~ Windsong ~ wrote:


"kathy" wrote in message
ups.com...
Go here
http://ihmp.net/@/y

The device is called a Heron Scarer.
=========================
The herons will learn to fish from right next to the scarer so they don't
get sprinkled. They land and come up behind it. Herons are very
intelligent birds/predators. It's another temporary waste of money where
herons are concerned. If the hose pops or leaks and you're asleep or away
from home for the day, you're water bill will be sky high. Also these
water scarers are useless against King Fishers, fish eating snakes, fish
eating turtles and fish eating bullfrogs.

But Carol, netting isn't any use against most of those, either.
--
derek

~ Windsong ~ wrote:


"kathy" wrote in message
ups.com...
Go here
http://ihmp.net/@/y

The device is called a Heron Scarer.
=========================
The herons will learn to fish from right next to the scarer so they don't
get sprinkled. They land and come up behind it. Herons are very
intelligent birds/predators. It's another temporary waste of money where
herons are concerned. If the hose pops or leaks and you're asleep or away
from home for the day, you're water bill will be sky high. Also these
water scarers are useless against King Fishers, fish eating snakes, fish
eating turtles and fish eating bullfrogs.

But Carol, netting isn't any use against most of those, either.
--
derek

"kathy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Carol wrote And in the end only bird netting works

Netting is always an option
but some people really don't want to net their ponds.
For them it spoils the look,

## Yes it does effect the looks of the pond. But so does those tall gawky
water sprayers and wire/string strung all over the place. I didn't want to
net mine either considering they're both in front of my house. However I
was sick and tired of losing koi and GF to these predators. We did try
other methods first. Nothing worked. Perhaps other people can afford the
endless losses and don't get attached to their fish. I do. It was both an
emotional issue as well as a financial issue. When herons and King Fishers
discover your pond all you become is a feeding station for them. Also, if
you're in an area frequented by these birds you will usually (but not
always) also end up with large fish eating water snakes and bullfrogs. At
that point you may as well buy a fish hatchery.

makes it hard to work in the pond,

## To a degree yes, but much easier then picking up the half eaten remains
of your new koi or favorite 5 year old Shubunken. Or realizing all three of
your butterfly koi are GONE when you go out to feed them.

ruins the look of tall marginals,
gets blown off,

## It can't get blown off if it's put on right. You don't just toss it over
the pond.

for me it is a danger for my dogs, younger children, the squirrels
and the birds.

## How can a net possibly be a danger to children and squirrels? Yes,
sometimes small birds will get caught. I release them. That has only
happened a few times in the last 5 years. I would rather a child fall on
the net then into the water and possibly drown. You can get around the
small bird problem as we did by putting a full clean birdbath near the pond.

Herons have stabbed through nets,

## Herons do not STAB fish through nets or any other way. Herons GRAB the
fish with their beaks - they do not stab them!

green herons have wriggled under
nets.

## Then the net was not installed correctly.

If you tangle up a heron in your net and kill it you have some
serious explaining to do to the feds.

## I have never had one tangled up in the net. The net is too tight to
tangle a large bird. A small bird may get a head and wing caught. Also the
Feds do not post the "pond police" in your backyard! LOL!!! You've got to
be kidding me!!!! :-D

Other options DO work for other ponders so I think it is important to
list them as they DO work.

## Anyone can try anything they choose. It all depends on how much they
value their fish. Some people are more interested in the appearance their
ponds make - to each her/his own.

I most always list netting as an option but other options
DO WORK for other ponders.

## That depends on where they live of course,... because herons are only
ONE predator fish keepers have to contend with. I wish someone had told me
these things BEFORE I wasted my time, money and lost so many fish before
getting the nets.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"kathy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Carol wrote And in the end only bird netting works

Netting is always an option
but some people really don't want to net their ponds.
For them it spoils the look,
makes it hard to work in the pond,
ruins the look of tall marginals,
gets blown off,
for me it is a danger for my dogs, younger children, the squirrels
and the birds.
Herons have stabbed through nets, green herons have wriggled under
nets. If you tangle up a heron in your net and kill it you have some
serious explaining to do to the feds.
Other options DO work for other ponders so I think it is important to
list them as they DO work.
I most always list netting as an option but other options
DO WORK for other ponders.

I concure. The hooting, hollering, flapping your arms, screaming while
your
dog barks at you technique is so far working well for me.
========================
It worked for us for awhile as well. Then the herons came so early in the
morning we were still asleep. Do you ever sleep? Some learned to come at
sundown when we weren't likely out in the yard. We had better things to do
than sit at the windows from morning to night watching and guarding the
ponds. Do you pay someone to guard your pond when you're out of town or at
work? Kingfishers drop out of nowhere and all the flapping, screaming and
barking dogs will not stop them. By the time you get out the door the KF
is flying away with the fish.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"kathy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Carol wrote And in the end only bird netting works

Netting is always an option
but some people really don't want to net their ponds.
For them it spoils the look,

## Yes it does effect the looks of the pond. But so does those tall gawky
water sprayers and wire/string strung all over the place. I didn't want to
net mine either considering they're both in front of my house. However I
was sick and tired of losing koi and GF to these predators. We did try
other methods first. Nothing worked. Perhaps other people can afford the
endless losses and don't get attached to their fish. I do. It was both an
emotional issue as well as a financial issue. When herons and King Fishers
discover your pond all you become is a feeding station for them. Also, if
you're in an area frequented by these birds you will usually (but not
always) also end up with large fish eating water snakes and bullfrogs. At
that point you may as well buy a fish hatchery.

makes it hard to work in the pond,

## To a degree yes, but much easier then picking up the half eaten remains
of your new koi or favorite 5 year old Shubunken. Or realizing all three of
your butterfly koi are GONE when you go out to feed them.

ruins the look of tall marginals,
gets blown off,

## It can't get blown off if it's put on right. You don't just toss it over
the pond.

for me it is a danger for my dogs, younger children, the squirrels
and the birds.

## How can a net possibly be a danger to children and squirrels? Yes,
sometimes small birds will get caught. I release them. That has only
happened a few times in the last 5 years. I would rather a child fall on
the net then into the water and possibly drown. You can get around the
small bird problem as we did by putting a full clean birdbath near the pond.

Herons have stabbed through nets,

## Herons do not STAB fish through nets or any other way. Herons GRAB the
fish with their beaks - they do not stab them!

green herons have wriggled under
nets.

## Then the net was not installed correctly.

If you tangle up a heron in your net and kill it you have some
serious explaining to do to the feds.

## I have never had one tangled up in the net. The net is too tight to
tangle a large bird. A small bird may get a head and wing caught. Also the
Feds do not post the "pond police" in your backyard! LOL!!! You've got to
be kidding me!!!! :-D

Other options DO work for other ponders so I think it is important to
list them as they DO work.

## Anyone can try anything they choose. It all depends on how much they
value their fish. Some people are more interested in the appearance their
ponds make - to each her/his own.

I most always list netting as an option but other options
DO WORK for other ponders.

## That depends on where they live of course,... because herons are only
ONE predator fish keepers have to contend with. I wish someone had told me
these things BEFORE I wasted my time, money and lost so many fish before
getting the nets.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:09:25 -0600, Katra
wrote:
From personal experience, one club member said he had a good time watching
while the heron coming to his pond was total frustrated. ;o) ~ jan
========================
I also had a good time watching our herons and the fake koi. But then,
smart predators that they are, they quickly learned which were fake and
ignored them in favor of the real koi and GF.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:09:25 -0600, Katra
wrote:
From personal experience, one club member said he had a good time watching
while the heron coming to his pond was total frustrated. ;o) ~ jan
========================
I also had a good time watching our herons and the fake koi. But then,
smart predators that they are, they quickly learned which were fake and
ignored them in favor of the real koi and GF.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
I swear by the motion sprinkler, but you may have to put netting up for
awhile, since the heron has fed. Most deterrents work best before the
bird
has been rewarded. And if Kathy didn't mention it in her list, fake
fish,
drives them insane. ~ jan
=====================
The herons here took the fake fish one time,... learned their lesson and
went back to the real fish ignoring the fake completely.

Either your herons are very very smart or your fish very dumb. ;o)

## We had more than one Heron. There would often be one at the edge of the
pond and another in the tree by the driveway to await it's turn. And yes
they are smart, like all predatory birds. Fish are nowhere near as smart as
these birds. The bird stands there like a statue and the fish seem to
"forget" it's there if it does not move. Ask a fisherman about standing dead
still. You catch blueclaw crabs the same way. As soon as the fish comes
within range the heron snaps it up.

Once a
bird strikes the fish are suppose to dive for cover.

## Not all of them do. I have seen the koi actually swim up to where the
CRANE was standing, probably thinking they would be fed. The crane flew off
when I opened the door. The fish, those who do hide, will only stay hidden
for so long, then they venture out (I watched from the window. The ponds
are right in front of my house) and the Heron strikes.

The fake fish should
be securely tied down so the bird can't remove and exam it. ~ jan

## They were tied to pots of plants on a string. One heron got one onto
the rocks. Another heron (maybe the same one) actually stood on the pot and
tried to pry the fake fish loose to carry it off. It was funny to watch.
There was "something" about the fake fish they noticed (?) though because
they didn't bother with them after awhile and the real fish continued to
disappear..... and yes, I moved the fakes around the ponds. That didn't
help. They also ignored the fake owl and snakes.

--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
I swear by the motion sprinkler, but you may have to put netting up for
awhile, since the heron has fed. Most deterrents work best before the
bird
has been rewarded. And if Kathy didn't mention it in her list, fake
fish,
drives them insane. ~ jan
=====================
The herons here took the fake fish one time,... learned their lesson and
went back to the real fish ignoring the fake completely.

Either your herons are very very smart or your fish very dumb. ;o)

## We had more than one Heron. There would often be one at the edge of the
pond and another in the tree by the driveway to await it's turn. And yes
they are smart, like all predatory birds. Fish are nowhere near as smart as
these birds. The bird stands there like a statue and the fish seem to
"forget" it's there if it does not move. Ask a fisherman about standing dead
still. You catch blueclaw crabs the same way. As soon as the fish comes
within range the heron snaps it up.

Once a
bird strikes the fish are suppose to dive for cover.

## Not all of them do. I have seen the koi actually swim up to where the
CRANE was standing, probably thinking they would be fed. The crane flew off
when I opened the door. The fish, those who do hide, will only stay hidden
for so long, then they venture out (I watched from the window. The ponds
are right in front of my house) and the Heron strikes.

The fake fish should
be securely tied down so the bird can't remove and exam it. ~ jan

## They were tied to pots of plants on a string. One heron got one onto
the rocks. Another heron (maybe the same one) actually stood on the pot and
tried to pry the fake fish loose to carry it off. It was funny to watch.
There was "something" about the fake fish they noticed (?) though because
they didn't bother with them after awhile and the real fish continued to
disappear..... and yes, I moved the fakes around the ponds. That didn't
help. They also ignored the fake owl and snakes.

--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Carol wrote #a whole lot of things,
debating each and every point of BV and mine
and jan's

Carol,
I'm very pleased nets work for you.
Really.
I just get tired of you always posting how every other
method won't work. They DO work. For some ponders.
There is NO absolute way. Nets are not for everyone
and I'm not going to point by point go through all your
disagreements, I've read them so very many times before.
I'd rather we all just post possible solutions
and you can always post nets work wonderfully for you.
They should always be an option but not the only
option. Other options do work. And we should always offer
them to posters asking for solutions. Then they can read through,
mull over the possible solutions and make a choice.

kathy

"kathy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Carol wrote #a whole lot of things,
debating each and every point of BV and mine
and jan's
=====================
Carol,
I'm very pleased nets work for you.
Really.
I just get tired of you always posting how every other
method won't work. They DO work. For some ponders.

## For *few* ponders. None that I ever knew. However I knew several over
the years that spent a lot of time and money with sprayers, running wire all
around their ponds, fake fish etc, (including myself, except the sprayer)
and the herons and King Fishers kept right on getting the fish. Perhaps
these things work in towns or in cities where these birds are rare to start
with. But to post as though they do and WILL in general *work* is
misleading. Perhaps we should ask where the people are located who are
asking about herons.

There is NO absolute way. Nets are not for everyone
and I'm not going to point by point go through all your
disagreements,

## Fish are not for everyone either for that matter. If the ugly sprayers
and wires all over the place don't work they can always hire full time pond
guards or forget keeping fish altogether. :-) Lighten up!

I've read them so very many times before.
I'd rather we all just post possible solutions
and you can always post nets work wonderfully for you.
They should always be an option but not the only
option. Other options do work.

## Yes, temporarily. Herons are smart birds. I just don't want anyone
else to experience the losses, disappointments and heartbreak I did.

And we should always offer
them to posters asking for solutions. Then they can read through,
mull over the possible solutions and make a choice.

## How can they make an educated choice without hearing form those who tried
these other methods and none worked long-term and why? Do you realize some
people are blaming herons for taking fish when the problem is snakes or
frogs? We need to ask them if these predators are also in their pond. I
don't recall anyone asking them that question. Some people never see a
snake but suddenly find a shed skin near their pond. We can't assume every
missing fish ended up dinner for some heron.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"kathy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Carol wrote #a whole lot of things,
debating each and every point of BV and mine
and jan's
=====================
Carol,
I'm very pleased nets work for you.
Really.
I just get tired of you always posting how every other
method won't work. They DO work. For some ponders.

## For *few* ponders. None that I ever knew. However I knew several over
the years that spent a lot of time and money with sprayers, running wire all
around their ponds, fake fish etc, (including myself, except the sprayer)
and the herons and King Fishers kept right on getting the fish. Perhaps
these things work in towns or in cities where these birds are rare to start
with. But to post as though they do and WILL in general *work* is
misleading. Perhaps we should ask where the people are located who are
asking about herons.

There is NO absolute way. Nets are not for everyone
and I'm not going to point by point go through all your
disagreements,

## Fish are not for everyone either for that matter. If the ugly sprayers
and wires all over the place don't work they can always hire full time pond
guards or forget keeping fish altogether. :-) Lighten up!

I've read them so very many times before.
I'd rather we all just post possible solutions
and you can always post nets work wonderfully for you.
They should always be an option but not the only
option. Other options do work.

## Yes, temporarily. Herons are smart birds. I just don't want anyone
else to experience the losses, disappointments and heartbreak I did.

And we should always offer
them to posters asking for solutions. Then they can read through,
mull over the possible solutions and make a choice.

## How can they make an educated choice without hearing form those who tried
these other methods and none worked long-term and why? Do you realize some
people are blaming herons for taking fish when the problem is snakes or
frogs? We need to ask them if these predators are also in their pond. I
don't recall anyone asking them that question. Some people never see a
snake but suddenly find a shed skin near their pond. We can't assume every
missing fish ended up dinner for some heron.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In article ,
San Diego Joe wrote:

"Katra" wrote:

In article ,
~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

snip

Where do you get fish decoys???

/snip


When any of my fish go belly up, I just have them stuffed, waterproofed and
put back in the pond attached to a small anchor.

San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Goldfish, a RES named Colombo and an Oscar.


Now that is an interesting idea!!!
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell--you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

In article , "~ Windsong ~" P@P
wrote:

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"kathy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Carol wrote And in the end only bird netting works

Netting is always an option
but some people really don't want to net their ponds.
For them it spoils the look,
makes it hard to work in the pond,
ruins the look of tall marginals,
gets blown off,
for me it is a danger for my dogs, younger children, the squirrels
and the birds.
Herons have stabbed through nets, green herons have wriggled under
nets. If you tangle up a heron in your net and kill it you have some
serious explaining to do to the feds.
Other options DO work for other ponders so I think it is important to
list them as they DO work.
I most always list netting as an option but other options
DO WORK for other ponders.

I concure. The hooting, hollering, flapping your arms, screaming while
your
dog barks at you technique is so far working well for me.
========================
It worked for us for awhile as well. Then the herons came so early in the
morning we were still asleep. Do you ever sleep? Some learned to come at
sundown when we weren't likely out in the yard. We had better things to do
than sit at the windows from morning to night watching and guarding the
ponds. Do you pay someone to guard your pond when you're out of town or at
work? Kingfishers drop out of nowhere and all the flapping, screaming and
barking dogs will not stop them. By the time you get out the door the KF
is flying away with the fish.

My border collie is faster than any bird, and has killed small possums
coming into the yard.

The thing is, if your dog manages to grab and kill a heron (and I know
Jewely would!) how much trouble would you be in? It's not like you meant
for it to happen, and the great blues and little greens are not an
endangered species.

I like Herons and have rescued them and would hate to see one killed,
but accidents can happen. I'm just wondering what the authorities feel
about the natural instincts of certain breeds of dogs?
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

"Katra" wrote in message
...

My border collie is faster than any bird, and has killed small possums
coming into the yard.

## My Doberman and large mutt has killed possums too. :-(

The thing is, if your dog manages to grab and kill a heron (and I know
Jewely would!) how much trouble would you be in?

## Who would know?

It's not like you meant
for it to happen, and the great blues and little greens are not an
endangered species.

## No one would know unless you told them. Your dog killing one is not the
same as you shooting it.

I like Herons and have rescued them and would hate to see one killed,
but accidents can happen. I'm just wondering what the authorities feel
about the natural instincts of certain breeds of dogs?

## You can call the Dept. of the Interior for information or the Wildlife
Service where you live.

--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
Completely FREE softwa
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~