I don't believe I'll argue with success. I have had the airstones
and/or pumps sitting on shelves, the bottom and recently about
4 inches from the surface. I don't think it makes a particle
of difference

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"John Bachman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 23:12:16 GMT, dhponder
wrote:

Interesting thread and eagerly waiting for more input. So far, I'm
gathering the consensus is you want a bit of circulation at the bottom?
Until last year I've used the method of a couple of airstones slightly
below the surface, which has worked with no loss of fish. Last year, due
to laziness on my part, I left an Oase Pond30 Aerator at the bottom,
which in my mind gave some (minimal) water movement and another opening
in the ice, as well as the usual two airstones (3 or 4" from the
surface), again with no fish loss. I'd really like to see more
discussion on this.

deanna (zone4, SE Idaho)


I too am interested in the airstone issue. I see no logical reason
for keeping the airstone off the bottom of my 40" deep pond. If it is
down there then it will aerate all of the water as it bubbles to the
surface. That is good, right?

It seems to me that circulating the water does a lot of good and
little bad. Or am I wrong on that?

John

John Bachman wrote:

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 23:12:16 GMT, dhponder
wrote:


Interesting thread and eagerly waiting for more input. So far, I'm
gathering the consensus is you want a bit of circulation at the bottom?
Until last year I've used the method of a couple of airstones slightly
below the surface, which has worked with no loss of fish. Last year, due
to laziness on my part, I left an Oase Pond30 Aerator at the bottom,
which in my mind gave some (minimal) water movement and another opening
in the ice, as well as the usual two airstones (3 or 4" from the
surface), again with no fish loss. I'd really like to see more
discussion on this.

deanna (zone4, SE Idaho)



I too am interested in the airstone issue. I see no logical reason
for keeping the airstone off the bottom of my 40" deep pond. If it is
down there then it will aerate all of the water as it bubbles to the
surface. That is good, right?

It seems to me that circulating the water does a lot of good and
little bad. Or am I wrong on that?

John


My pond is 2 1/2 feet at the deepest portion, but don't see an airstone
at the bottom of your pond creating a water temp change. Experts, please
advise. The Oase Pond30 Aerator apparently kept a water column open from
bottom to top. It was a winter with little snow for insulation and the
pond surface was iced over except for the airstones and pump. Pond is
approximately 16' x 10 to 12' (irregular shape), 1700 gallons.

deanna (zone4, SE Idaho)

I think that the little current caused by an aerator is good, since it mixes
the stagnant bottom water with the top water, while at the same time keeping
the surface open, but heavy currents by a waterfall and pump, will
significantly chill the bottom, make the fish expend energy swimming against
the current and not provide any real benefits.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"John Bachman" wrote in message
...
I too am interested in the airstone issue. I see no logical reason
for keeping the airstone off the bottom of my 40" deep pond. If it is
down there then it will aerate all of the water as it bubbles to the
surface. That is good, right?

It seems to me that circulating the water does a lot of good and
little bad. Or am I wrong on that?

John

I left my submersed pump (on bottom) and falls running all last winter. It
was the worst winter we have had in many years and all survived and did
fine. I am perplexed now, do I or don't I keep it running, I would think the
water would be a better quality running and not stagnant. Pond 500 gal, 18"
deep, 1500gal Giant submersible pump. I will be so glad when I finish my big
pond. Joann
"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:hE2gb.47364$%h1.31627@sccrnsc02...
I think that the little current caused by an aerator is good, since it
mixes
the stagnant bottom water with the top water, while at the same time
keeping
the surface open, but heavy currents by a waterfall and pump, will
significantly chill the bottom, make the fish expend energy swimming
against
the current and not provide any real benefits.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"John Bachman" wrote in message
...
I too am interested in the airstone issue. I see no logical reason
for keeping the airstone off the bottom of my 40" deep pond. If it is
down there then it will aerate all of the water as it bubbles to the
surface. That is good, right?

It seems to me that circulating the water does a lot of good and
little bad. Or am I wrong on that?

John

John Bachman wrote:


I too am interested in the airstone issue. I see no logical reason
for keeping the airstone off the bottom of my 40" deep pond. If it is
down there then it will aerate all of the water as it bubbles to the
surface. That is good, right?

It seems to me that circulating the water does a lot of good and
little bad. Or am I wrong on that?

John


the water has "layers" that are diff. temps.
the bottom is warmer that the top due to
the ground temps below frost line. an airstone
on bottom disrupts that layering effect.

a properly constructed pond has the bottom
at or below the frost line for that area.

i.e.
im in RI and we have a frost line of 3',
my pond is 4' at deepest part.


--
http://www.kencofish.com Ken Arnold,
401-781-9642 cell 401-225-0556
Importer/Exporter of Goldfish,Koi,rare Predators
Shipping to legal states/countries only!
Permalon liners, Oase & Supreme Pondmaster pumps

Linux (SuSE 8.2) user #329121

Please Note: No trees or animals were harmed in the
sending of this contaminant free message We do concede
that a signicant number of electrons may have been
inconvenienced

here in zone 5 running water over a falls would be sure to build up huge ice masses
that would eventually divert the water out of the pond (if the strong winds didnt)
and with the pump on the bottom it would drain the pond. furthermore, since there is
ice on most of the pond, I wouldnt know about it until spring and the ice melted that
all my fish had been high and dry.
Air stones move water in a column depending on how strong they are. so even if they
are not on the bottom they "lighten" the water and that creates a vacuum that moves
water below the airstone up. the amount of air put out depends on depth. the deeper
they are the less air they can put into the water. Ingrid

"FBCS" wrote:
I left my submersed pump (on bottom) and falls running all last winter. It
was the worst winter we have had in many years and all survived and did
fine. I am perplexed now, do I or don't I keep it running, I would think the
water would be a better quality running and not stagnant. Pond 500 gal, 18"
deep, 1500gal Giant submersible pump. I will be so glad when I finish my big
pond. Joann


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

So if I just left my air stones running this would be enough to have the
fish survive. You said in zone 5 you have to do that, so in my zone it would
be okay to keep things running, we do get down t the 30's? I am not worried
about my GF, but am very concerned about my Koi they have grown twice their
size.
wrote in message
...
here in zone 5 running water over a falls would be sure to build up huge
ice masses
that would eventually divert the water out of the pond (if the strong
winds didnt)
and with the pump on the bottom it would drain the pond. furthermore,
since there is
ice on most of the pond, I wouldnt know about it until spring and the ice
melted that
all my fish had been high and dry.
Air stones move water in a column depending on how strong they are. so
even if they
are not on the bottom they "lighten" the water and that creates a vacuum
that moves
water below the airstone up. the amount of air put out depends on depth.
the deeper
they are the less air they can put into the water. Ingrid

"FBCS" wrote:
I left my submersed pump (on bottom) and falls running all last winter.
It
was the worst winter we have had in many years and all survived and did
fine. I am perplexed now, do I or don't I keep it running, I would think
the
water would be a better quality running and not stagnant. Pond 500 gal,
18"
deep, 1500gal Giant submersible pump. I will be so glad when I finish my
big
pond. Joann


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:46:45 GMT, "FBCS" wrote:

I left my submersed pump (on bottom) and falls running all last winter. It
was the worst winter we have had in many years and all survived and did
fine. I am perplexed now, do I or don't I keep it running, I would think the
water would be a better quality running and not stagnant. Pond 500 gal, 18"
deep, 1500gal Giant submersible pump. I will be so glad when I finish my big
pond. Joann

Joann, You mention in another thread that your low temps may only be in the
30's, if so, and if your pond runs around 45F most the time, you probably
can get away with it going. Personally I'd be a little worried about that
much current with fish that are not eating for at least 2-3 months, so you
might want to throttle it down during those months. What is your Zone?

From the discussion, and my 3' deep ponds, I think I'll continue with my
slow circulation and small air stones near the bottom in one area. ~ jan

New pics - Page 7-8
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Hi Jan, I'm in 7a MD.
I have been reading both discussions also not having a clue about water
layers and currents which has given me much concern because my pond is so
shallow. I was hoping to have my bigger pond done by now. I will have to
figure out if the pump can be turned down, mechanical klutz here. It ran all
last winter and it had gotten real cold here for an extended length of time.
with lots of snow that normally misses us. Joann
"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 01:46:45 GMT, "FBCS" wrote:

I left my submersed pump (on bottom) and falls running all last winter.
It
was the worst winter we have had in many years and all survived and did
fine. I am perplexed now, do I or don't I keep it running, I would think
the
water would be a better quality running and not stagnant. Pond 500 gal,
18"
deep, 1500gal Giant submersible pump. I will be so glad when I finish my
big
pond. Joann

Joann, You mention in another thread that your low temps may only be in
the
30's, if so, and if your pond runs around 45F most the time, you probably
can get away with it going. Personally I'd be a little worried about that
much current with fish that are not eating for at least 2-3 months, so you
might want to throttle it down during those months. What is your Zone?

From the discussion, and my 3' deep ponds, I think I'll continue with my
slow circulation and small air stones near the bottom in one area. ~ jan

New pics - Page 7-8
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

i keep mine at the 6" level because its a cheap pump and not very strong. i
discovered it would blow the diaphragm and i'd have to fix it if i kept it
any lower.
mad
--
"There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There
are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't
know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know
we don't know."
Donald Rumsfeld

From: John Bachman
Organization: MV Communications, Inc.
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 19:29:15 -0400
Subject: below 50F - feed or not to feed

I see no logical reason
for keeping the airstone off the bottom of my 40" deep pond.



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