invented global warming, like you believe he claims to have invented the Internet? You know, he's a Christian. You probably better drop that religion, if you haven't already. And, he's heterosexual. You don't want to be caught with the same sexual orientation as Al Gore. And he wears clothes. You don't want people to think you're copying Al Gore in that regard. |
#60
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Global warming my ass!
On Dec 28, 2:03*am, Bosco wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:46:05 -0800 (PST), z wrote: On Dec 19, 9:47*am, "Ryan P." wrote: * Isn't it funny that all these melting glaciers are revealing ancient forests? *How can it be possible that only a few hundred years ago Greenland was a bountiful colony, and within 100 years became too cold to support pre-industrial civilization? *How was the planet ever warm enough before humans built their terrible, nasty, electricity-needing civilizations? *Clearly those ancient forests, tropical plant fossils in the Antarctic, and sea creature fossils found on the tops of mountains were put there by George W. Bush and other Republicans JUST so that they can deny global warming! Well, you got a fine point there. In fact, for the vast majority of the earth's history, it was much warmer, like ten degrees fahrenheit, and had 5 times as much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere as it does now. but, all those ancient forests you mention came along, and pulled so much CO2 out of the atmosphere that it couldn't decay back as fast as they converted it to carbohydrates, so vast quantities got buried during the carboniferous era. Hey, maybe that's why it's called the carboniferous era? And after a hundred million years, the CO2 in the air was where it is now (or where it was a hundred years ago, actually) and so was the temp. So, if we dig all that buried carbon back up and put it back in the air over the next century, there's no way it can affect the climate, right? * Who determines what the "perfect" global climate is? * Oh that's easy. Whatever climate happens as a random byproduct of big companies doing stuff to maximize profit without having to deal with the end/waste products, is perfect. Otherwise, you're a socialist and want to destroy the US. you have the readers digest condensed version ? *I fell asleep right after "Well "- Hey, don't struggle to stay up and share your fine opinions on this topic that bores you on my account. Really. |
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