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#1
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Brown water!
Hi, fellow ponders, and thanks for being there.
I did something dumb. I was trying to build a nice buffer in my pond and added a bunch of landscaping lime in pellet form. Immediately, the pond turned a cloudy brown, and it has remained cloudy and brown now for weeks. I checked the manufacturer of the lime to see if it had any tannins or iron, but there was none mentioned in their literature, so I am thinking it must be just plain old mud. Is this going to hurt the fish? Recommendations for how to clean this mess up without changing water? My water is *finally* starting to mature and I hate to rock the boat. Thanks. Joan in Oregon P.S. Great idea about setting up a moderated group. Thanks to whomever went to the trouble to get this going! |
#2
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Brown water!
Hi Joan,
Welcome to rpm. I hope you will get some good advice from the group here. Jim |
#3
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Brown water!
did you get a pH on the water? landscape lime could be quicklime and
drive the pH up over 8. you need dolomitic limestone, it is almost like sand, off white with dark gray flecks, a little course. Ingrid On Tue, 8 May 2007 05:49:53 CST, Joan wrote: Hi, fellow ponders, and thanks for being there. I did something dumb. I was trying to build a nice buffer in my pond and added a bunch of landscaping lime in pellet form. Immediately, the pond turned a cloudy brown, and it has remained cloudy and brown now for weeks. I checked the manufacturer of the lime to see if it had any tannins or iron, but there was none mentioned in their literature, so I am thinking it must be just plain old mud. Is this going to hurt the fish? Recommendations for how to clean this mess up without changing water? My water is *finally* starting to mature and I hate to rock the boat. Thanks. Joan in Oregon P.S. Great idea about setting up a moderated group. Thanks to whomever went to the trouble to get this going! |
#4
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Brown water!
"Joan" wrote in message
... Hi, fellow ponders, and thanks for being there. I did something dumb. I was trying to build a nice buffer in my pond and added a bunch of landscaping lime in pellet form. Immediately, the pond turned a cloudy brown, and it has remained cloudy and brown now for weeks. I checked the manufacturer of the lime to see if it had any tannins or iron, but there was none mentioned in their literature, so I am thinking it must be just plain old mud. Is this going to hurt the fish? Recommendations for how to clean this mess up without changing water? My water is *finally* starting to mature and I hate to rock the boat. Thanks. Joan in Oregon P.S. Great idea about setting up a moderated group. Thanks to whomever went to the trouble to get this going! We used the garden lime in one of our ponds when we first started it up about 10 years ago. My filter (upflow gravel) was able to trap the lime onto the surface of the gravel. Water cleared within a few days. To remove the lime, you might try the quilt batting that some use for removal of some of the green water algae. If there is very much of the lime in the pond, it will clog the quilt batting quickly, so it may need to be cleaned several times. |
#5
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Brown water!
The stuff I used is called dolomite lime. It contains mostly calcium
carbonate and magnesium carbonate. The pH has been fairly stable from day to day and is ranging from 7.5 in the AM to 8.5 at the end of the day. I am also having a big algae bloom, and I have some elodea, so I think that is partly responsible for the swings. I also have barley bales in there and I'm netting out what algae I can. My buffering capacity is still on the low side, so I got some oyster shells for koi ponds and have them in a bag. So far, so dramatic change. I am trying to do whatever I do *carefully* and *slowly* and only after a great deal of thought of the pro's and cons. Oy. Joan did you get a pH on the water? landscape lime could be quicklime and drive the pH up over 8. you need dolomitic limestone, it is almost like sand, off white with dark gray flecks, a little course. Ingrid |
#6
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Brown water!
Oh okay, thanks. My only filter is a big bag of lava rock at the top of my waterfall (in the plastic box where the water comes back in) with plants growing on top of it. I have a skimmer at the other end, where the pump is. Do you mean I should just get some quilt batting and put it in the skimmer? I can do that, and I'd gladly clean it every day if it will help. Do you think that will get that muddy stuff suspended in the water out too? I tried running some of the muddy water through a cotton bag (single thickness) and it didn't do anything at all, but maybe it wasn't thick enough? Thanks. Joan We used the garden lime in one of our ponds when we first started it up about 10 years ago. My filter (upflow gravel) was able to trap the lime onto the surface of the gravel. Water cleared within a few days. To remove the lime, you might try the quilt batting that some use for removal of some of the green water algae. If there is very much of the lime in the pond, it will clog the quilt batting quickly, so it may need to be cleaned several times. |
#7
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Brown water!
On Tue, 8 May 2007 13:00:33 CST, Joan wrote:
The stuff I used is called dolomite lime. It contains mostly calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate. The pH has been fairly stable from day to day and is ranging from 7.5 in the AM to 8.5 at the end of the day. Unfortunately that isn't stable. Your change should only be about 7.5 in the AM to a max of 7.9 in the PM. The problem is your low KH/buffering, as you mentioned, not the plants. This is also why the algae is blooming and why the mud is not settling. Get the KH/buffering up and things will settle down/out. What is the KH of your tap water? If that is good, do a slow flow thru if you can, otherwise 10% water change every other day will not hurt the balance. A flow thru system, with carbon filters on the new water, is being highly recommended in the koi community right now. Where about 10% exchanges over a 24 hour period. This isn't for everyone, especially if your tap water isn't great, or water prices are high. It's more a high-end koi keeper's ideal. I personally have an accidental flow thru, some small leak that drops the level about an inch/day, so I add water when I get home.... I'm still doing a 20% on the weekends. IMO, I'd be using baking soda to get my KH up. About 1 cup/1000 gallons and retest. That pH swing is harder on your fish and filter than adding baking soda. ~ jan ------------ Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
#8
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Brown water!
it isnt the same stuff, most likely. I will say tho, that when we
fill our big ponds out of the well at the dacha the water has a definite whitish cast. it may be possible to remove a lot of that "stuff" with aluminum sulfate aka alum. if your pond is very warm, that algae can suck the CO2 out of the water at night right along with the oxygen. the HARDNESS (forget carbonate for now) is due to calcium and magnesium. oysters only have calcium. but they both do the same thing. they are the main buffering ions, but you can try putting some baking soda, sodium bicarbonate in to increase the carbonate buffer. I think it would be good to start with what is your water like out of the tap??? can anybody remember the url for the florida state article on this topic? Ingrid On Tue, 8 May 2007 13:00:33 CST, Joan wrote: The stuff I used is called dolomite lime. It contains mostly calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate. The pH has been fairly stable from day to day and is ranging from 7.5 in the AM to 8.5 at the end of the day. I am also having a big algae bloom, and I have some elodea, so I think that is partly responsible for the swings. I also have barley bales in there and I'm netting out what algae I can. My buffering capacity is still on the low side, so I got some oyster shells for koi ponds and have them in a bag. So far, so dramatic change. I am trying to do whatever I do *carefully* and *slowly* and only after a great deal of thought of the pro's and cons. Oy. Joan did you get a pH on the water? landscape lime could be quicklime and drive the pH up over 8. you need dolomitic limestone, it is almost like sand, off white with dark gray flecks, a little course. Ingrid |
#9
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Brown water!
The pH has been fairly stable from day to day and is ranging from 7.5 in the AM to 8.5 at the end of the day. Unfortunately that isn't stable. Your change should only be about 7.5 in the AM to a max of 7.9 in the PM. The problem is your low KH/buffering, as you mentioned, not the plants. The KH has been ranging from 89.5 to 107.4. What I mean by stable is that is always about the same when I measure it at the same time each day. Our water is completely soft, so I have been trying for a long time to get both the GH and the KH up and have been using sodium bicarbonate as a temporary booster till I can get enough GH in there to hold the buffering capacity up long-term. I've been seeing the wide diurnal pH swings even when my KH was 100, so I am thinking that the effect of photosynthesis (CO2 consumption) during the day accounts for the high pH at the end of the day. The whole dolomite/mud thing happened because I was trying to get the KH up. :-( I figured I can't keep dumping NaHCO3 in there indefinitely, because eventually the HC03 will get consumed and I'll end up with too much Na in there. I've been adding an awful lot of baking soda in there since the pond was built 2 years ago. Joan This is also why the algae is blooming and why the mud is not settling. Get the KH/buffering up and things will settle down/out. What is the KH of your tap water? If that is good, do a slow flow thru if you can, otherwise 10% water change every other day will not hurt the balance. A flow thru system, with carbon filters on the new water, is being highly recommended in the koi community right now. Where about 10% exchanges over a 24 hour period. This isn't for everyone, especially if your tap water isn't great, or water prices are high. It's more a high-end koi keeper's ideal. I personally have an accidental flow thru, some small leak that drops the level about an inch/day, so I add water when I get home.... I'm still doing a 20% on the weekends. IMO, I'd be using baking soda to get my KH up. About 1 cup/1000 gallons and retest. That pH swing is harder on your fish and filter than adding baking soda. ~ jan ------------ 2Zone 7a, SE Washington State Ponds: www.jjspond.us |
#11
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Brown water!
yes, a flocculent. alum is aluminum sulfate. cheaper to get it but
dont use it in acid ponds or ponds with low hardness. I guess I would start with some water changes to physically get rid of stuff. once you have some liquid calcium or something. call Jo Ann and ask her where she gets hers. She has that acid soft water down in Alabama and they change 3000 gallons per day on their pond for their monster koi. 251-649-4790 Ingrid On Wed, 9 May 2007 12:51:11 CST, Joan wrote: Is that a flocculent? I did add a flocculent once (Pond Care brand); used the recommended dose; no great change. |
#12
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Brown water!
ahh.. at night the plants use up the CO2 to make glucose, dark cycle
of photosynthesis. you ARE on the right track tho, adding calcium/magnesium to the pond. with soft water (water softener or soft acid out of the ground/city?) resist any temptation to use the "pH pill" or plaster of paris, this makes the pH swing wildly for some reason. I think the problem is you added the wrong stuff. Ingrid On Wed, 9 May 2007 12:51:01 CST, Joan wrote: that the effect of photosynthesis (CO2 consumption) during the day accounts for the high pH at the end of the day. The whole dolomite/mud thing happened because I was trying to get the KH up. :-( I figured I can't keep dumping NaHCO3 in there indefinitely, because eventually the HC03 will get consumed and I'll end up with too much Na in there. I've been adding an awful lot of baking soda in there since the pond was built 2 years ago. |
#13
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Brown water!
[snipped for bandwidth]
To remove the lime, you might try the quilt batting that some use for removal of some of the green water algae. If there is very much of the lime in the pond, it will clog the quilt batting quickly, so it may need to be cleaned several times. Okay, got some polyester batting. Put it in my skimmer, over the pump. Added floculant. Added sluge-eating bacteria. Left it overnight. Wow! That stuff really traps some dirt!! The water isn't clear yet, but it's a whole lot better. Now I'd better go out and check on the pH and hardness again, and get some of that liquid lime. THANK YOU, from me and the fish. Joan ___________________ |
#14
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Brown water!
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