Once again, I'm going to cause some trouble.
After watching the gymnastics competitions for a couple of days in the
Olympics I thought about the orchids that are judged at a competition. So
how does an orchid get judged (ie. by what criteria can one orchid of one
species win over others in the same species)? Can anyone share some first
person experiences?

Horace


--
Please visit Horace's Page of Eternal Art
http://members.shaw.ca/hluong68/indexf.html

Hi;


So
how does an orchid get judged (ie. by what criteria can one orchid of one
species win over others in the same species)

If you are judging for show ribbons - the best one there that day as determined
by a ribbon judging team consisting of whoever wishes to judge and based on the
rules of the show committee.

If you are judging for American Orchid Society Flower Quality Awards - equal
to or improvement in flower quality, based on a set point scale and previous
awards to the genera/species/hybrids. Points awarded by a panel of at least 5
AOS Judges, 3 of which must be Accredited Judges. To reach Accredited Judge
status requires 7 years to complete the AOS sanctioned training program, plus
continuing education as long as you hold a Judges appointment.

A Short Version. The AOS Handbook on Judging and Exhibition, 11th Ed. 96 pages
gives more details about Orchid Judging. Hope This Helps.

Jerry

a href="http://www.clanorchids.com/"Camp Lot A Noise Tropicals (C. L. A.
N.)/a http://www.clanorchids.com/
Orchid Species, Hybrids, Supplies, Photos and Books
Chat (941) 352-2483 Fax: (941) 351-2483 X 123 Order Only 1-800-351-CITE

Elpaninaro wrote:


Once a plant is in front of an AOS judging team, there is usually discussion of
the plant after which the team votes whether to score the plant. Majority
rules, and if the plant is scored there is a series of strict rules for how to
average and tabulate scores, and what to do in the event that the point spread
between judges is too large. This is all pretty well figured out and you will
usually not see a lot of drama unless a plant is a borderline FCC/AM. That is
when things can get interesting- especially since an FCC requires further
evaluation beyond the vote of one team!



All that is accurate enough, but there is no requirement (at least
in the AOS Judging rules) that an FCC has to be voted on by more than
one team. A legal team (of the proper size and composition) can give
any quality award they want.

(In case you do not know, an FCC is 90-100 points on the judging scale. There
are usually 10-20 of these each year out of thousands of plants judged.)



You don't see many. I've seen some CCE (90-100 point cultural
awards), but I've never been on a team that gave an FCC in over 12 years
of observing and judging... Plenty of high AMs.


That last point is important. It is very difficult to get a high award on a
white Phalaenopsis any more because that breeding has reached a peak where
improvements are incremental at best. However, in a new breeding line a flower
can achieve a very high award and still not be of the same overall quality and
form as a top white Phal that gets nothing.



Absolutely. If the judges have an excellent idea of what to expect,
it is difficult to exceed their expectations. I've seen thousands of
white phalaenopsis, so it would take something truely extraordinary to
press my buttons. That said, we've awarded several white phals in the
last couple years in our center, there are still improvements being made.

Time is vital. Best case of this is the highest FCC score ever granted- several
decades ago to a Vanda Rothschildiana. The plant got a 98 point FCC. I am not
aware of this score having ever been exceeded since.



I didn't see the 98 pt FCC in Wildcatt when I was looking, but this
is an excellent point. The highest FCCs I could find were to Paph.
armeniacum. Because it was yellow, I presume. Those FCC awards given
to the first couple plants exhibited are not at all impressive compared
to even the most average Paph. armeniacum today.


Most people are reasonable and there to have fun. But every show will have at
least one colorful tale when you take that many educated and opinionated
people, ship half of them out of town and keep them up until 2 in the morning



Some shows have several tales... *grin*

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
LittlefrogFarm is open - e-mail me for a list )

All that is accurate enough, but there is no requirement (at least
in the AOS Judging rules) that an FCC has to be voted on by more than
one team. A legal team (of the proper size and composition) can give
any quality award they want.

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the post. Wanted to clarify the snip above with you since you are a
judge and I may be wrong here.

It is my understanding that all FCCs are provisional until the slide and
measurements are reviewed at a later time and place- I guess at headquarters or
by judges from another region?

I need to dig out my handbook- for some reason I thought that was the case.

But yes you are right to call me on the fact that another team at the same
judging does not have to also grant the FCC, and my bad if I gave that
impression.

Take care,

Tom.

PS- If I may ask, which home region do you judge in? We may have met in the
past if you have been judging for 12 years and get anywhere near Texas.

All that is accurate enough, but there is no requirement (at least
in the AOS Judging rules) that an FCC has to be voted on by more than
one team. A legal team (of the proper size and composition) can give
any quality award they want.

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the post. Wanted to clarify the snip above with you since you are a
judge and I may be wrong here.

It is my understanding that all FCCs are provisional until the slide and
measurements are reviewed at a later time and place- I guess at headquarters or
by judges from another region?

I need to dig out my handbook- for some reason I thought that was the case.

But yes you are right to call me on the fact that another team at the same
judging does not have to also grant the FCC, and my bad if I gave that
impression.

Take care,

Tom.

PS- If I may ask, which home region do you judge in? We may have met in the
past if you have been judging for 12 years and get anywhere near Texas.

Elpaninaro wrote:

All that is accurate enough, but there is no requirement (at least
in the AOS Judging rules) that an FCC has to be voted on by more than
one team. A legal team (of the proper size and composition) can give
any quality award they want.



Hi Rob,

Thanks for the post. Wanted to clarify the snip above with you since you are a
judge and I may be wrong here.

It is my understanding that all FCCs are provisional until the slide and
measurements are reviewed at a later time and place- I guess at headquarters or
by judges from another region?



Not FCCs. Not as far as I know, anyway. The slides are
automagically submitted to the AOS for consideration for one of the
national awards - can't remember which off the top of my head (best
FCC). I wouldn't want somebody second guessing my opinion about a
plant from a picture - there is a reason we judge from live material,
and why I've always been yelled at when I say something negative about a
slide. "I wouldn't have given that an AM" should be moderated by the
fact that the photo could be bad, or not representative, or just plain
not my decision... You may hear about it later, if you have screwed up,
but that doesn't invalidate the award.

CBR (botanical recognition) and CHM (horticultural merit) I believe
are both provisional upon taxonomic verification. All awards are
provisional on payment of the fee.

PS- If I may ask, which home region do you judge in? We may have met in the
past if you have been judging for 12 years and get anywhere near Texas.


Don't get near Texas too much. I'm in the Great Lakes center.
I've only been officially in the judging program for 5 years, but I
observed and participated (as well an observer can) for many years
before that... We are pretty relaxed up here, observers can sit at the
judging table, and even make comments usually. And we take advantage of
the more senior observers sometimes to make measurements and write
descriptions (of course we check, but it does help).

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
LittlefrogFarm is open - e-mail me for a list )

Clanorchid wrote:


Down here, Florida North Central (FNC) we select slides from FNC awarded plants
for the year and submit them to the Trustees' meeting for all the national
awards, such as Butterworth, Nax, etc. The FCCs are sent to AOS for publication
in the magazine edition which shows all FCCs, awarded by the AOS for the year.



That is pretty much the same procedure we use, where we select our
center's candidates for the various awards. Assuming we ever give an
FCC, however, we don't actually have to select it, it is sent for
consideration by default. I guess that isn't quite the same as automatic...

Last year 2003, FNC awarded 6 FCCs, I was on the team for four of them. 20
years of Judging, never close, then 4 FCCs in three months, the more amazing 2
at the same judging session. Incredible flowers.


Wow. That sounds fun. I'd like to see a few FCCs in my lifetime.
Of course I'd rather be receiving the FCC than judging it, but I'll take
either one.

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
LittlefrogFarm is open - e-mail me for a list )

The real fun comes when the local OS rather than the AOS judges do the
ribbons. I've seen it happen a few times, that there's a Catt in one ex.
with a newly-awarded FCC, and another Catt in a different ex. gets a lower,
or no, award, but has the blue ribbon for Best in Show. In fact, it's
happened to me -- my Blc. Golden Tang 'Juno' has taken 3 blue ribbons for
best Catt in it category at its last 3 appearances at shows, but it has no
AOS award. Drives the observers crazy; I keep trying to explain that there
are 2 different judging authorities in that situation ... Kenni

"Elpaninaro" wrote in message
...
Once again, I'm going to cause some trouble.
After watching the gymnastics competitions for a couple of days in the
Olympics I thought about the orchids that are judged at a competition.
So
how does an orchid get judged (ie. by what criteria can one orchid of one
species win over others in the same species)? Can anyone share some
first
person experiences?

Horace

Hi Horace,

And good evening all. Long time no see.

Jerry got it right, but I will offer a bit more detail in case you are
interested.

AOS Judging at a show is conducted just as it is at Judging Centers in
terms of
the basics. A judge must nominate a plant, and then all nominated plants
are
split among the judging teams. There is an effort most of the time to
ensure
that a plant of genus X will go to a team where at least one judge knows a
lot
about that particular genus or breeding line.

However, no judge may ever evaluate their own plant. This is where those
blessed creatures who handle registration come in. They not only have to
figure
out where the plants are to be sent, but they also have to make sure that
no
judge is asked to evaluate his or her own plant. Given how many judges
grow and
show, it can be a real juggling act to make sure no plant goes to the
wrong
table for evaluation (but when it happens, the plant is just sent back
with no
fuss, so no worries.)

Once a plant is in front of an AOS judging team, there is usually
discussion of
the plant after which the team votes whether to score the plant. Majority
rules, and if the plant is scored there is a series of strict rules for
how to
average and tabulate scores, and what to do in the event that the point
spread
between judges is too large. This is all pretty well figured out and you
will
usually not see a lot of drama unless a plant is a borderline FCC/AM. That
is
when things can get interesting- especially since an FCC requires further
evaluation beyond the vote of one team!

(In case you do not know, an FCC is 90-100 points on the judging scale.
There
are usually 10-20 of these each year out of thousands of plants judged.)

The criteria go into what you might expect- color, shape, size, substance,
plant and flower condition etc. But the overriding factor, and one reason
why
judges have strict requirements on their frequency of judging, is that the
plant must be outstanding relative to its parentage and type as well as in
general.

That last point is important. It is very difficult to get a high award on
a
white Phalaenopsis any more because that breeding has reached a peak where
improvements are incremental at best. However, in a new breeding line a
flower
can achieve a very high award and still not be of the same overall quality
and
form as a top white Phal that gets nothing.

Time is vital. Best case of this is the highest FCC score ever granted-
several
decades ago to a Vanda Rothschildiana. The plant got a 98 point FCC. I am
not
aware of this score having ever been exceeded since.

Well I have seen a picture of the flower, and that same Vanda
Rothschildiana
today would not even get nominated. In 50 years of Vanda breeding, what
used to
be an FCC grade flower in the 1950s pales in comparison to the top plants
of
today.


As for ribbon judging, this is where life can get very interesting. I am
not an
AOS Judge by the way, but I have clerked many a time for shows (the guy
with
the clipboard who shows the judges to the plants to be evaluated.)

For ribbon judging you have teams of judges once again. Usually also a
clerk
who has a list of the plants to be evaluated.

Unlike with AOS Judging, ribbon judging does not usually involve the
plants
being moved from their exhibits- at least in the US. So instead of having
all
the pink Cattleyas in one place to compare and give out ribbons for the
"pink
Cattleya section" (ficticional category by the way, more on that in a
moment),
the judges have to walk around to all the exhibits and see which plants in
which exhibits are up for the ribbons in the category being judged.

There is no scoring system for ribbon judging- it is pretty much to the
discretion of the judges with the check and balance being that the work is
done
in teams of judges (and teams are intentionally mixed with judges from
different cities/regions) and any suspicious or bad "calls" will usually
be met
with direct opinions

Once the plants are all seen, there is a vote and that is it.

As for categories, it varies by show. Really large shows may break out
Cattleyas into general color schemes and flower size ranges. Small shows
may
just have a Cattleya category. AOS ribbon judging does however require
adherement to a complex set of categories based on genus, breeding line
and
flower size- with some discretion to blend categories if the show is too
small
to have enough plants for there to be a good selection for each category.

Typically there are also show trophies- AOS Show Trophy, Best Commercial
Exhibit, Best Novice Exhibit etc. Aside from the AOS Trophy which has
specific
criteria, the other show awards are pretty much designed at the discretion
of
the local society.

And of course there is often best in show as well- Best Species, Best
Hybrid,
Best Grown and for large shows best of each genus- Best Cattleya, Best
Phal
etc. These are usually selected from ribbon winners in all categories for
the
genus.

Ribbon and AOS judging often happen on Friday evenings. Many judges have
flown
or driven in from out of town, many have spent all day setting up their
own
exhibits and/or vendor booths. Judging can go until 1-2 AM at times (AOS
Judging that is, ribbons are usually disposed of first and with great
speed.)

Most people are reasonable and there to have fun. But every show will have
at
least one colorful tale when you take that many educated and opinionated
people, ship half of them out of town and keep them up until 2 in the
morning


Tom.

On 24 Oct 2004 14:27:39 GMT, (Elpaninaro)
wrote:

In any event, I like the fact the door is wide open for ribbon judging since I
think the one criterion is the right one- the plant that strikes judges as the
most impressive in that time and place.

And the team process keeps it honest!

Take care,

Tom.

It is often just that - the most popular with the judges and
clerks. Sometimes there are not many qualified judges and the
head judge may take a vote of the clerks and judges present.
And of course, sometimes the plant previously awarded, was
awarded years and years ago for another grower who had great luck
with the plant and now it looks ratty.
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php

On 24 Oct 2004 14:27:39 GMT, (Elpaninaro)
wrote:

In any event, I like the fact the door is wide open for ribbon judging since I
think the one criterion is the right one- the plant that strikes judges as the
most impressive in that time and place.

And the team process keeps it honest!

Take care,

Tom.

It is often just that - the most popular with the judges and
clerks. Sometimes there are not many qualified judges and the
head judge may take a vote of the clerks and judges present.
And of course, sometimes the plant previously awarded, was
awarded years and years ago for another grower who had great luck
with the plant and now it looks ratty.
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php