Like many the first time I saw fertiliser for ponds I thought thats a
bit expensive I but at least it'll do the job. Later I read in various
places including rec.ponds that fish food adds N(itrogen) and
P(hosphate) leaving the K(alium/potassium/potash) so this was the only
thing in the way of soluble fertiliser to add. Hence I bought some
potassium sulphate which I have been occasionally adding to the pond.
However I also noted that the commercial product also contains iron and
some other nutrients. So I was down the garden center and spotted
something called sequesterene which in big friendly letter says cures
iron deficiency, so I bought it thinking the chelated iron would
substitute for that in the commerial pond fertiliser. However when I got
it home and read the small print the sequesterene says "Harmful to
aquatic organisims, may cause long term adverse effects in the aquatic
enviroment"
Sorry for the long winded intro but my question is whats going on? Is
this a dosage thing, the different form of chelated iron, maybe some
other ingredient that might cause a problem. Most of the active
ingredients seem similar if in different proportions to that in my water
lilly spikes. The only difference seems to be the chelating agents.

Has any one had problems due to iron or manganese shortage?
My lillies didn't grow as vigoursly last year as previous years, so I'm
trying to get a handle on what might be going on.
Peter Breed

"Peter Breed" wrote in message
...
However when I got
it home and read the small print the sequesterene says "Harmful to aquatic
organisims, may cause long term adverse effects in the aquatic enviroment"

bevity snips
=======================
I use Ironite in the pots when I pot up my pond plants, plus a broken bit of
Jobe's Rose Sticks. I add 1 heaping tbs. of Potassium per 1000g to the
ponds as needed. For some reason this year the water lettuce isn't going as
crazy. I don't know what could be missing.
--
RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
ISP: Hughes.net
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

In message , Reel McKoi
writes

"Peter Breed" wrote in message news:f2qhv8$l
...
However when I got
it home and read the small print the sequesterene says "Harmful to
aquatic organisims, may cause long term adverse effects in the
aquatic enviroment"

bevity snips
=======================
I use Ironite in the pots when I pot up my pond plants, plus a broken
bit of Jobe's Rose Sticks. I add 1 heaping tbs. of Potassium per 1000g
to the ponds as needed. For some reason this year the water lettuce
isn't going as crazy. I don't know what could be missing.


For those of us outside of the US of A, what precisely is the Ironite
you refer to?
(www.ironite.com lists a handful of general(ish) fertilizers).
Also what form do you use for your potassium input?

For Peter (who is UK based by the address), based on much research and
history of fertilizer threads in rec.ponds, I come up with this mix of
cheap readily available products :-

Potassium - Use potassium chloride, aka "Lo Salt" from the super market
(66% KCl, 33% NaCl, which of course added to the pond anyways for fishy
reasons). Also used Potassium Nitate sometimes to no ill effect.

Magnesium Sulphate / Epsom salts (Garden centre in JA Bower boxes).

Chelated Iron (EDDHA, 6% Fe).
Chelated trace elements.

These last two are available as ChemPak brand at some garden centres,
else both under trace elements on www.gardendirect.co.uk.

The chelated iron is what, I think, gives those expensive snake-oil pond
fertilizers from the pond shops the deep purple/brown colour.

Dosing : following is per cubic meter (1000ltrs), of dry product weighed
with electronic scales.
LoSalt 3ppm K equivalent, 8.7g
Chel. Iron, 0.1ppm Fe, 1.6g

I've seem 0.25ppm recommended for Iron, but never had the nerve to add
that much!

(1ppm = 1mg/litre = 1g / cubic meter)

The other two are a bit uncertain, generally I add Epsom Salts to about
half the weight of the LoSalt, and trace elements about the same weight
as the Chel-Fe. More or less once a week or two, or three.

Seems to work, but I'd welcome any other input on dosing levels.



--
Steven

"Steven Briggs" wrote in message
...
In message , Reel McKoi

For those of us outside of the US of A, what precisely is the Ironite
you refer to?

It's a gray colored product that looks like gray clay kitty litter. It
comes in small boxes or larger bags for garden use.

(www.ironite.com lists a handful of general(ish) fertilizers).
Also what form do you use for your potassium input?

I'm using Muriate of Potash, a while crystal like product.

For Peter (who is UK based by the address), based on much research and
history of fertilizer threads in rec.ponds, I come up with this mix of
cheap readily available products :-

Potassium - Use potassium chloride, aka "Lo Salt" from the super market
(66% KCl, 33% NaCl, which of course added to the pond anyways for fishy
reasons). Also used Potassium Nitate sometimes to no ill effect.

Magnesium Sulphate / Epsom salts (Garden centre in JA Bower boxes).

Yes, I've added that in the past but never saw any benefit to the plants.


Chelated Iron (EDDHA, 6% Fe).
Chelated trace elements.

These last two are available as ChemPak brand at some garden centres,
else both under trace elements on www.gardendirect.co.uk.

They may have it here but I haven't seen it.

The chelated iron is what, I think, gives those expensive snake-oil pond
fertilizers from the pond shops the deep purple/brown colour.

brevity snips

That they charge pond owners so much really galls me. I seldom buy anything
for "ponders."


RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
ISP: Hughes.net
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

Peter Breed wrote:
Like many the first time I saw fertiliser for ponds I thought thats a
bit expensive I but at least it'll do the job. Later I read in various
places including rec.ponds that fish food adds N(itrogen) and
P(hosphate) leaving the K(alium/potassium/potash) so this was the only
thing in the way of soluble fertiliser to add. Hence I bought some
potassium sulphate which I have been occasionally adding to the pond.
However I also noted that the commercial product also contains iron and
some other nutrients. So I was down the garden center and spotted
something called sequesterene which in big friendly letter says cures
iron deficiency, so I bought it thinking the chelated iron would
substitute for that in the commerial pond fertiliser. However when I got
it home and read the small print the sequesterene says "Harmful to
aquatic organisims, may cause long term adverse effects in the aquatic
enviroment"
Sorry for the long winded intro but my question is whats going on? Is
this a dosage thing, the different form of chelated iron, maybe some
other ingredient that might cause a problem. Most of the active
ingredients seem similar if in different proportions to that in my water
lilly spikes. The only difference seems to be the chelating agents.

Has any one had problems due to iron or manganese shortage?
My lillies didn't grow as vigoursly last year as previous years, so I'm
trying to get a handle on what might be going on.
Peter Breed

The name Sequestrene was familiar enough that I got curious and went
searching for it in the aquatic plant forums I frequent. Turns out
there's not much information at all. A few Europeans mention using
EDDHA-iron in aquariums, and nobody has said it killed their fish. It
could certainly be a dosage thing but that label is pretty scary. :-/

I found a lot of mention of Chempak Trace Elements from UK aquarists.
The Chempak mix has the cheaper, more common EDTA iron. Maybe you could
find that brand since EDTA chelates are a bit more tried and true.

Iron/mangnese shortage is hard to miss. The plants get chlorotic with
pale or yellow tissue between green veins. I'm still learning to grow
lilies myself so I hope someone else can help more with the troubleshooting.

--
My other fish and pond forum is:
http://groups.google.com/group/The-Freshwater-Aquarium
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

On Tue, 22 May 2007 01:56:38 CST, Altum wrote:


Iron/mangnese shortage is hard to miss. The plants get chlorotic with
pale or yellow tissue between green veins. I'm still learning to grow
lilies myself so I hope someone else can help more with the troubleshooting.

What a lot of ponders/gardeners miss, is that one can add all the iron, but
if the pH is too high for that plant to take it up, it won't help.

I usually ask people what their pond pH is before suggesting adding liquid
fertilizers. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
What a lot of ponders/gardeners miss, is that one can add all the iron,
but
if the pH is too high for that plant to take it up, it won't help.
snips
============================
I'm pretty sure this is my problem. The PH goes from 7.8 to 8.2. I leave it
as is as I don't want to get into the PH yo-yo syndrome. The fish have
adapted to the high PH but the plants aren't always too happy.
--
RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
ISP: Hughes.net
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö

~ jan wrote:
On Tue, 22 May 2007 01:56:38 CST, Altum wrote:

Iron/mangnese shortage is hard to miss. The plants get chlorotic with
pale or yellow tissue between green veins. I'm still learning to grow
lilies myself so I hope someone else can help more with the troubleshooting.

What a lot of ponders/gardeners miss, is that one can add all the iron, but
if the pH is too high for that plant to take it up, it won't help.

I usually ask people what their pond pH is before suggesting adding liquid
fertilizers. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Intresting - there does seem to an issue with stability of some of the
chelating agents (or more specifically the complexes) depending on pH.
My pH has always been high though I can't be more specific at the moment
as my new pH meter is in the post. I would say that while my irises have
always grown very well they do seem slightly on the pale side.
Having tried to address my high pH in the past I had decided to go with
the theory that if the fish are happy don't mess around with the
chemistry too much. When that pH meter arrives I think some bucket
experiments are in order.

Peter
Leicestershire,
England

In message , Altum
writes
The name Sequestrene was familiar enough that I got curious and went
searching for it in the aquatic plant forums I frequent. Turns out
there's not much information at all. A few Europeans mention using
EDDHA-iron in aquariums, and nobody has said it killed their fish. It
could certainly be a dosage thing but that label is pretty scary. :-/

I found a lot of mention of Chempak Trace Elements from UK aquarists.
The Chempak mix has the cheaper, more common EDTA iron. Maybe you
could find that brand since EDTA chelates are a bit more tried and true.
Chempak have three chelated iron products as stand-alone items, the one
tagged for pH 8+ is EDDHA, which is what I use. Even at 0.1ppm iron
dose, it colours the pond water for a few days.
The aquarium iron test kit I bought recommends 0.25ppm iron ISTR.


Iron/mangnese shortage is hard to miss. The plants get chlorotic with
pale or yellow tissue between green veins. I'm still learning to grow
lilies myself so I hope someone else can help more with the
troubleshooting.


--
steve

In message , Reel McKoi
writes

"~ jan" wrote in message
.. .
What a lot of ponders/gardeners miss, is that one can add all the
iron, but
if the pH is too high for that plant to take it up, it won't help.
snips
============================
I'm pretty sure this is my problem. The PH goes from 7.8 to 8.2. I
leave it as is as I don't want to get into the PH yo-yo syndrome. The
fish have adapted to the high PH but the plants aren't always too happy.
I think I have a similar issue really, pH 8.0 - 8.5, but stable and the
fish are happy, so I leave it be these days.
--
steve

On Tue, 22 May 2007 13:28:23 CST, Peter Breed
wrote:

Intresting - there does seem to an issue with stability of some of the
chelating agents (or more specifically the complexes) depending on pH.
My pH has always been high though I can't be more specific at the moment
as my new pH meter is in the post.

This is a great chart to reference regarding pH and plant uptake of
different nutrients:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yweqz7

IME, when pH gets above 8.5 things seem to slow down growth wise, and WH in
particular just seems to starve.

I would say that while my irises have
always grown very well they do seem slightly on the pale side.

This can also be due to water temperature. Albinism in some plants can be a
side affect of low temp. When my spring water temps have stayed in the 50's
too long, while the day length is telling the iris to grow, I've gotten
almost white leaves. Warmer temps and they greened right up.

Having tried to address my high pH in the past I had decided to go with
the theory that if the fish are happy don't mess around with the
chemistry too much. When that pH meter arrives I think some bucket
experiments are in order.
Peter
Leicestershire,
England

Looking forward to what your readings are, I might be able to help, without
messing too much with the chemistry and/or pouring stuff in. Do you know
your KH reading? ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us