I have a Concrete pond that was here when I bought the house about ten years
ago and the water level goes down rather fast. I see that who ever built the
pond applied some sort of sealant on the bottom of the pond "off whitish
color" and the water seems to stay at that level. I have heard of G4 Sealant
but don't know where to buy it and how expensive it is. The pond is not
smooth, it looks like a rake and shoe imprint were used. What kind of
sealant can be used and also where can it be bought. I live in Tacoma
Washington. I had goldfish in it and they survived until the raccoons got
them.

Thanks,

--

Larry D. Gibbs

http://www.larrygibbs.com/
Only left handed people are in their right mind.

Any of the concrete sealants will require the pond be thoroughly cleaned.
The algae on the side will prevent bond of the sealant to the concrete. A
good sealant is ThoroSeal. It is a cement based sealant that is painted
onto the surface. Use the acrylic bonding/waterproofing additive Acryl 60
with it for extra waterproofing and better durability. I would mix it thick
and trowel it onto the surface to give a smoother finish than what you
describe is currently there. That will give some additional thickness that
will help it bridge any fine cracks that are causing leaks. Because it is a
cement based product if there are moving cracks, it will crack. An
alternate sealant is a liquid neoprene type sealant like Herco H55 from
AquaticEco. This would be more flexible, and therefore less likely to
crack, but it is very expensive.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Larry D. Gibbs" wrote in message
news:PEcwa.833099$L1.242015@sccrnsc02...
I have a Concrete pond that was here when I bought the house about ten
years
ago and the water level goes down rather fast. I see that who ever built
the
pond applied some sort of sealant on the bottom of the pond "off whitish
color" and the water seems to stay at that level. I have heard of G4
Sealant
but don't know where to buy it and how expensive it is. The pond is not
smooth, it looks like a rake and shoe imprint were used. What kind of
sealant can be used and also where can it be bought. I live in Tacoma
Washington. I had goldfish in it and they survived until the raccoons got
them.

Thanks,

--

Larry D. Gibbs

http://www.larrygibbs.com/
Only left handed people are in their right mind.

Why not just put a liner in it? Future cracks would then be a non-issue.
Just my $0.02 worth
Paul



"Larry D. Gibbs" wrote in message
news:PEcwa.833099$L1.242015@sccrnsc02...
I have a Concrete pond that was here when I bought the house about ten
years
ago and the water level goes down rather fast. I see that who ever built
the
pond applied some sort of sealant on the bottom of the pond "off whitish
color" and the water seems to stay at that level. I have heard of G4
Sealant
but don't know where to buy it and how expensive it is. The pond is not
smooth, it looks like a rake and shoe imprint were used. What kind of
sealant can be used and also where can it be bought. I live in Tacoma
Washington. I had goldfish in it and they survived until the raccoons got
them.

Thanks,

--

Larry D. Gibbs

http://www.larrygibbs.com/
Only left handed people are in their right mind.

I've fought with my concrete pond for 10 years. I've tried everything:
hydraulic cement, waterproof concrete patches, epoxy paint, fiberglass. I'm
giving up and getting a liner.

Concrete ponds come with *many* problems. Here's a few:

1) You cannot find the holes & cracks. A very tiny hole will cause your
pond level to drop an inch every few days. Once there's water & algae &
bottom-gunk, you will not be able to find that tiny hole. I have tried
everything: dyetracers (they don't work in anything except crystal clear
water -- the murky grey of a watergarden obliviates the dye. Ultrasonic
leak detectors (small leaks don't make enough noise to detect). Hourly
level monitors (doesn't localize the hole, and completely fail when there's
multiple leaks -- as is common for concrete ponds).

2) Concrete ponds shift & crack. No matter how strong you make 'em (and
mine is made very strong), there's bound to be a little movement over the
years, as the earth settles, the temperature changes, roots grow underneath,
there's a frost heave, a minor earthquake, or the rebar/chickenwire rusts.
Even a slight movement will cause a crack. And then as your pond level
drops... Happened to me once when I was on vacation. Returned to a little
pool of slop and dead fish.

3) Concrete can't move. You cannot change the pond later on, to
accomodate your wishes 5 or 10 years later. When you sell your place, the
new owners might not like your water garden (for instance, they may have
young children and worry about drowning & liability). A shovel &
wheelbarrow will get rid of a liner-pond. Concrete wants a jackhammer and
backhoe.

4) There are lots of "concrete sealants" and "waterproof coatings" ...
none work very well. Most are sold for "not-below-waterline" use. All
require completely clean concrete in order to work. And you never really
know if you did a good patch job until you fill the pond and wait a week.
(Oh, the stories I can tell you about refilling a pond, putting the plants &
fish back in, only to watch the level drop...)

4) Any piercings will leak ... I advised my kids' school not to make a
concrete pond for the above 3 reasons, but they went ahead anyways. A ton
of rebar & chickenwire and seventy five sacks of concrete later, they have a
concrete pond that leaks. Amongst the leaking sites are where the fool
installed a bottom-drain. Turns out that plastic pipe has a different
coefficient of thermal expansion from concrete. So every time the
temperature changes, the school has to top off the pond ... about twenty
gallons a day.

5) Want to clean concrete to prepare it for patching? Use 30% hydrocloric
acid. You get a suffocating greenish gas, which really does a number on
nearby flora & fauna.

6) Concrete ponds are rarely designed for the actual loads they carry.
Contractors usually dig a hole, line it with rebar & suchnot, then slather
on concrete. But what are the stresses in the structure? Where will cracks
most likely occur? Concrete contractors are accustomed to small crack in a
house's foundation won't affect its structural integrity. But even a tiny
crack in a concrete pond will lose ten gallons a day.

7) Compared to lined ponds, concrete ponds are way more expensive to
install, expensive to maintain, and expensive to remove. Replacing a $250
poly liner is nothing compared to a week of fiberglassing the walls of a
pond.

Over the past 10 years, I've maintained (or help fix) three concrete
ponds. I advised a friend & a school against building concrete ponds, only
to watch go ahead and build their dream ponds. Sure 'nuff, the
friend/school came back to me, asking for aid in patching the leaks.

So my advise to anyone even thinking about a concrete pond: Don't.
-Cliff 14 May 2003



"Paul in Redland" wrote in message
...
Why not just put a liner in it? Future cracks would then be a non-issue.
Just my $0.02 worth
Paul



"Larry D. Gibbs" wrote in message
news:PEcwa.833099$L1.242015@sccrnsc02...
I have a Concrete pond that was here when I bought the house about ten
years
ago and the water level goes down rather fast. I see that who ever built
the
pond applied some sort of sealant on the bottom of the pond "off whitish
color" and the water seems to stay at that level. I have heard of G4
Sealant
but don't know where to buy it and how expensive it is. The pond is not
smooth, it looks like a rake and shoe imprint were used. What kind of
sealant can be used and also where can it be bought. I live in Tacoma
Washington. I had goldfish in it and they survived until the raccoons
got
them.

Thanks,

--

Larry D. Gibbs

http://www.larrygibbs.com/
Only left handed people are in their right mind.

Sorry that you have had such trouble with "concrete ponds".
Sounds like poor/inadequate initial installation.
I have switched from liner to gunnite. That was a number of years back.
The gunnite is lifetime guaranteed against cracking/leaking, (and that is
the lifetime I/my wife own our home.)
It was sealed, (I picked the color brown to match earth bottom ponds) at the
time of installation, which also makes it totally fish safe, with no
additional paints/sealants ever required.
The total /materials/installation/sealing, cost only $1,800 more than a
nursery's estimate to me for installing the same size pond, (but half the
depth!!).
It has a plant shelf, bottom drain, skimmer, etc, all feature I designed and
the contractors incorporated.
Our winters here (Buffalo, NY area) have lots of frost damage, lots of snow,
etc, and it has survived better than any liner pond I have put in (been
doing those since 1981).
It costs more than a do-it-yourself installation.. no argument there, but
not much more than a nursery installation.
The basic pond can't be changed of course, but you can easily add secondary
bogs, ponds, streams, falls, etc.
If you don't go with gunnite, and installers who know what they are doing,
you may be subject to the issues written in the previous posts... no
question about that.
Think of your neighbors with gunnited pools. How many of them have leaks?
Anything not installed to spec (which takes into account your climate,
nature of your soil, etc.) will fail, no matter what material is used.
So now you have another opinion to consider.
Happy ponding,
Greg
PS Sakrete is fine for post holes, but for a pond, no way!


"Kleinbottler" wrote in message
.com...
I've fought with my concrete pond for 10 years. I've tried everything:
hydraulic cement, waterproof concrete patches, epoxy paint, fiberglass.
I'm
giving up and getting a liner.

Concrete ponds come with *many* problems. Here's a few:

1) You cannot find the holes & cracks. A very tiny hole will cause your
pond level to drop an inch every few days. Once there's water & algae &
bottom-gunk, you will not be able to find that tiny hole. I have tried
everything: dyetracers (they don't work in anything except crystal clear
water -- the murky grey of a watergarden obliviates the dye. Ultrasonic
leak detectors (small leaks don't make enough noise to detect). Hourly
level monitors (doesn't localize the hole, and completely fail when
there's
multiple leaks -- as is common for concrete ponds).

2) Concrete ponds shift & crack. No matter how strong you make 'em (and
mine is made very strong), there's bound to be a little movement over the
years, as the earth settles, the temperature changes, roots grow
underneath,
there's a frost heave, a minor earthquake, or the rebar/chickenwire rusts.
Even a slight movement will cause a crack. And then as your pond level
drops... Happened to me once when I was on vacation. Returned to a
little
pool of slop and dead fish.

3) Concrete can't move. You cannot change the pond later on, to
accomodate your wishes 5 or 10 years later. When you sell your place, the
new owners might not like your water garden (for instance, they may have
young children and worry about drowning & liability). A shovel &
wheelbarrow will get rid of a liner-pond. Concrete wants a jackhammer and
backhoe.

4) There are lots of "concrete sealants" and "waterproof coatings" ...
none work very well. Most are sold for "not-below-waterline" use. All
require completely clean concrete in order to work. And you never really
know if you did a good patch job until you fill the pond and wait a week.
(Oh, the stories I can tell you about refilling a pond, putting the plants
&
fish back in, only to watch the level drop...)

4) Any piercings will leak ... I advised my kids' school not to make a
concrete pond for the above 3 reasons, but they went ahead anyways. A ton
of rebar & chickenwire and seventy five sacks of concrete later, they have
a
concrete pond that leaks. Amongst the leaking sites are where the fool
installed a bottom-drain. Turns out that plastic pipe has a different
coefficient of thermal expansion from concrete. So every time the
temperature changes, the school has to top off the pond ... about twenty
gallons a day.

5) Want to clean concrete to prepare it for patching? Use 30%
hydrocloric
acid. You get a suffocating greenish gas, which really does a number on
nearby flora & fauna.

6) Concrete ponds are rarely designed for the actual loads they carry.
Contractors usually dig a hole, line it with rebar & suchnot, then
slather
on concrete. But what are the stresses in the structure? Where will
cracks
most likely occur? Concrete contractors are accustomed to small crack in
a
house's foundation won't affect its structural integrity. But even a tiny
crack in a concrete pond will lose ten gallons a day.

7) Compared to lined ponds, concrete ponds are way more expensive to
install, expensive to maintain, and expensive to remove. Replacing a $250
poly liner is nothing compared to a week of fiberglassing the walls of a
pond.

Over the past 10 years, I've maintained (or help fix) three concrete
ponds. I advised a friend & a school against building concrete ponds,
only
to watch go ahead and build their dream ponds. Sure 'nuff, the
friend/school came back to me, asking for aid in patching the leaks.

So my advise to anyone even thinking about a concrete pond: Don't.
-Cliff 14 May 2003



"Paul in Redland" wrote in message
...
Why not just put a liner in it? Future cracks would then be a non-issue.
Just my $0.02 worth
Paul



"Larry D. Gibbs" wrote in message
news:PEcwa.833099$L1.242015@sccrnsc02...
I have a Concrete pond that was here when I bought the house about ten
years
ago and the water level goes down rather fast. I see that who ever
built
the
pond applied some sort of sealant on the bottom of the pond "off
whitish
color" and the water seems to stay at that level. I have heard of G4
Sealant
but don't know where to buy it and how expensive it is. The pond is
not
smooth, it looks like a rake and shoe imprint were used. What kind of
sealant can be used and also where can it be bought. I live in Tacoma
Washington. I had goldfish in it and they survived until the raccoons
got
them.

Thanks,

--

Larry D. Gibbs

http://www.larrygibbs.com/
Only left handed people are in their right mind.