"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:05:46 -0600, "~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote:

## Yes it does effect the looks of the pond. But so does those tall
gawky water sprayers

My motion sprinkler is neither gawky, nor tall. It only stands 18" high at
most, and is hardly noticable, as friends keep walking right in front of
it. Okay..... X-friends. ;o)

## LOL!! :-D

Carol, Did it occur that maybe every suggestion or comment here is not
necessary directed at you?

## I thought it was,... silly me. :-))

I'm sure someone out there in usenet might have
money like this, and quite frankly, I wish they'd send me some and get the
idea of ponds out of their silly heads!

## With my husband semi-retired we can't invest any more money in ponds. I
wish we could. I would love to have one 3000 gallon pond rather then the 2
I have.

It is obvious by this thread that
they'll just ugly net covered eye sores at best and/or will break their
hearts with fish losses at worst. So you all using all upper case so you
know it is a plead for money STOP PUTTING IN PONDS AND WASTING MONEY,
SEND
IT TO ME! That's jjspondatgocougs.wsu.edu for direct contact on where to
send your dough. ;o)

## If they send you too much you can split it with me.

In conclusion I think everyone here will agree that Carol I'm in the
Heron's Book To Fine Dining Windsong should always keep a net on her
ponds, no doubt about it. )

## Only if I want to keep GF and koi.

The rest of us can probably try other things with success, knowing nets
are
always an option. ~ jan

--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

yet another with a fast kill file finger! The only requirement to get
killl filed is dissagree with the so called self professed pond gods /
goddesses. There is no discussion of things in these forums, its all
one sided Windsong, remember that, dissagree and you get rapped hard
and kill filed............



On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 21:42:59 -0600, "~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote:

===
==="Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
=== In rec.ponds ~ Windsong ~ P@p wrote:
=== "Cichlidiot" wrote in message
=== ...
=== Here's a potentially radical idea. How about tolerating the birds and
=== designing a way for them to gravitate towards the far more replaceable
=== fish (and less emotionally attached) than the expensive koi? The best
=== design I've seen so far is a deep, vertically flat sided pond fed by a
=== long, shallow stream/waterfall at a public koi pond.
===
=== To quote one of my favorite characters... "my, but we are in a mood
=== today". You do seem to be quite argumentative on this subject.
===
===## Oh really? You're wrong. Do you always get so easily upset when someone
===questions you?
===
===I will make
=== this one attempt at reason, but any more such illogical replies such as
=== "if we were rich" will be summarily ignored.
===
===## Ok, if we win the lottery or came into a large inheritance we can have
===the experts come in and build your dream pond in our front yard.. After all
===not everyone has an extra $10,000+ to spend on ponds as you seem to think
===they do. Any such suggestions from you that they do will be summarily
===ignored. )
===
=== The setup I described was not likely to have been expensive. It was part
=== of a public park that was set up and maintained completely by volunteers
=== and donations (and most of those volunteers were part of the 60+ club, so
=== I doubt they contributed much to the digging of the whole thing).
===
===## Then why suggest this to a private pond owner? Not expensive for me?
===Where would I get *donations* from? I would have to pay someone to come in
===and redo the whole thing.
===
===I was
=== not privy to the costs, but given these facts I doubt it was that much
=== more expensive than your standard pond and waterfall. The stream was not
=== some huge river as you seem to be thinking it was, just about 15-20 feet
=== long and no more than a foot deep leading from the waterfalls to the pond.
===
===## And how much do they charge for your standard 2000 to 3000 gallon pond
===and waterfall where you live? What did the liners alone cost? ONLY 15 to
===20' stream? That "stream" liner marterial is another several hundred
===dollars at least.
===
=== The labor may have been an issue given the age of many of the volunteers,
===
===## Here again - where would we find all these volunteers? Paying for what
===you suggest would easily run around $8,000 to $10,000 or more where we live.
===The water pump alone for such a setup would be well into the $500 range.
===And you call me argumentative? LOL!!! Not everyone on this list has that
===kind of money.
===
=== but then it always is an issue when digging out a pond. The key here is to
=== think beforehand and plan. Just as it would not be wise to put the pond
=== where all the runoff collects, one should also consider the wildlife of
=== the area when designing the pond.
===
===## Since I had never seen water snakes, bullfrogs, King Fishers or herons
===closely (where we live) we never gave them a thought. We started before I
===got online so all we had to go by were books.
===
=== $$ What stream? How long was the stream,? Herons do not want 1/2" fry
===or
=== small crayfish. How did you keep mosquito fish in the stream and out of
===the
=== pond itself?
===
=== What stream?
===
===## The one you claimed was 15 to 20 feet long and full of fish for the
===herons.
===
===The one I keep describing here that you called expensive in
=== the previous paragraph. Do try to keep up dear. The fish were not forced
=== to remain anywhere. The mosquito fish and fry could also be found in the
=== main pond and waterfall pools as well as along the stream.
===
===## Yes dear I am keeping up. You mentioned a stream, now you mention
===waterfall pools. You're talking about a HUGE expensive system, not what
===most people have in their yards.
===
===Nothing
=== restricted their movement so they were found everywhere, although the ones
=== found in the pools were probably sucked up by the pump and deposited there
=== unless they did salmon impressions and jumped upstream.
===
===## So they passed through the impeller without harm? Must be a new type of
===pump.
===
=== $$ Mosquitoes do not breed in streams (moving water). I can't believe
===you
=== managed to keep the fish in the stream for the herons, and out of your
=== pond. Did you have a net at the end of the stream? How large were the
=== mosquito fish?
===
=== The water was not fast moving, so there was plenty of opportunity for
=== mosquito larva to breed. Just as water based larva occasionally will get
=== into indoor tanks if breeding gnats or mosquitos make it indoors, the
=== movement of the stream was insufficient to take care of the larva in and
=== of itself. Refer to prior paragraph as for fish movement between stream
=== and pond.
===
===## I see, so the water pump would suck them in and spit them back at the end
===of the 15 to 20 foot stream that also fed waterfalls and pools.
===
=== $$ How did you keep the fish in the stream? And what about those of us
===who
=== don't have $10,000+ to call in pond builders or don't have the space for
=== huge streams?
===
=== My, we are repetitive aren't we.
===
===## My but you keep refusing to answer the question until now. I've seen
===many ponds with streams in the past 9 years and never saw any of the fish go
===UP the streams. They stayed in the pond itself whether there was a
===waterfall or not.
===
===This sort of language would get you
=== branded at the least excitable and at the worst a troll in another
=== newsgroup I visit.
===
===## I couldn't care less about your other NGs since I am here. It's obvious
===you think everyone has unlimited income to hire professionals to put in
===ponds with 20' streams, special water pumps that do not harm fish,
===waterfalls with pools, and then load them with mosquito fish to attract
===herons away from their koi and GF. Would be nice if we all could afford
===such a luxuries.... )
===
===For the moment, I will leave it at "excitable" in my
=== mind, but the line is quickly becoming blurred.
===
===## Killfile me! )


REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Sooooooooooooooooolow to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

yet another with a fast kill file finger! The only requirement to get
killl filed is dissagree with the so called self professed pond gods /
goddesses. There is no discussion of things in these forums, its all
one sided Windsong, remember that, dissagree and you get rapped hard
and kill filed............



On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 21:42:59 -0600, "~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote:

===
==="Cichlidiot" wrote in message
...
=== In rec.ponds ~ Windsong ~ P@p wrote:
=== "Cichlidiot" wrote in message
=== ...
=== Here's a potentially radical idea. How about tolerating the birds and
=== designing a way for them to gravitate towards the far more replaceable
=== fish (and less emotionally attached) than the expensive koi? The best
=== design I've seen so far is a deep, vertically flat sided pond fed by a
=== long, shallow stream/waterfall at a public koi pond.
===
=== To quote one of my favorite characters... "my, but we are in a mood
=== today". You do seem to be quite argumentative on this subject.
===
===## Oh really? You're wrong. Do you always get so easily upset when someone
===questions you?
===
===I will make
=== this one attempt at reason, but any more such illogical replies such as
=== "if we were rich" will be summarily ignored.
===
===## Ok, if we win the lottery or came into a large inheritance we can have
===the experts come in and build your dream pond in our front yard.. After all
===not everyone has an extra $10,000+ to spend on ponds as you seem to think
===they do. Any such suggestions from you that they do will be summarily
===ignored. )
===
=== The setup I described was not likely to have been expensive. It was part
=== of a public park that was set up and maintained completely by volunteers
=== and donations (and most of those volunteers were part of the 60+ club, so
=== I doubt they contributed much to the digging of the whole thing).
===
===## Then why suggest this to a private pond owner? Not expensive for me?
===Where would I get *donations* from? I would have to pay someone to come in
===and redo the whole thing.
===
===I was
=== not privy to the costs, but given these facts I doubt it was that much
=== more expensive than your standard pond and waterfall. The stream was not
=== some huge river as you seem to be thinking it was, just about 15-20 feet
=== long and no more than a foot deep leading from the waterfalls to the pond.
===
===## And how much do they charge for your standard 2000 to 3000 gallon pond
===and waterfall where you live? What did the liners alone cost? ONLY 15 to
===20' stream? That "stream" liner marterial is another several hundred
===dollars at least.
===
=== The labor may have been an issue given the age of many of the volunteers,
===
===## Here again - where would we find all these volunteers? Paying for what
===you suggest would easily run around $8,000 to $10,000 or more where we live.
===The water pump alone for such a setup would be well into the $500 range.
===And you call me argumentative? LOL!!! Not everyone on this list has that
===kind of money.
===
=== but then it always is an issue when digging out a pond. The key here is to
=== think beforehand and plan. Just as it would not be wise to put the pond
=== where all the runoff collects, one should also consider the wildlife of
=== the area when designing the pond.
===
===## Since I had never seen water snakes, bullfrogs, King Fishers or herons
===closely (where we live) we never gave them a thought. We started before I
===got online so all we had to go by were books.
===
=== $$ What stream? How long was the stream,? Herons do not want 1/2" fry
===or
=== small crayfish. How did you keep mosquito fish in the stream and out of
===the
=== pond itself?
===
=== What stream?
===
===## The one you claimed was 15 to 20 feet long and full of fish for the
===herons.
===
===The one I keep describing here that you called expensive in
=== the previous paragraph. Do try to keep up dear. The fish were not forced
=== to remain anywhere. The mosquito fish and fry could also be found in the
=== main pond and waterfall pools as well as along the stream.
===
===## Yes dear I am keeping up. You mentioned a stream, now you mention
===waterfall pools. You're talking about a HUGE expensive system, not what
===most people have in their yards.
===
===Nothing
=== restricted their movement so they were found everywhere, although the ones
=== found in the pools were probably sucked up by the pump and deposited there
=== unless they did salmon impressions and jumped upstream.
===
===## So they passed through the impeller without harm? Must be a new type of
===pump.
===
=== $$ Mosquitoes do not breed in streams (moving water). I can't believe
===you
=== managed to keep the fish in the stream for the herons, and out of your
=== pond. Did you have a net at the end of the stream? How large were the
=== mosquito fish?
===
=== The water was not fast moving, so there was plenty of opportunity for
=== mosquito larva to breed. Just as water based larva occasionally will get
=== into indoor tanks if breeding gnats or mosquitos make it indoors, the
=== movement of the stream was insufficient to take care of the larva in and
=== of itself. Refer to prior paragraph as for fish movement between stream
=== and pond.
===
===## I see, so the water pump would suck them in and spit them back at the end
===of the 15 to 20 foot stream that also fed waterfalls and pools.
===
=== $$ How did you keep the fish in the stream? And what about those of us
===who
=== don't have $10,000+ to call in pond builders or don't have the space for
=== huge streams?
===
=== My, we are repetitive aren't we.
===
===## My but you keep refusing to answer the question until now. I've seen
===many ponds with streams in the past 9 years and never saw any of the fish go
===UP the streams. They stayed in the pond itself whether there was a
===waterfall or not.
===
===This sort of language would get you
=== branded at the least excitable and at the worst a troll in another
=== newsgroup I visit.
===
===## I couldn't care less about your other NGs since I am here. It's obvious
===you think everyone has unlimited income to hire professionals to put in
===ponds with 20' streams, special water pumps that do not harm fish,
===waterfalls with pools, and then load them with mosquito fish to attract
===herons away from their koi and GF. Would be nice if we all could afford
===such a luxuries.... )
===
===For the moment, I will leave it at "excitable" in my
=== mind, but the line is quickly becoming blurred.
===
===## Killfile me! )


REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Sooooooooooooooooolow to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

I like Herons and have rescued them and would hate to see one killed,
but accidents can happen. I'm just wondering what the authorities feel
about the natural instincts of certain breeds of dogs?
snip

I suspect you'd be in no trouble at all. Your dog in your yard? Hardly a
crime. Now, if you shot the bird and held it down for spot to kill, that
might be an issue.

I'd imagine that you are legally responsible for everything your dog does.

I think the penalty might be different between dog kill and gun kill
but both would be guilty.

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
news

Roy's not a troll. Roy's an abusive little child who needs to have his
Internet privileges revoked.
===========================
Like a few of the nasty arrogant people on rec.ponds who demanded my service
be revoked? The only reason I have ever contacted someone's ISP was for
spam abuse - and never demanded their service be nuked. Why not just
by-pass the posts of people you don't like?
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Due to financial crisis the light at the end
of the tunnel is switched off."
~~~~~~~
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
news

Roy's not a troll. Roy's an abusive little child who needs to have his
Internet privileges revoked.
===========================
Like a few of the nasty arrogant people on rec.ponds who demanded my service
be revoked? The only reason I have ever contacted someone's ISP was for
spam abuse - and never demanded their service be nuked. Why not just
by-pass the posts of people you don't like?
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Due to financial crisis the light at the end
of the tunnel is switched off."
~~~~~~~
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Roy" wrote in message
...

yet another with a fast kill file finger! The only requirement to get
killl filed is dissagree with the so called self professed pond gods /
goddesses. There is no discussion of things in these forums, its all
one sided Windsong, remember that, dissagree and you get rapped hard
and kill filed............
======================
That's life I guess. Personally, I couldn't care less who killfiles me.
:-)
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Due to financial crisis the light at the end
of the tunnel is switched off."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On or about 11 Jan 2005 18:20:04 -0800, "kathy" wrote
something like:

My labradors and I were able to scare a heron away
over a two day period.

"Be vewwy vewwy qwi-yet, boys, and we can sneak up on the nasty boid
in a couple of days!"
--
Crashj

On or about Wed, 12 Jan 2005 19:16:41 +0000 (UTC), Cichlidiot
wrote something like:

In rec.ponds kathy wrote:
My labradors and I were able to scare a heron away
over a two day period.

Don't discount the power of dogs. I saw on that Animal Planet "dog jobs"
(or maybe it was the breed profile, forget exactly) show that a fish
breeder in FL uses trained dogs to scare away migratory birds.

The dogs were also under constant
supervision by a handler

So what did the handler do? Scare off the birds!
--
Crashj

On or about Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:09:25 -0600, Katra
wrote something like:

In article ,
~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

Can anyone help?

I have a Heron that comes to the pond every day.

Black PVC pipe for hides? The fish use that?

Oh, an all around excellent idea. I have a big piece at the bottom of
the pond as a Winter hidey-hole. They seem to like to hide in it when
it gets really cold. The water in there does not circulate much at
all, and it is more comfortable and quiet there. I guess. Plus - no
herons.
--
Crashj

On or about Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:09:25 -0600, Katra
wrote something like:

In article ,
~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

Can anyone help?

I have a Heron that comes to the pond every day.

Black PVC pipe for hides? The fish use that?

Oh, an all around excellent idea. I have a big piece at the bottom of
the pond as a Winter hidey-hole. They seem to like to hide in it when
it gets really cold. The water in there does not circulate much at
all, and it is more comfortable and quiet there. I guess. Plus - no
herons.
--
Crashj

My wife called me at work the other day to ask what this big white bird
was in our backyard. I asked if it was by the bond. She said yes, and I
said, "That would be a heron and it's probably dining on our goldfish."
Then she said that it had already flown away. A few minutes later she
called me back and said there were only four fish left. When I got back
late that afternoon I could see that most of the fish were hiding in the
black PVC pipe at the bottom of the pond.
I'm not sure how many the heron got, but I don't think it was many, as
I'm not sure exactly how many there were before. It didn't get too many,
though.
I've since replaced the PVC pipe with clay pipe. It's heavier.


"Crashj" wrote in message
...
On or about Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:09:25 -0600, Katra
wrote something like:

In article ,
~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

Can anyone help?

I have a Heron that comes to the pond every day.

Black PVC pipe for hides? The fish use that?

Oh, an all around excellent idea. I have a big piece at the bottom of
the pond as a Winter hidey-hole. They seem to like to hide in it when
it gets really cold. The water in there does not circulate much at
all, and it is more comfortable and quiet there. I guess. Plus - no
herons.
--
Crashj

In article ,
Andrew Burgess wrote:

I like Herons and have rescued them and would hate to see one killed,
but accidents can happen. I'm just wondering what the authorities feel
about the natural instincts of certain breeds of dogs?
snip

I suspect you'd be in no trouble at all. Your dog in your yard? Hardly a
crime. Now, if you shot the bird and held it down for spot to kill, that
might be an issue.

I'd imagine that you are legally responsible for everything your dog does.

I think the penalty might be different between dog kill and gun kill
but both would be guilty.


Hmmmmm... Seems like I'm going to have to call parks and wildlife to get
an answer to this one. ;-)
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

~ Windsong ~ wrote:


"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
news

Roy's not a troll. Roy's an abusive little child who needs to have his
Internet privileges revoked.
===========================
Like a few of the nasty arrogant people on rec.ponds who demanded my
service
be revoked? The only reason I have ever contacted someone's ISP was for
spam abuse - and never demanded their service be nuked. Why not just
by-pass the posts of people you don't like?

Carol, I have no trouble bypassing ignorant posters. However, forging your
headers to say NedraSucks goes beyond both good taste and his ISP's terms
of service. I'm happy to forward abusive email and news postings to an
ISP. If nasty arrogant people demanded your service be revoked (it must
have been while I was away), there are only three possible outcomes: they
were ignored by your ISP - because you didn't violate your TOS; you lost
your service _because_ you violated your TOS; or you lost your service
because your ISP was too ignorant to properly investigate - in which case
you needed a better ISP anyway.
--
derek

~ Windsong ~ wrote:


"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
news

Roy's not a troll. Roy's an abusive little child who needs to have his
Internet privileges revoked.
===========================
Like a few of the nasty arrogant people on rec.ponds who demanded my
service
be revoked? The only reason I have ever contacted someone's ISP was for
spam abuse - and never demanded their service be nuked. Why not just
by-pass the posts of people you don't like?

Carol, I have no trouble bypassing ignorant posters. However, forging your
headers to say NedraSucks goes beyond both good taste and his ISP's terms
of service. I'm happy to forward abusive email and news postings to an
ISP. If nasty arrogant people demanded your service be revoked (it must
have been while I was away), there are only three possible outcomes: they
were ignored by your ISP - because you didn't violate your TOS; you lost
your service _because_ you violated your TOS; or you lost your service
because your ISP was too ignorant to properly investigate - in which case
you needed a better ISP anyway.
--
derek