Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.

I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned for
months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and fascinated
by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and enjoying
them.

One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end of
the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.

The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.

The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.

I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best friends
and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without feeling a
knot in my stomach.

Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went out
and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and repopulated
the pond.

I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I must
add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)

2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have the
pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the pond
and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all the
chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is 900/1200
gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.

I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps do
their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from pond
shops to uphold her way of doing things.

I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.

Ideas?

Thank you very much

Pond in California

CC wrote 1) What did the kois died of?

The koi most likely died of chlorine poisoning.

As for green water, best to study the green water primer below, put together
from years of experienced rec.ponders ~


Algae fighting tips
~ Nutrients for all forms of algae are sun, new water, fish waste, fertilized
run off, rotting plants, blown in dirt.
~ New ponds and spring ponds need time for plants to get established, algae is
quicker at getting going.
~ add plants, of any kind, in the pond. Especially underwater plants.
~ Shade is good - provided by lily pads, floating plants or artificial shade
for part of the day.
~ LOW fish stocking (20 gallons per goldfish, 100 per koi after starting with
1,000 gallons) and *not* overfeeding the fish. Too many fish and too much
feeding is probably responsible for most pea soup water, followed closely by
too much decaying plant matter, sludge and overall gunk in the water
~ adding a combination mechanical and biological filter to screen gunk and
convert fishy ammonia waste for fish health.
~ build a veggie filter, to run water through plants, as easy as floating water
hyacinth in your filter.
~ clean up dead plant matter and screen for falling leaves
in the fall.
~ water movement, occasional water changes of 10%
~ add a sludge consumer, concentrated bacteria.
many rec.ponders use http://www.united-tech.com/m-aq4u-toc.html
~ Check your pH, too high, over 8.8, or too low, under 6.4, and most higher
plant forms can't take up the nutrients.
~ building ponds with bottom drains and skimmers.
~ do not use algaecides, they only make lots of suddenly dead algae
and that will feed the next algae bloom.
~ do not worry about algae that grows on things (substrate algae) this is good
for a pond
~ gently remove string algae
~ UV lights work on suspended algae (green water) - does cost some $$.
~ patience and time ;-)



kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

Municipal water supply usually have Chloramine added. Chloramine bind with the
hemoglobin in the blood. This prevent the transport of oxygen by blood
circulation. The fish would die due to lack of oxygen. Chloramine from that
running hose killed your Koi.

CC wrote:

One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end of
the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.

The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.

The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.

I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best friends
and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without feeling a
knot in my stomach.

Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went out
and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and repopulated
the pond.

I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of?

The responses below answers your questions. For the size of your pond you
do have too many Koi.

From the rule of thumb bounced around here, assuming 1200 gallons you should
have 3 Koi. Unless you really watch all your parameters like a hawk!

Where in California are you. I am in Rancho Cucamonga (By Ontario Airport
in case you need a hand and free plants! I have way too many plants, and
don't have the heart to throw them away)

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"CC" wrote in message
...
Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.

I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned for
months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and
fascinated
by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and enjoying
them.

One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end of
the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.

The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.

The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.

I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best
friends
and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without feeling
a
knot in my stomach.

Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went out
and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and
repopulated
the pond.

I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I must
add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)

2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have the
pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the pond
and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all the
chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is
900/1200
gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.

I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps do
their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from
pond
shops to uphold her way of doing things.

I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.

Ideas?

Thank you very much

Pond in California

Thank you for your answer. I am in Sacramento CA, not CAnada, sorry (but my
wife is from Vancouver BC). I too have too many plants, mostly water lilies,
but thank you for the offer. If I lived there I would have enjoyed meeting
you.
I was not aware that I had too many Koi. 25+ (the ones that died) did seem
too many to me, but they were very happy even in the murky water. Also, they
all died overnight (some died after discovering the disaster, I agonized
alongside with them), and they died of whatever went on in the pond due to
the hose left in and the filter not functioning.

Now I have 12 + a goldfish, the lone survivor, but they are small, very
small with only 2 approaching the size of the previous fish.
Also I am used to the metric system and volume calculations have never been
my forte. The pond is L shaped, 12ftx3ft and 3ft deep more or less. the
conversion from ft to gal. escapes me completely, so my pond could be
larger, or smaller for that matter, somebody eyeballed it for me but I do
not trust their judgment much more than I trust mine.

I realize that aquariums stores give terrible advice, which is why I came
here. I have been reading all the past posts and they have been very
helpful.

As why they died, my wife insists that they must have suffocated due to the
water hose stirring up the silt off the bottom and severely clouding the
water. It could have been, they all died as if trying to escape the pond.

I'll keep on reading, and I thank you for your response.

CC





"Just Me "Koi"" wrote in message
...
The responses below answers your questions. For the size of your pond you
do have too many Koi.

From the rule of thumb bounced around here, assuming 1200 gallons you
should
have 3 Koi. Unless you really watch all your parameters like a hawk!

Where in California are you. I am in Rancho Cucamonga (By Ontario Airport
in case you need a hand and free plants! I have way too many plants, and
don't have the heart to throw them away)

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"CC" wrote in message
...
Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.

I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned
for
months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and
fascinated
by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and enjoying
them.

One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end
of
the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.

The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.

The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.

I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best
friends
and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without
feeling
a
knot in my stomach.

Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went
out
and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and
repopulated
the pond.

I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I
must
add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)

2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have
the
pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the
pond
and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all
the
chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is
900/1200
gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.

I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps
do
their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from
pond
shops to uphold her way of doing things.

I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.

Ideas?

Thank you very much

Pond in California

Well if I am reading this correctly you pond is 12 foot x 3 foot x 3 foot
which equals 808 gallons.

http://www.aquariumpharm.com/pondcalculator.html


"CC" wrote in message
...
Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.

I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned for
months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and
fascinated
by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and enjoying
them.

One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end of
the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.

The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.

The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.

I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best
friends
and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without feeling
a
knot in my stomach.

Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went out
and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and
repopulated
the pond.

I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I must
add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)

2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have the
pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the pond
and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all the
chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is
900/1200
gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.

I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps do
their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from
pond
shops to uphold her way of doing things.

I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.

Ideas?

Thank you very much

Pond in California

When you stir up the murk at the bottom of an old pond, you release some
deadly gas that is deadly enough to kill your fish!

Then as they are struggling from the gas, you throw in un-conditioned tap
water with chloramines and no fish that I know of will survive that 1-2
knockout punch.

Of course I say this as if I know it to be so for sure! Far from it, since
I've never been a Koi before, I can only repeat what I've been told in the
past!

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"CC" wrote in message
...
Thank you for your answer. I am in Sacramento CA, not CAnada, sorry (but
my
wife is from Vancouver BC). I too have too many plants, mostly water
lilies,
but thank you for the offer. If I lived there I would have enjoyed meeting
you.
I was not aware that I had too many Koi. 25+ (the ones that died) did seem
too many to me, but they were very happy even in the murky water. Also,
they
all died overnight (some died after discovering the disaster, I agonized
alongside with them), and they died of whatever went on in the pond due to
the hose left in and the filter not functioning.

Now I have 12 + a goldfish, the lone survivor, but they are small, very
small with only 2 approaching the size of the previous fish.
Also I am used to the metric system and volume calculations have never
been
my forte. The pond is L shaped, 12ftx3ft and 3ft deep more or less. the
conversion from ft to gal. escapes me completely, so my pond could be
larger, or smaller for that matter, somebody eyeballed it for me but I do
not trust their judgment much more than I trust mine.

I realize that aquariums stores give terrible advice, which is why I came
here. I have been reading all the past posts and they have been very
helpful.

As why they died, my wife insists that they must have suffocated due to
the
water hose stirring up the silt off the bottom and severely clouding the
water. It could have been, they all died as if trying to escape the pond.

I'll keep on reading, and I thank you for your response.

CC





"Just Me "Koi"" wrote in message
...
The responses below answers your questions. For the size of your pond
you
do have too many Koi.

From the rule of thumb bounced around here, assuming 1200 gallons you
should
have 3 Koi. Unless you really watch all your parameters like a hawk!

Where in California are you. I am in Rancho Cucamonga (By Ontario
Airport
in case you need a hand and free plants! I have way too many plants,
and
don't have the heart to throw them away)

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"CC" wrote in message
...
Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.

I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned
for
months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and
fascinated
by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and
enjoying
them.

One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end
of
the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.

The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.

The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.

I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best
friends
and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without
feeling
a
knot in my stomach.

Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went
out
and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and
repopulated
the pond.

I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I
must
add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)

2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have
the
pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the
pond
and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all
the
chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is
900/1200
gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.

I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps
do
their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from
pond
shops to uphold her way of doing things.

I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.

Ideas?

Thank you very much

Pond in California

If it is only 808 gallons, then may I suggest nice looking goldfish?

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"Mickey" wrote in message
...
Well if I am reading this correctly you pond is 12 foot x 3 foot x 3 foot
which equals 808 gallons.

http://www.aquariumpharm.com/pondcalculator.html


"CC" wrote in message
...
Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.

I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned
for
months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and
fascinated
by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and enjoying
them.

One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end
of
the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.

The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.

The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.

I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best
friends
and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without
feeling
a
knot in my stomach.

Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went
out
and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and
repopulated
the pond.

I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I
must
add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)

2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have
the
pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the
pond
and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all
the
chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is
900/1200
gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.

I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps
do
their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from
pond
shops to uphold her way of doing things.

I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.

Ideas?

Thank you very much

Pond in California

When did Rancho Cucamonga move to Canada?? I sure am going to miss all
you folks over there! Maybe we can repopulate all the vineyards in the
vacated area?!?

Just Me "Koi" wrote:

When you stir up the murk at the bottom of an old pond, you release some
deadly gas that is deadly enough to kill your fish!

Then as they are struggling from the gas, you throw in un-conditioned tap
water with chloramines and no fish that I know of will survive that 1-2
knockout punch.

Of course I say this as if I know it to be so for sure! Far from it, since
I've never been a Koi before, I can only repeat what I've been told in the
past!

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"CC" wrote in message
...


Thank you for your answer. I am in Sacramento CA, not CAnada, sorry (but


my


wife is from Vancouver BC). I too have too many plants, mostly water


lilies,


but thank you for the offer. If I lived there I would have enjoyed meeting
you.
I was not aware that I had too many Koi. 25+ (the ones that died) did seem
too many to me, but they were very happy even in the murky water. Also,


they


all died overnight (some died after discovering the disaster, I agonized
alongside with them), and they died of whatever went on in the pond due to
the hose left in and the filter not functioning.

Now I have 12 + a goldfish, the lone survivor, but they are small, very
small with only 2 approaching the size of the previous fish.
Also I am used to the metric system and volume calculations have never


been


my forte. The pond is L shaped, 12ftx3ft and 3ft deep more or less. the
conversion from ft to gal. escapes me completely, so my pond could be
larger, or smaller for that matter, somebody eyeballed it for me but I do
not trust their judgment much more than I trust mine.

I realize that aquariums stores give terrible advice, which is why I came
here. I have been reading all the past posts and they have been very
helpful.

As why they died, my wife insists that they must have suffocated due to


the


water hose stirring up the silt off the bottom and severely clouding the
water. It could have been, they all died as if trying to escape the pond.

I'll keep on reading, and I thank you for your response.

CC





"Just Me "Koi"" wrote in message
.. .


The responses below answers your questions. For the size of your pond


you


do have too many Koi.

From the rule of thumb bounced around here, assuming 1200 gallons you


should


have 3 Koi. Unless you really watch all your parameters like a hawk!

Where in California are you. I am in Rancho Cucamonga (By Ontario


Airport


in case you need a hand and free plants! I have way too many plants,


and


don't have the heart to throw them away)

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"CC" wrote in message
...


Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.

I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned


for


months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and


fascinated


by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and


enjoying


them.

One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end


of


the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.

The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.

The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.

I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best


friends


and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without


feeling


a


knot in my stomach.

Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went


out


and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and


repopulated


the pond.

I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I


must


add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)

2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have


the


pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the


pond


and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all


the


chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is


900/1200


gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.

I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps


do


their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from


pond


shops to uphold her way of doing things.

I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.

Ideas?

Thank you very much

Pond in California

I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I must
add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)

Chlorine probably.

Put the fish in a container of the water from their pond, then clean
the pond. Fill, and then put de-chlorinator in the newly filled pond,
and then put the fish back in when the time is up for the
de-chlorinator's purpose. The bottle will tell you when it has done
its job.

Hi, I must have been very tired last night. To the gentleman in Ontario
airport, sorry. I confused your post with someone else and I responded
accordingly. Of course you are in california. Not Canada. I put together
your post with someone else's.

Also, thank you for the responses. This morning I re- measured the pond, and
it is far bigger than I thought (I told you the American system is hard for
me, even after 20 years) It looks like it is at least double that and
probably deeper, water can be deceiving, the shape does not help either, it
goes around the bend.

The response of the hose stirring out the bottom makes the most sense with
my eyewitness evaluation. The hose had a hi-powered nozzle I was using to
blast dirt off the house, and I was called inside but I forgot to shut it
off. The pressure moved it toward the pond, where it fell in, and stirred
the bottom clean.

Whoever my pond didn't know what they were doing, as an example, the pond
sits on a slope, but they measured the pond height not with a level, but
from the ground up. Also, they had all the filters and goodies, but they
were not installed, as if they got tired and abandoned the project. I know
that the garden was made as a Masters degree project in landscaping by the
previous owner. She must have run out of time or money, or both.

Thank you for your help.







"Just Me "Koi"" wrote in message
...
The responses below answers your questions. For the size of your pond you
do have too many Koi.

From the rule of thumb bounced around here, assuming 1200 gallons you
should
have 3 Koi. Unless you really watch all your parameters like a hawk!

Where in California are you. I am in Rancho Cucamonga (By Ontario Airport
in case you need a hand and free plants! I have way too many plants, and
don't have the heart to throw them away)

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"CC" wrote in message
...
Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.

I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned
for
months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and
fascinated
by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and enjoying
them.

One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end
of
the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.

The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.

The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.

I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best
friends
and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without
feeling
a
knot in my stomach.

Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went
out
and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and
repopulated
the pond.

I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I
must
add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)

2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have
the
pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the
pond
and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all
the
chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is
900/1200
gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.

I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps
do
their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from
pond
shops to uphold her way of doing things.

I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.

Ideas?

Thank you very much

Pond in California

Dont run hose water in the pond with dechlorinating it!

Get rid of all but 1-2 koi

I am very sorry for your loss.









On Sun, 9 May 2004 00:21:19 +0200, "CC" wrote:

Thank you for your answer. I am in Sacramento CA, not CAnada, sorry
(but my
wife is from Vancouver BC). I too have too many plants, mostly water
lilies,
but thank you for the offer. If I lived there I would have enjoyed
meeting
you.
I was not aware that I had too many Koi. 25+ (the ones that died) did
seem
too many to me, but they were very happy even in the murky water.
Also, they
all died overnight (some died after discovering the disaster, I
agonized
alongside with them), and they died of whatever went on in the pond
due to
the hose left in and the filter not functioning.

Now I have 12 + a goldfish, the lone survivor, but they are small,
very
small with only 2 approaching the size of the previous fish.
Also I am used to the metric system and volume calculations have
never been
my forte. The pond is L shaped, 12ftx3ft and 3ft deep more or less.
the
conversion from ft to gal. escapes me completely, so my pond could be
larger, or smaller for that matter, somebody eyeballed it for me but
I do
not trust their judgment much more than I trust mine.

I realize that aquariums stores give terrible advice, which is why I
came
here. I have been reading all the past posts and they have been very
helpful.

As why they died, my wife insists that they must have suffocated due
to the
water hose stirring up the silt off the bottom and severely clouding
the
water. It could have been, they all died as if trying to escape the
pond.

I'll keep on reading, and I thank you for your response.

CC





"Just Me "Koi"" wrote in message
. ..
The responses below answers your questions. For the size of your
pond you
do have too many Koi.

From the rule of thumb bounced around here, assuming 1200 gallons
you
should
have 3 Koi. Unless you really watch all your parameters like a
hawk!

Where in California are you. I am in Rancho Cucamonga (By Ontario
Airport
in case you need a hand and free plants! I have way too many
plants, and
don't have the heart to throw them away)

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"CC" wrote in message
...
Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.

I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left
abandoned
for
months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and
fascinated
by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and
enjoying
them.

One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward
the end
of
the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.

The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around
the
overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.

The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.

I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my
best
friends
and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without
feeling
a
knot in my stomach.

Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I)
went
out
and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and
repopulated
the pond.

I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I
feel I
must
add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)

2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather
have
the
pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying
the
pond
and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac
and all
the
chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond
is
900/1200
gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered
pumps.

I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and
pumps
do
their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions
from
pond
shops to uphold her way of doing things.

I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken
again.

Ideas?

Thank you very much

Pond in California

Hi, I am the OP here, under a different name. I use google and another
newsreader and the posts look very different and it is confusing,
sorry for the mess I have made of all the posts and relative answers.

To recap:

The pond where the fish died was abandoned for months. The first week
I didn't even know there were fish in it. All the pumps but one were
disconnected and the one that was working did so poorly.

After reading all your kind answers, I believe the fish died of
poisoning from gasses released by the pond's bottom. The chlorine
level (my first suspicion) was fine, our water is very low in chlorine
(actually, no chlorine was found in the test) and I have had it tested
both before and after the accident. Due to the shabby constructions
and many leaks, the previous owners had a hose refilling the pond
every night with the irrigation system. That had gone on for months
without harming the fish.

As I said, not knowing better we went out and bought 12 baby kois, we
felt we had to replenish the once that died. Some are growing and some
are still very little. When they'll grow too big, my neighbor will
take them as she converted her swimming pool into a very large pond
(pool is half size Olympic). So I am not worried about them growing to
monster sizes.

I am still curious about the standards used to define populations of
koi Vs. pond capacity: My kois are very happy and at their present
size they hardly seem to populate the pond, even if they grow to the
sizes of their predecessors I don't see a problem.

I know have 3 pumps with biological filters and a supply of water
conditioners good enough to treat a small lake, plus I have made a
waterfall going from a pump into a large (very large) pot that was a
water garden once, there I put a skimmer pump to leave the residues at
the bottom and pump the water back into the pond. It looks pretty and
according to articles I read, it should act as a potent bio-filter.

Basically, I turned this pond into a very large aquarium. And, no
matter what, I am not getting rid of any of my Koi, unless they grow
big enough to beat me up.

My goal is not so much to have the prettiest pond around, but to host
the fish in a way they are happy and healthy.

One other note: I seem to remember that Goldfish, or Carps in general,
grow in relation to their habitat. Is this a myth? If it is not, than
how do you know what fish will grow large and what will not? It seems
to me that measuring Gallons=Fish# is not accurate because it doesn't
take into consideration how big the fish is. 10 baby koi get lost in
my pond, but if I were to get the monsters I have seen at my local
pond shop, one of them alone wouldn't be able to turn around.
Anyway, thank you for all your help

One other note: I seem to remember that Goldfish, or Carps in general,
grow in relation to their habitat. Is this a myth?

Yes, that one is a myth, little food, high nitrAtes (poor water quality)
will stunt a fish of the carp variety.

If it is not, than
how do you know what fish will grow large and what will not? It seems
to me that measuring Gallons=Fish# is not accurate

It's not really, just a safe rule of thumb, especially for the novice. In
actuality it's the size of your filter that determines number.
Unfortunately, if your filter dies, power goes out, etc., those who have
more fish/gallon lose. Not to mention, smaller pond, more stress on the
fish when they get bigger due to crowding.

CC, you seem to be on the right track now. Regarding the chlorine it could
have gased off or detoxed on the pond bottom debris by the time you tested
it, doesn't mean it wasn't high coming out of the hose. Most municipalities
are suppose to have chlorine levels out of the tap at 2ppm, this is plenty
enough to fried fish gills.

Do you have the required tests kits, ammonia, nitrite, pH & KH? A pond
thermometer to know the water temp? These are must have's in my book.
You'll have to watch your water quality as chlorine also kills the
bio-filter, and a bio-filter takes 4-6 weeks to get up to snuff. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

How are you making the link between Rancho Cucamonga and Canada? Did I goof
and tell a lie somewhere?

If my Ontario Airport confused the issue, then my apologies. The Ontario
Airport I referenced is in California, east of Los Angeles.

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"Mark and Kim Smith" wrote in message
...
When did Rancho Cucamonga move to Canada?? I sure am going to miss all
you folks over there! Maybe we can repopulate all the vineyards in the
vacated area?!?

Just Me "Koi" wrote:

When you stir up the murk at the bottom of an old pond, you release some
deadly gas that is deadly enough to kill your fish!

Then as they are struggling from the gas, you throw in un-conditioned tap
water with chloramines and no fish that I know of will survive that 1-2
knockout punch.

Of course I say this as if I know it to be so for sure! Far from it,
since
I've never been a Koi before, I can only repeat what I've been told in
the
past!

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"CC" wrote in message
...


Thank you for your answer. I am in Sacramento CA, not CAnada, sorry (but


my


wife is from Vancouver BC). I too have too many plants, mostly water


lilies,


but thank you for the offer. If I lived there I would have enjoyed
meeting
you.
I was not aware that I had too many Koi. 25+ (the ones that died) did
seem
too many to me, but they were very happy even in the murky water. Also,


they


all died overnight (some died after discovering the disaster, I agonized
alongside with them), and they died of whatever went on in the pond due
to
the hose left in and the filter not functioning.

Now I have 12 + a goldfish, the lone survivor, but they are small, very
small with only 2 approaching the size of the previous fish.
Also I am used to the metric system and volume calculations have never


been


my forte. The pond is L shaped, 12ftx3ft and 3ft deep more or less. the
conversion from ft to gal. escapes me completely, so my pond could be
larger, or smaller for that matter, somebody eyeballed it for me but I
do
not trust their judgment much more than I trust mine.

I realize that aquariums stores give terrible advice, which is why I
came
here. I have been reading all the past posts and they have been very
helpful.

As why they died, my wife insists that they must have suffocated due to


the


water hose stirring up the silt off the bottom and severely clouding the
water. It could have been, they all died as if trying to escape the
pond.

I'll keep on reading, and I thank you for your response.

CC





"Just Me "Koi"" wrote in message
.. .


The responses below answers your questions. For the size of your pond


you


do have too many Koi.

From the rule of thumb bounced around here, assuming 1200 gallons you


should


have 3 Koi. Unless you really watch all your parameters like a hawk!

Where in California are you. I am in Rancho Cucamonga (By Ontario


Airport


in case you need a hand and free plants! I have way too many plants,


and


don't have the heart to throw them away)

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"CC" wrote in message
...


Hi, a couple of months ago I moved in a new house with a pond.

I was thrilled, but I soon discovered that the pond was left abandoned


for


months. I knew nothing of ponds, but quickly I grew attached and


fascinated


by my Kois. I spent many days by the pond feeding the kois and


enjoying


them.

One day, we were trying to get the dead leaves out, and toward the end


of


the day a garden hose fell in the pond. I did not noticed.

The day after, I found 28 dead kois (7" to 12") splashed around the
overfilled pond and one lone small goldfish alive inside.

The hose was spraying full force and the pond was crystal clear.

I was devastated! I cried like a baby. These kois had become my best


friends


and my morning ritual. To this day I can't go by the pond without


feeling


a


knot in my stomach.

Being new at ponds and not knowing any better, we (my wife and I) went


out


and bought 12 baby kois (we had the water tested beforehand) and


repopulated


the pond.

I have 2 questions: 1) What did the kois died of? One thing I feel I


must


add is that the filter was clogged when I found them)

2) my wife is obsessed with the pond being clear, I would rather have


the


pond dirty and happy, live Kois. She is going ahead with emptying the


pond


and clean the muck from the bottom. We have a Pump wet-dry vac and all


the


chemicals plus the testing strips. How would you do it? The pond is


900/1200


gallons, 3-4 ft deep and L shaped. We have now 3 bio-filtered pumps.

I am telling my wife to leave it alone and let the chemicals and pumps


do


their work, but she won't listen and has acquired enough opinions from


pond


shops to uphold her way of doing things.

I, don't want to lose one single Koi, or I'll be heartbroken again.

Ideas?

Thank you very much

Pond in California