I recently purchased a Catsetum pileatum. It arrived and is comprised of an
older p/b and a new full of leaves growth. The information about caring for
it on the web is conflicting. Is now the stage when I hold back the water
completely? Is the new growth about to shed it's leaves? Some websites say
that it will bloom after it sheds it's leaves, and other websites say that
it will flower from the late fall and into Christmas! Is mine about to
bloom? or is about to go bald?

Mariana

GrlIntrpted wrote:

I recently purchased a Catsetum pileatum. It arrived and is comprised of an
older p/b and a new full of leaves growth. The information about caring for
it on the web is conflicting. Is now the stage when I hold back the water
completely? Is the new growth about to shed it's leaves? Some websites say
that it will bloom after it sheds it's leaves, and other websites say that
it will flower from the late fall and into Christmas! Is mine about to
bloom? or is about to go bald?


The information is confusing because these are confusing plants. In
my hands they behave differently than in your hands. My leaves fall
more in response to spider mite infestation than any seasonal
activity... *grin* Anyway, don't worry about it. Continue to water it
as you normally would until the leaves start to yellow, then start
withholding water. Let the plant tell you when it wants to go dormant.
The plant knows. It might take a few years to figure out just what
seasons you have at your house, just like a person with jet-lag.

This species flowers, for me, while leafless. And usually flowers
with the spike going backwards into the bench materials, so that it
can't be moved for display. Consistently. Perhaps the spikes like to
travel away from the light.

Rob



--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit

I tend to agree with you, Rob. I, however, I have a remedy for the
following:

This species flowers, for me, while leafless. And usually flowers
with the spike going backwards into the bench materials, so that it
can't be moved for display.

When the spikes appear on mine, I take the plant inside and place in a
sunny window. That way water does not catch the spike nor the flowers.
Inside they seem to get more of a rest period, and it appears that the
ones that bloom the previous year seem to bloom once again the next
year.

.. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://www.pe.net/~profpam/page3.html
(includes orchid care for many of the species)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Halgren wrote:

GrlIntrpted wrote:

I recently purchased a Catsetum pileatum. It arrived and is comprised of an
older p/b and a new full of leaves growth. The information about caring for
it on the web is conflicting. Is now the stage when I hold back the water
completely? Is the new growth about to shed it's leaves? Some websites say
that it will bloom after it sheds it's leaves, and other websites say that
it will flower from the late fall and into Christmas! Is mine about to
bloom? or is about to go bald?


The information is confusing because these are confusing plants. In
my hands they behave differently than in your hands. My leaves fall
more in response to spider mite infestation than any seasonal
activity... *grin* Anyway, don't worry about it. Continue to water it
as you normally would until the leaves start to yellow, then start
withholding water. Let the plant tell you when it wants to go dormant.
The plant knows. It might take a few years to figure out just what
seasons you have at your house, just like a person with jet-lag.

This species flowers, for me, while leafless. And usually flowers
with the spike going backwards into the bench materials, so that it
can't be moved for display. Consistently. Perhaps the spikes like to
travel away from the light.

Rob



--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit

This species flowers, for me, while leafless. And usually flowers
with the spike going backwards into the bench materials, so that it
can't be moved for display.



When the spikes appear on mine, I take the plant inside and place in a
sunny window. That way water does not catch the spike nor the flowers.
Inside they seem to get more of a rest period, and it appears that the
ones that bloom the previous year seem to bloom once again the next
year.



Good idea... But I only have an inside... And no suitable windows.
Usually by the time I notice that it is in spike, the spikes have
already grown into some sort of unsolvable puzzle. I've been known to
climb under the stairs (I have/had/and will have again stair stepped
benches) to take a look from behind.

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit

"Rob Halgren" wrote in message
...
GrlIntrpted wrote:

I recently purchased a Catsetum pileatum. It arrived and is comprised of
an
older p/b and a new full of leaves growth. The information about caring
for
it on the web is conflicting. Is now the stage when I hold back the
water
completely? Is the new growth about to shed it's leaves? Some websites
say
that it will bloom after it sheds it's leaves, and other websites say
that
it will flower from the late fall and into Christmas! Is mine about to
bloom? or is about to go bald?


The information is confusing because these are confusing plants. In
my hands they behave differently than in your hands. My leaves fall
more in response to spider mite infestation than any seasonal
activity... *grin* Anyway, don't worry about it. Continue to water it
as you normally would until the leaves start to yellow, then start
withholding water. Let the plant tell you when it wants to go dormant.
The plant knows. It might take a few years to figure out just what
seasons you have at your house, just like a person with jet-lag.

This species flowers, for me, while leafless. And usually flowers
with the spike going backwards into the bench materials, so that it
can't be moved for display. Consistently. Perhaps the spikes like to
travel away from the light.

Rob


Thanks for the information Rob, much appreciated. I was under the impression
that to get female flowers I should grow it in a very bright location,
whereas shaded growing conditions produce the showier (is that a word?
male flowers.

Mariana

"profpam" wrote in message ...
I tend to agree with you, Rob. I, however, I have a remedy for the
following:

This species flowers, for me, while leafless. And usually flowers
with the spike going backwards into the bench materials, so that it
can't be moved for display.

When the spikes appear on mine, I take the plant inside and place in a
sunny window. That way water does not catch the spike nor the flowers.
Inside they seem to get more of a rest period, and it appears that the
ones that bloom the previous year seem to bloom once again the next
year.


I understood (probably incorrectly) that this particular species should be
split right as it goes into dormancy and the
spent p/b (the most recently flowered one) should be repotted. I can't
recall where I read that this particular orchid should not have more than 2
p/b's in total: the old one, from which a new shoot (p/s) emerges, and the
new p/b
will eventually lose it's leaves and will flower. I think that I just
figured out at which stage mine is .
Thank you all for the responses.


Mariana
The forever confused

"GrlIntrpted" wrote in
et:

I recently purchased a Catsetum pileatum. It arrived and is comprised
of an older p/b and a new full of leaves growth. The information
about caring for it on the web is conflicting. Is now the stage when
I hold back the water completely? Is the new growth about to shed it's


Catasetum pileatum, of which I have grown several, is a spectacular and
easy-growing plant, though the flowers only look in perfect condition
for a short time.

Water them copiously, do NOT divide them down too much, and dry out
completely (gradually witholding water until no water is given) until
new growth is well along. Mine always bloomed while in leaf. I did
extremely well with these in a bright portion of my cattleya collection,
but they even do well on windowsills. When mine bloomed I let them stand
on inverted pots and let the spikes (which are pendent) grow down over
the side of the bench.

I have read (in Holst's book) that shade is their want, but I always
grow mine bright. I have never had a female flower appear (though Ctsm
tenebrosum easily threw females in a similar though MORE shady location.

Check out one of my yellows at
http://cosmo.turbonet.com/Ctsm_pileatum.jpg

I had a gorgeous green one, and a pure white one, and one with spots.
They are all beautiful.


--
***********************************
* Bob Dickow ) *
* Hampton School of Music *
***********************************

Your Catasetum pileatum is lovely Robert. Many
thanks for the growing tips.

Cheers Wendy
Remove PETERPAN for email reply


"Robert Dickow" wrote in message
. ..
"GrlIntrpted" wrote in
et:

I recently purchased a Catsetum pileatum. It arrived and is comprised
of an older p/b and a new full of leaves growth. The information
about caring for it on the web is conflicting. Is now the stage when
I hold back the water completely? Is the new growth about to shed it's


Catasetum pileatum, of which I have grown several, is a spectacular and
easy-growing plant, though the flowers only look in perfect condition
for a short time.

Water them copiously, do NOT divide them down too much, and dry out
completely (gradually witholding water until no water is given) until
new growth is well along. Mine always bloomed while in leaf. I did
extremely well with these in a bright portion of my cattleya collection,
but they even do well on windowsills. When mine bloomed I let them stand
on inverted pots and let the spikes (which are pendent) grow down over
the side of the bench.

I have read (in Holst's book) that shade is their want, but I always
grow mine bright. I have never had a female flower appear (though Ctsm
tenebrosum easily threw females in a similar though MORE shady location.

Check out one of my yellows at
http://cosmo.turbonet.com/Ctsm_pileatum.jpg

I had a gorgeous green one, and a pure white one, and one with spots.
They are all beautiful.


--
***********************************
* Bob Dickow ) *
* Hampton School of Music *
***********************************

But I didn't really respond clearly about when to withold water, as that
is really a critical time. What I do is water most Catasetums rather
well when in warm weather, when they can grow over 1 inch a week. In
fall most of them slow down and plump up their bulbs. I keep watering
almost as heavily as when in full growth, but let them get fairly dry
between waterings, but not for long periods of dryness. Then, as the
wintery dark days set in, I extend the times between waterings, watching
the bulbs and watering to keep them from shriveling. Then, usually in
December, the plants will get yellow leaves that drop off. Now is the
time to start cutting back on water, and when all the leaves are gone,
stop watering. In fact, on many plants I don't water them at all until
new growth is well along, often 2 or even 3 months of dormancy. Ctsm.
pileatum, acording to Holst, has a short dormancy, but in my experience
they can go dormant into early March. Then, when new growth starts, hold
off on all watering and especially fertilizing until the new growth is
putting out a good flush of roots. Just before the growth is too big I
usually repot, though I get very good results going 2 years between
repottings (unless in sphagnum), contrary to common lore. But the period
of formation of the new young growth is another very touchy time for
Catasetums, as premature water can result in a very quick death, if not
the loss of the new growth. But even if your plant looks terribly
shriveled up (which rarely happens), mine often completely plump up
within 1 or 2 days of watering again in the spring. Then, growth can be
extremely fast. Watch out for red spider...don't even let them get one!

I have never used the techniques of unpotting the plants during their
dormancy. This is probably not needed in most small collections, and can
result in lost labels and such. However, in a greenhouse, protect plants
from winter condensation drips. I lost a very nice Mormodes in a single
night of dribbles that landed smack on the bulbs of the plant. By
morning the plant was entirely a gushy mass of rotten gunk. It really
can happen that fast! Catasetums, however, are much more resistant to
these kinds of rots than Mormodes and Cycnoches. Rots, for me, have
occured, but almost always in newly acquired plants. After I have them
for a season or two, they seem impervious to rot almost. I can't quite
explain why this is fully. I have a theory there is something in our
water.

Bob

"Wendy" wrote in news:I8fwb.6063$ML6.464
@fed1read01:

Your Catasetum pileatum is lovely Robert. Many
thanks for the growing tips.




--
***********************************
* Bob Dickow ) *
* Hampton School of Music *
***********************************

Robert said:
But even if your plant looks terribly
shriveled up (which rarely happens), mine often completely plump up
within 1 or 2 days of watering again in the spring.

If bulbs are terribly shriveled up, they usually do not respond to water
and do not even produce keikis. If a plant does not have the bulbage,
misting is needed and watering may be necessary as well as to not allow
it to go into dormancy. Once dormant and shriveled, if there is no
other new growth (whether dormant or otherwise) then the catasetum is a
goner.

.. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://www.pe.net/~profpam/page3.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Dickow wrote:

But I didn't really respond clearly about when to withold water, as that
is really a critical time. What I do is water most Catasetums rather
well when in warm weather, when they can grow over 1 inch a week. In
fall most of them slow down and plump up their bulbs. I keep watering
almost as heavily as when in full growth, but let them get fairly dry
between waterings, but not for long periods of dryness. Then, as the
wintery dark days set in, I extend the times between waterings, watching
the bulbs and watering to keep them from shriveling. Then, usually in
December, the plants will get yellow leaves that drop off. Now is the
time to start cutting back on water, and when all the leaves are gone,
stop watering. In fact, on many plants I don't water them at all until
new growth is well along, often 2 or even 3 months of dormancy. Ctsm.
pileatum, acording to Holst, has a short dormancy, but in my experience
they can go dormant into early March. Then, when new growth starts, hold
off on all watering and especially fertilizing until the new growth is
putting out a good flush of roots. Just before the growth is too big I
usually repot, though I get very good results going 2 years between
repottings (unless in sphagnum), contrary to common lore. But the period
of formation of the new young growth is another very touchy time for
Catasetums, as premature water can result in a very quick death, if not
the loss of the new growth. But even if your plant looks terribly
shriveled up (which rarely happens), mine often completely plump up
within 1 or 2 days of watering again in the spring. Then, growth can be
extremely fast. Watch out for red spider...don't even let them get one!

I have never used the techniques of unpotting the plants during their
dormancy. This is probably not needed in most small collections, and can
result in lost labels and such. However, in a greenhouse, protect plants
from winter condensation drips. I lost a very nice Mormodes in a single
night of dribbles that landed smack on the bulbs of the plant. By
morning the plant was entirely a gushy mass of rotten gunk. It really
can happen that fast! Catasetums, however, are much more resistant to
these kinds of rots than Mormodes and Cycnoches. Rots, for me, have
occured, but almost always in newly acquired plants. After I have them
for a season or two, they seem impervious to rot almost. I can't quite
explain why this is fully. I have a theory there is something in our
water.

Bob

"Wendy" wrote in news:I8fwb.6063$ML6.464
@fed1read01:

Your Catasetum pileatum is lovely Robert. Many
thanks for the growing tips.


--
***********************************
* Bob Dickow ) *
* Hampton School of Music *
***********************************

Well, true, you don't want them to get THAT shriveled up. But mine do
show some signs of ridging from water usage, and this is normal, and
nothing to worry about during dormancy. But your response shows perhaps
some misunderstanding. My plants are very plump at the time they go into
dormancy. The 'shriveling' is really just some normal signs of ridging
in the bulbs by the END of the dormancy period. I have watered some
plants perhaps twice during the dormant period, but not when it is cold
or dark. As for 'terribly shriveled up', note that I say that rarely
happens. If it does, then the plant must be sick or rotting or
something. Left on their own, I can leave many of them for 2 to 3 months
with NO water, NO misting, and keep them in my 10% humidity on
windowsills with little or in many cases no signs of shriveling
whatsoever...depends on the species. Some Cycnoches like a little more
moisture, as do Mormodes. I would be venture to say that a plant that
actually shrivels up to the point of death due to withholding water
during dormancy is probably dying from some other cause anyway. They
just NEVER die from lack of water over the dormant period in my
experience. But then, I only have about 40 Catasetinae plants at
present, so my experience is perhaps more limited than some growers.
Remember the old practice of unpotting the plants and sticking them in
the garage to be forgotten until spring. I have corresponded with one
grower who still does this.

Mist them during dormancy... and you can kill them very quickly too.
Actually, I never did do much misting, even when I had a greenhouse with
hundreds of mixed types of orchids.

As for trying to prevent them from going into dormancy, I have never
found this to be even POSSIBLE through witholding watering, in years of
growing these plants. They go dormant quite on their own terms whether I
continue to water them or not. But if you keep watering them when they
want to go dormant, you kill them. Some growers cut off the leaves to
'force' dormancy. This seems ridiculous and totally unnatural to me.
Leaves are the plant's food factories. If the plant has them, it is
probably using them for something.

Under my conditions, almost all species go leafless in just a matter of
days right around Christmas time. Water them only if they send up
flowers or leaves. I often have plants that bloom in the fall while in
full leaf, then will go dormant completely dropping their leaves, then
in a few weeks send up more flowers, then go back to sleep again. Also,
some plants, whether species or hybrids, may show different bloom times
n different years for me.

profpam wrote in :

Robert said:
But even if your plant looks terribly
shriveled up (which rarely happens), mine often completely plump up
within 1 or 2 days of watering again in the spring.

If bulbs are terribly shriveled up, they usually do not respond to
water and do not even produce keikis. If a plant does not have the
bulbage, misting is needed and watering may be necessary as well as to
not allow it to go into dormancy. Once dormant and shriveled, if
there is no other new growth (whether dormant or otherwise) then the
catasetum is a goner.

. . . Pam

--
***********************************
* Bob Dickow ) *
* Hampton School of Music *
***********************************