I am sure you experts w ill consider this a very stupid question. But
where do you start digging the waterfall? From the top or the bottom?
Thank you.

"pixi" wrote in message
...
I am sure you experts w ill consider this a very stupid question. But
where do you start digging the waterfall? From the top or the bottom?

Where I live, if you want a waterfall, you have to build it up, not dig
it out... maybe you better try explaining your situation in detail. Are you
digging out of a hill or going down into a hole?


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I am sure you experts w ill consider this a very stupid question. But
where do you start digging the waterfall? From the top or the bottom?

I usually remove the top soil first. I found it's hard to reach the bottom
soil until you've removed the top soil.

Sorry... couldn't resist.

~ Gary

pixi wrote:
I am sure you experts w ill consider this a very stupid question. But
where do you start digging the waterfall? From the top or the bottom?
Thank you.



No expert here but usually you start to form the waterfall
when digging the pond. You pile the dirt where you want the
waterfall, when you're done digging the pond you shape the
waterfall.

--
Bonnie
NJ
http://home.earthlink.net/~maebe43/

On 30 May 2003 13:37:04 GMT, ospam (GACinMass)
wrote:

I am sure you experts w ill consider this a very stupid question. But
where do you start digging the waterfall? From the top or the bottom?

I usually remove the top soil first. I found it's hard to reach the bottom
soil until you've removed the top soil.

Sorry... couldn't resist.


I was really surprised to find that we had a pond hole in our yard.
It was covered with dirt but after removing the dirt there was this
really nice hole. I found that the more dirt I removed the more hole
I found. I wonder if there is still more hole there? I may never
know as I tired of removing all that dirt - which is now my waterfall.

Another with weak resistance.

John

John Bachman wrote:
On 30 May 2003 13:37:04 GMT, ospam (GACinMass)
wrote:


I am sure you experts w ill consider this a very stupid question. But
where do you start digging the waterfall? From the top or the bottom?

I usually remove the top soil first. I found it's hard to reach the bottom
soil until you've removed the top soil.

Sorry... couldn't resist.



I was really surprised to find that we had a pond hole in our yard.
It was covered with dirt but after removing the dirt there was this
really nice hole. I found that the more dirt I removed the more hole
I found. I wonder if there is still more hole there? I may never
know as I tired of removing all that dirt - which is now my waterfall.

Another with weak resistance.

John



Are you related to John Rutz?

--
Bonnie
NJ
http://home.earthlink.net/~maebe43/

Bonnie Espenshade wrote:
John Bachman wrote:

On 30 May 2003 13:37:04 GMT, ospam (GACinMass)
wrote:


I am sure you experts w ill consider this a very stupid question. But
where do you start digging the waterfall? From the top or the bottom?


I usually remove the top soil first. I found it's hard to reach the
bottom
soil until you've removed the top soil.

Sorry... couldn't resist.



I was really surprised to find that we had a pond hole in our yard.
It was covered with dirt but after removing the dirt there was this
really nice hole. I found that the more dirt I removed the more hole
I found. I wonder if there is still more hole there? I may never
know as I tired of removing all that dirt - which is now my waterfall.

Another with weak resistance.

John



Are you related to John Rutz?



--


ROFL


John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

good judgement comes from bad experience, and that comes from bad
judgement

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

RFLMAO! I think we are related or have the same need for help!

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"Bonnie Espenshade" wrote in message
...
John Bachman wrote:
On 30 May 2003 13:37:04 GMT, ospam (GACinMass)
wrote:


I am sure you experts w ill consider this a very stupid question. But
where do you start digging the waterfall? From the top or the bottom?

I usually remove the top soil first. I found it's hard to reach the
bottom
soil until you've removed the top soil.

Sorry... couldn't resist.



I was really surprised to find that we had a pond hole in our yard.
It was covered with dirt but after removing the dirt there was this
really nice hole. I found that the more dirt I removed the more hole
I found. I wonder if there is still more hole there? I may never
know as I tired of removing all that dirt - which is now my waterfall.

Another with weak resistance.

John



Are you related to John Rutz?

--
Bonnie
NJ
http://home.earthlink.net/~maebe43/

Hey Folks! I admit to being dumb but not that dumb. I knew there was a
hole under that dirt the whole time. And what is top soil? We have
groundhog shale.

..I will try to describe the situation. I have a hole in the ground chopped
out of mostly shale by a backhoe. The mixture of soil (clay) and shale is
piled at one corner of the hole (not in the pond but outside the pond at
one of the corners. I estimate the pile to be about 4 feet high.

In order to have a waterfall, this pile of groundhog shale must be
contoured. A watercourse must be dug out. And if you are to have cascades
as do most waterfalls, the steps in the cascade must be dug out and shaped.

One can either start digging at the top of the pile to form the waterfall
course, or you can start at the bottom of the pile.

Are you with me so far?

Groundhog shale is difficult work with. Even though that pile has been
lambasted by the elements (rain, snow, sleet, hail) since last fall, when
one hits it with a mattock it tends to crumble and lose shape. It doesn't
compact like clay or top soil (whatever that is). One cannot use a shovel
to dig in it without loosening it some with a maddock and once it's
loosened......

Anyway, I started yesterday and I started at the bottom. Not the bottom of
the pond, mind you. Even dumb me knows better that. I started from the
bottom of the pile which is outside of the pond.

I think I will probably have to use some concrete block in order to keep
things from shifting too much.

Well, thanks a lot any way. All I asked was did one start at the top or the
bottom. Never did get a civilized answer.




"pixi" wrote in message
...
I am sure you experts w ill consider this a very stupid question. But
where do you start digging the waterfall? From the top or the bottom?
Thank you.

"pixi" wrote :

Never did get a civilized answer.

I don't think anyone meant to be rude, but there wasn't enough
information to give you more than humorous replies. I am sure it was all
intended to be welcoming.

Now that I know more, I could have given you a better answer, but not
better than your answer, which is based on knowing your type of dirt. All I
have in my yard is sand so my answer would be different.

Still not known is if you plan to use rocks or cement or a prefab
watercourse.


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All I asked was did one start at the top or the
bottom. Never did get a civilized answer.

OK, OK, I apologize (again) for my flip answer. In my opinion, you are doing it
right. I have a pond at the foot of a nicely sloped area. One year I built
the pond. The next year I built about 20' of stream/waterfall feeding into it.
The 3rd year I built another 30' of stream/waterfalls for a total of 50'. In
that 50' of stream I have maybe 10 small pools where the water can "rest"
before spilling into the next one. I found it was easiest to dig from the pond
up. Far better for your back too!

Hope this is helpful,
Gary

Two of my ponds (small and without fish) have waterfalls that I built. I
just picked a spot that would give me best viewing from windows and/or
sitting areas and starting piling up rocks. Luckily, my land is full of
rocks. I just have to dig a whole or walk through my woods and gather
them (I always laugh when I see an HGTV show where people are paying big
$$$ for rocks)

I used large sheet of thick plastic to line where the waterfalls were
built up to make sure I would not lose any water out of the pond. I just
kept piling up rocks and using a hose to test how the water was falling.
It is very easy to kill three or more hours playing with rocks LOL. You
want to make sue you have some very large, flat straight edged rocks for
"drops". And try to make the waterfall curve a bit. Looks much nicer! Be
sure to plant some ground cover and some tall stuff (like iris) among
the rocks so your waterfall will blend in with what's around in and look
natural.

Denise

Visit my gardens:

http://web1.in4web.com/mtcdrc

It's more fun right now to yank your chain than to give you an answer since
I have no clue what a groundhog shaleor a mattock is!

BTW you are now promoted from the ranks of dumb to ......

Here is an attempt at a civilized answer. Mix the groundhog shale with some
more stable material! I have in the past mixed in some cement to a loose
soil so that I can get something more stable. Very low ratio though! Then
use rocks around and on top of your "mole" :-) hill! (The aspiring comic in
me).

I assume you are using a liner right? :-)

I love your sense of humor!

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"pixi" wrote in message
...
Hey Folks! I admit to being dumb but not that dumb. I knew there was a
hole under that dirt the whole time. And what is top soil? We have
groundhog shale.

.I will try to describe the situation. I have a hole in the ground
chopped
out of mostly shale by a backhoe. The mixture of soil (clay) and shale is
piled at one corner of the hole (not in the pond but outside the pond at
one of the corners. I estimate the pile to be about 4 feet high.

In order to have a waterfall, this pile of groundhog shale must be
contoured. A watercourse must be dug out. And if you are to have
cascades
as do most waterfalls, the steps in the cascade must be dug out and
shaped.

One can either start digging at the top of the pile to form the waterfall
course, or you can start at the bottom of the pile.

Are you with me so far?

Groundhog shale is difficult work with. Even though that pile has been
lambasted by the elements (rain, snow, sleet, hail) since last fall, when
one hits it with a mattock it tends to crumble and lose shape. It doesn't
compact like clay or top soil (whatever that is). One cannot use a shovel
to dig in it without loosening it some with a maddock and once it's
loosened......

Anyway, I started yesterday and I started at the bottom. Not the bottom
of
the pond, mind you. Even dumb me knows better that. I started from the
bottom of the pile which is outside of the pond.

I think I will probably have to use some concrete block in order to keep
things from shifting too much.

Well, thanks a lot any way. All I asked was did one start at the top or
the
bottom. Never did get a civilized answer.




"pixi" wrote in message
...
I am sure you experts w ill consider this a very stupid question. But
where do you start digging the waterfall? From the top or the bottom?
Thank you.

Appreciate these last answers. I wrote in response to James Williams and
GACinMass this morning but the message seems to have gone to never-never
land. And their comments were funny. Some others weren't.

I plan to use rock but first I think I will have to use some concrete block
under the liner. And also some carpeting and underliner. Shale is very
sharp. The concrete block will help distribute the weight of the stones I
plan to use.

Groundhog shale, as I understand it, is a combination of clay and shale.
The shale is broken up in fairly small pieces. I don't know why they call
it groundhog shale. We do have a lot of ground hogs although what that
might have to do with anything, who knows? I never heard of it before
moving to this area either. Never saw such rotten soil.

A mattock is sort of a combination heavy duty hoe and pickaxe. Think of a
pickaxe. Both ends of the blade are pointed. On a mattock, only one end is
pointed. The other is, as I said, a heavy duty hoe with a very thick blade.
You can grub out brush and even small trees with it. We need them around
here.

If the darned thing ever gets finished, I'll let you know.

pixi wrote:
Appreciate these last answers. I wrote in response to James Williams and
GACinMass this morning but the message seems to have gone to never-never
land. And their comments were funny. Some others weren't.


If the darned thing ever gets finished, I'll let you know.





--
Pixi

I tried a dirt waterfall years ago found that if I dug from the top
the stuff that fell didnt get into the areas already dug so I didnt
have to dig twice in the same spot

with your shale maybe that would make it easier in the long run

keep us posted on how your doing


John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

good judgement comes from bad experience, and that comes from bad
judgement

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com