In past years I have tackled dry spells with just pure watering. But
this year I am changing tactic to that of thinking that a good mulch is
even better than watering. I say this because the ground has alot of
moisture and what removes it is evaporation. It evaporates faster than
spot-watering over long stretches of time. What I want to prevent is
the plant from leaf curl and shrivel and the plant turn off metabolism
due to drought conditions. So if I see the plant putting on more new
leaves in drought conditions I know my mulching has been very
effective.

What I use is roofing tar shingles, those asphalt shingles. It
suppresses the weeds around the base of the plant but most importantly
moisture that comes to the surface remains there and not evaporate away
as fast. In past years I have given those plants two 5 gallons of water
every third day. Now I give them just one 5 gallons of water.

Here in South Dakota, near Sioux City we had a overabundance of rain in
May that caused some flooding, but when June arrived set off a dry
spell and no rain for the past 3 weeks and my currant bushes are
showing signs of drought. So I am applying those tar shingles and my
raspberries are doing great because of it.

We are supposed to get some rain on late Monday but if that fails to
deliver then we could face a dry period of no rain for nearly 2 months.
And 2 months without rain is a long time for plants.

Also, I like these roofing tar shingles as mulch because my soil is
alkaline pH and these shingles when decomposed add some acidity to my
soil and thus conditions my soil for a better pH. My apple trees and
raspberries really like the mulch because they grow better than the
unmulched ones.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

WARNING! DO NOT DO THIS! ASPHALT ROOFING SHINGLES
ARE TREATED WITH HERBICIDES AND FUNGICIDES! Also,
particulates, many of them poisonous, collect on
roofs during dry spells. Here in Southern California,
we have had fatal incidents of poisoning by collected
rainwater runoff from roofs. Trying to use shingles
as garden mulch is not a good idea to say the least.

Darwin Award Winner, Mr. KKK-Plutonium African-hater should take all
available measures to get off this world. Why would you like him to
stay longer?

Roger Coppock wrote:
WARNING! DO NOT DO THIS! ASPHALT ROOFING SHINGLES
ARE TREATED WITH HERBICIDES AND FUNGICIDES! Also,
particulates, many of them poisonous, collect on
roofs during dry spells. Here in Southern California,
we have had fatal incidents of poisoning by collected
rainwater runoff from roofs. Trying to use shingles
as garden mulch is not a good idea to say the least.

Yes some are treated as the case of NorthWest USA where moss and other
plants love the living conditions of wet moist asphalt. So they treat
their roof shingles. But I use the untreated roof shingles. And I
suspect that I have started and created an entire new industry for
asphalt roof shingles as plant mulch. Where some are treated in the
future to contain slow release fertilizer and are designed specifically
for mulch. Currently I bend and fold my shingles when I want to size
them for a situation when a small piece is wanted instead of the full
length and that annoying plastic thin strip in the middle often becomes
loose so that problem can be alleviated with ready made shingles for
mulch purpose. But then again these specialty shingles for mulch would
command a higher price than roofing and so I would stick with the
regular untreated roofing shingles.

The above complaint by Roger is unwarranted for untreated roof
shingles. Has Roger ever realized that most tar paper pots are just a
another application of roof shingles to that of horticulture. I mean,
obviously if pots are made of the same material as roof shingles it
stands to reason that plants would do okay perhaps even thrive.

And there are other benefits such as lying flat so the mower does not
chew them up-- the heavier weight shingles not the lightweight
shingles. And the benefit for those alkaline-base soil pH such as mine
benefit from the sulfur and acid content of shingles that slowly
leaches into the surrounding soil. If your soil is highly acid already
then maybe shingles would not be a good idea-- I have not seen shingles
applied to acid soils to know if they are harmful.

There is one disadvantage that I know of which I am currently
evaluating is the fact of ants and their desire to nest under forms of
cover such as mulch. I do not know if ants eat the roots of the nearby
plants which they are nesting. The verdict is still open as to whether
ants damage the tree for which they nest in the mulch.

But I use roof shingles also as border edging to my onion gardens and
potato gardens and corn rows. The corn seems to love the mulch because
they show no signs of stress to our recent drought.

I hope it rains tonight as forecasted because if it does not rain
tonight there is no other storm system in sight for the next week and
that threatens our area with 2 months without rainfall.

Our ground is starting to "crack open". Anyone know the physics
explanation of why soil and ground makes open cracks upon drying? I
guess the question applies to clay soil not sand because sand does not
crack upon drying. Interesting phenomenon.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

There is one disadvantage that I know of which I am currently
evaluating is the fact of ants and their desire to nest under forms of
cover such as mulch. I do not know if ants eat the roots of the nearby
plants which they are nesting.

There is SO MUCH you don't know about plants it could fill a book -- in
fact, it could fill the exact book you have never read on gardening and
horticulture. Which book is that? Answer: ALL OF THEM. It is obvious
that you have never read a single book all the way through from front
cover to back cover on plants and horticulture. Even if you attempted
to fill in your ignorance on gardening, soil issues, and food
production, you can't even find the appropriate usenet group to post
your questions in.

In article . com, "Dano" wrote:


wrote:
In past years I have tackled dry spells with just pure watering. But
this year I am changing tactic to that of thinking that a good mulch is
even better than watering. I say this because the ground has alot of
moisture and what removes it is evaporation. It evaporates faster than
spot-watering over long stretches of time. What I want to prevent is
the plant from leaf curl and shrivel and the plant turn off metabolism
due to drought conditions. So if I see the plant putting on more new
leaves in drought conditions I know my mulching has been very
effective.

What I use is roofing tar shingles, those asphalt shingles. It
suppresses the weeds around the base of the plant but most importantly
moisture that comes to the surface remains there and not evaporate away
as fast. In past years I have given those plants two 5 gallons of water
every third day. Now I give them just one 5 gallons of water.

[snip]

Wow. Fantastically bad idea.

1. All that absorbed heat will affect plant tissue near shingles.
2. Heavy metals in manufacture.
3. Gas exchange modification.
4. Other mulches return nutrients to the soil (try, say, 8 in, of
straw, or cardboard and grass clippings).
5. You'll look like a kook.

Really. Natural mulches, please.

Note ... A plutonium is a known net loon and troll. Best (in all ways) to
simply ignore him

Thanks

Bruce


-------------------------------------
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.
- George Bernard Shaw
Cynic, n: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
- Ambrose Bierce

Caution ===== followups may have been changed to relevant groups
(if there were any)

wrote:
In past years I have tackled dry spells with just pure watering. But
this year I am changing tactic to that of thinking that a good mulch is
even better than watering. I say this because the ground has alot of
moisture and what removes it is evaporation. It evaporates faster than
spot-watering over long stretches of time. What I want to prevent is
the plant from leaf curl and shrivel and the plant turn off metabolism
due to drought conditions. So if I see the plant putting on more new
leaves in drought conditions I know my mulching has been very
effective.

What I use is roofing tar shingles, those asphalt shingles. It
suppresses the weeds around the base of the plant but most importantly
moisture that comes to the surface remains there and not evaporate away
as fast. In past years I have given those plants two 5 gallons of water
every third day. Now I give them just one 5 gallons of water.

[snip]

Wow. Fantastically bad idea.

1. All that absorbed heat will affect plant tissue near shingles.
2. Heavy metals in manufacture.
3. Gas exchange modification.
4. Other mulches return nutrients to the soil (try, say, 8 in, of
straw, or cardboard and grass clippings).
5. You'll look like a kook.

Really. Natural mulches, please.

D

Dano wrote:


Wow. Fantastically bad idea.

1. All that absorbed heat will affect plant tissue near shingles.
2. Heavy metals in manufacture.
3. Gas exchange modification.
4. Other mulches return nutrients to the soil (try, say, 8 in, of
straw, or cardboard and grass clippings).
5. You'll look like a kook.

Really. Natural mulches, please.

D

Tar paper pots that many plants come in. Take tar-paper pots to each of
your above and see how silly and stupid is your attitude and argument.

Why is it so difficult for a given mind, a given person to be objective
rather than subjective. To be able to make a list of objective
arguments rather than a list of subjective hogwash which merely echoes
ad hominem.

Perhaps graduate schools of all the sciences should have a course where
not only is ethics and morals taught but where students are give a test
that measures whether their personality is such that they would not be
good in making science their career.

Many of the posters on the internet to the sci newsgroups who have a
degree in science, judging from their accumulating posts should have
their science degree revoked. The idea that when a student graduates
from University in a science carries that degree no matter what further
happens in his/her life should be changed to that of a possible
revoking of that degree because the person is more anti-science and has
abandoned the objectivity that science demands.

So tell me, if tar-paper pots are commonly used then what exactly is
wrong with tar shingles for mulch?

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

In article . com, wrote:


Dano wrote:


Wow. Fantastically bad idea.

1. All that absorbed heat will affect plant tissue near shingles.
2. Heavy metals in manufacture.
3. Gas exchange modification.
4. Other mulches return nutrients to the soil (try, say, 8 in, of
straw, or cardboard and grass clippings).
5. You'll look like a kook.

Really. Natural mulches, please.

D

Tar paper pots that many plants come in. Take tar-paper pots to each of
your above and see how silly and stupid is your attitude and argument.

Why is it so difficult for a given mind, a given person to be objective
rather than subjective. To be able to make a list of objective
arguments rather than a list of subjective hogwash which merely echoes
ad hominem.

Perhaps graduate schools of all the sciences should have a course where
not only is ethics and morals taught but where students are give a test
that measures whether their personality is such that they would not be
good in making science their career.


Dishwashing 101 comes to mind.

Many of the posters on the internet to the sci newsgroups who have a
degree in science, judging from their accumulating posts should have
their science degree revoked. The idea that when a student graduates
from University in a science carries that degree no matter what further
happens in his/her life should be changed to that of a possible
revoking of that degree because the person is more anti-science and has
abandoned the objectivity that science demands.


Disagreeing with you does not appear to be grounds for revoking someone's
degree.

When do they want your diploma back?


So tell me, if tar-paper pots are commonly used then what exactly is
wrong with tar shingles for mulch?


Amount of material, unless you make *really* thick-walled pots..
Other materials in the shingles - see above.
Persistence in the environment - see above.

Number 5 does not apply. That assessment has already been made.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Dano wrote:






Wow. Fantastically bad idea.

1. All that absorbed heat will affect plant tissue near shingles.
2. Heavy metals in manufacture.
3. Gas exchange modification.
4. Other mulches return nutrients to the soil (try, say, 8 in, of
straw, or cardboard and grass clippings).
5. You'll look like a kook.

Really. Natural mulches, please.

D


Tar paper pots that many plants come in. Take tar-paper pots to each of
your above and see how silly and stupid is your attitude and argument.

Why is it so difficult for a given mind, a given person to be objective
rather than subjective. To be able to make a list of objective
arguments rather than a list of subjective hogwash which merely echoes
ad hominem.

Perhaps graduate schools of all the sciences should have a course where
not only is ethics and morals taught but where students are give a test
that measures whether their personality is such that they would not be
good in making science their career.

Many of the posters on the internet to the sci newsgroups who have a
degree in science, judging from their accumulating posts and their
pattern of abuse such as Uncle Al-- Alan Schwartz as one example should
have their science degree revoked. Anti-science behaviour, a pattern of
behaviour such as Alan Schwartz of the inability to be objective and
constantly ad hominem and subjectivity of loss of objectivity should be
rewarded by a revoking of their degree in science.The idea that when a
student graduates from University in a science carries that degree no
matter what further happens in his/her life should be changed to that
of a possible revoking of that degree because the person is more
anti-science and has abandoned the objectivity that science demands.

So tell me, if tar-paper pots are commonly used then what exactly is
wrong with tar shingles for mulch?

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

David Bostwick wrote:
In article . com, wrote:


Dano wrote:


Wow. Fantastically bad idea.

1. All that absorbed heat will affect plant tissue near shingles.
2. Heavy metals in manufacture.
3. Gas exchange modification.
4. Other mulches return nutrients to the soil (try, say, 8 in, of
straw, or cardboard and grass clippings).
5. You'll look like a kook.

Really. Natural mulches, please.

D

Tar paper pots that many plants come in. Take tar-paper pots to each of
your above and see how silly and stupid is your attitude and argument.

Why is it so difficult for a given mind, a given person to be objective
rather than subjective. To be able to make a list of objective
arguments rather than a list of subjective hogwash which merely echoes
ad hominem.

Perhaps graduate schools of all the sciences should have a course where
not only is ethics and morals taught but where students are give a test
that measures whether their personality is such that they would not be
good in making science their career.



Dishwashing 101 comes to mind.


Many of the posters on the internet to the sci newsgroups who have a
degree in science, judging from their accumulating posts should have
their science degree revoked. The idea that when a student graduates

from University in a science carries that degree no matter what further

happens in his/her life should be changed to that of a possible
revoking of that degree because the person is more anti-science and has
abandoned the objectivity that science demands.



Disagreeing with you does not appear to be grounds for revoking someone's
degree.

When do they want your diploma back?



So tell me, if tar-paper pots are commonly used then what exactly is
wrong with tar shingles for mulch?



Amount of material, unless you make *really* thick-walled pots..
Other materials in the shingles - see above.
Persistence in the environment - see above.

Number 5 does not apply. That assessment has already been made.


Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies



Apparently some posts are getting through but not showing up on Google.
Maybe Google is down or maybe someone has found a way of censorship of
"no see um" and censoring the posts of Archimedes Plutonium.

Both Uncle Al-- Alan Schwartz and David Bostwick have a history of
Internet posts of an abusive pattern of ad hominem. Hate spamming and
inability to discuss objectively. Both should have their degree in
science, provided they have a degree, revoked. In society when we award
people with honors and merits we also revoke for those who reflect
negatively on their career field. Who have a pattern of abuse that is
counter to science. When people become criminals they are revoked of
voting and other civil liberties. When people fan hatred and ad hominem
to the extent of Alan Schwartz and David Bostwick they should have their
degrees in science revoked.

Can someone tell me why Google is not showing up my posts of the
previous night and today as per the newsgroups of sci.physics.fusion and
sci.bio.botany on the subjects of ITER and tree mulch??

Is someone censoring Archimedes Plutonium? I did post a flammatory post
about the Iraq exit strategy and perhaps it was so flammatory that the
US govt has placed a "no see um censor" on my posts.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

Today I have even more evidence that roof shingles are good mulch. I
had about 30 containers of white-willow cuttings in large plastic pots
that I water each day. But since the drought is upon our area I took
some roof asphalt shingles and divided them into smaller strips in
order to fit into the top of the pot leaving a gap to water. I did this
for 15 of the 30 pots and the result is that of the 15 covered with
roof shingles there are 3 of them today that have taken root and
throwing up new leaves. As for the other 15 pots not a single one of
them has shown signs of forming roots and new leaves. So I covered the
other 15 with roof asphalt shingles.

Another evidence of proof is that of my 25 apricot trees one of them is
the tallest and dark green whereas the others are showing signs of the
drought stress. But this tallest tree is the tree where I simply
placed bundles of roof shingles to be later used and spread on other
plants. So what happened was that because this particular apricot tree
had its ground covered completely with many tar shingles that it
benefited the tree the most and it grew the tallest and not stressed by
the drought. It is about 20 feet tall and I pulled away some of the
bundles today to see the condition of the soil and as I pulled away the
lowest layers of shingles the soil was moist even though it has not
rained for approx 5 weeks.

The plants most affected in my orchards are currants and rhubarb. In
the last 2 days I was able to apply more asphalt roof shingles to my
currants and rhubarb and after I do, I apply about 2.5 gallons of water
to the plant. The currants given this treatment of mulch and water are
robust green and not shriveled leaves. The currants I have not gotten
to as of yet are shriveled. Tomorrow I hope to treat the last remaining
currants.

Today and the day before I covered the tomatoes that were planted
inside the holes of concrete block. So the application of tar roof
shingles is straightforward of abutting a shingle up against the block.
And I did not have time to water those tomatoes, just mulch them. And
when I examined those tomatoes today, they were not shriveled and
seemed to have revived simply on the mulch application. I think what
happened was that the mulch slowly kills the grass that the shingle
covers and in the process of killing the grass releases moisture from
the grass back into the soil which the tomato is benefiting.

I am convinced that the way to combat drought is not just pure watering
but a combination of mulching and watering. And the plant needs less
water once a mulch is applied. And the mulch itself is more important
than the water because the mulch retains the moisture in the soil from
evaporating away.

I have a feeling or impression that like tar paper pots, that tar roof
shingles are the best mulch in the world because they last for years,
retain moisture and condition the soil pH and do not hinder lawnmowing.
Trouble with the old mulches is that they never provided the water
retention that tar shingles provide.

Lastly, I want to mention that the best raspberries I have ever grown
was some hedge row of raspberries that inadvertently I had discarded
old roof tar shingles and those raspberries seemed to have loved that
pile of roof shingles.
My only trouble with raspberries is that I cannot cover them too much
with roof shingles because the new runner plants need to penetrate the
surface.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

wrote in message
oups.com...
There is one disadvantage that I know of which I am currently
evaluating is the fact of ants and their desire to nest under forms of
cover such as mulch. I do not know if ants eat the roots of the nearby
plants which they are nesting.

There is SO MUCH you don't know about plants it could fill a book -- in
fact, it could fill the exact book you have never read on gardening and
horticulture. Which book is that? Answer: ALL OF THEM. It is obvious
that you have never read a single book all the way through from front
cover to back cover on plants and horticulture. Even if you attempted
to fill in your ignorance on gardening, soil issues, and food
production, you can't even find the appropriate usenet group to post
your questions in.



True, yet you have only scratched the surface of Archie's incompetence.
While most of us remain ignorant of most subjects, Archie has managed to
seemingly remain ignorant of ALL subjects. This form exists as study to
find some subject which Archie can accidentally stumble across a correct
concept.








We are still waiting.

--

Dr. Dickie
More to come...

Archimedes Plutonium writes:
In past years I have tackled dry spells with just pure watering. But
this year I am changing tactic to that of thinking that a good mulch is
even better than watering.

A wise move.

What I use is roofing tar shingles, those asphalt shingles. It

Not such a wise move. The tar in asphalt contains a cocktail of
carcinogens. Most are volatile, but I reckon there would be enough
residual in the tiles that I wouldn't want it leached into soil around
my fruit trees. Use flat rocks instead of the tiles. Not only do rocks
keep in the moisture, but they keep the soil from cooling down during the
night and this promotes plant growth. A handful of compostible material
under the rocks is advisable.

There was a scientist who achieved notority for his contribution to
greening the desert: each time he'd plant a tree he'd place a rock
alongside it. Quite apart from the beneficial moderation of moisture and
temperature extremes, but he noticed how each rock created a microhabitat
for an earthworm, and it was this earthworm that benefited the soil and
thus the tree. The worm could 'till' many metres up and down in the soil
under the rock without the risk of being cooked or dessicated when near
the surface--but trees that did not offer the protection of a nearby rock
were found to lack this symbiotic earthworm activity.
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)

John I cannot work with rocks because they so often catch my mower.

I do agree about earthworms and hope that the asphalt shingles increase
the earthworm population.

But I suspect the carcinogen claim or claim of bad chemicals in the
shingles are false claims. People think there are bad chemicals but
have no data.

I suspect that any chemicals in the roof shingles are broken down by
the time they become degraded into the soil.

Can you list, John, a list of the top five bad chemicals in these roof
shingles that you claim would end up in the soil. Again, I would
estimate that all the chemicals would be degraded and altered by the
time the shingles became soil.

I would further guess that any fruit tree or plant that has shingle
mulch compared to non shingle mulch fruit tree that if examined for bad
chemicals as a result of the asphalt. That there would not be any
difference between the two. Apple from an apple tree that uses asphalt
shingle mulch tested against an apple not using those shingles, my
guess is that there is no bad chemical in either one.

Can you provide a list of 5 chemicals you claim are carcinogens in
asphalt shingles and whether those 5 can be uptaken into the plant
tissue. I doubt it.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies