I've Googled but can't find anything specific so does anyone know if
salt at up to 0.3% will harm tadpoles?

We have been fighting something since last year and nothing much seems
to help.

It's a 700US gallon pond and had 25 goldfish, up to about 6inches long,
and a large green tench. During last summer they started to get
semicircular wounds on their bodies and one had it's face eaten away.
We assumed it was a large dragonfly nymph. We treated the pond with
antibacterial medication and it cleared things up until the next time.

At the beginning of October we emptied the pond to try and find this
nymph. We cleaned the pond totally and sieved the sediment but didn't
find anything. There wasn't a trace of the usual pond life which we
found surprising. We repotted all of the plants after washing them so
we were starting off with what was effectively a new pond.

Unfortunately the summer ended then and with the temperature now lowish
the fish weren't healing well. We put a 3kw immersion heater in to warm
things up, it was inside a water jacket to prevent the copper from the
element getting into the pond water and we bought a copper test kit to
make sure, we didn't have any measurable amount of copper. The fish
healed although some of the bad ones didn't make it.

Once we stopped the heating it came back again. In February we heated
it to 18C again and PP'd the pond and again things cleared up. Once we
stopped heating there were signs of it returning but the weather was
warming up and as the temperature rose they healed.

We have had a cold spell recently and it has come back again so we are
going to try salt now which is why I'm asking about the tadpoles.

Water is crystal clear. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are not
measurable. GH is between 10 and 16, KH 10 and PH 7.2. Filtration is a
Fish Mate 15000 (3000 in the US) pressurised filter with 50l of Kaldnes
media in the bio tank. We had a lot of string algae in the stream but
we always get that in the spring and it clears up once the plants get
going.

Whatever this is it's active when the water temperature drops. The
wounds on the fish are like ulcers and sometimes they get fungus on the
wounds, but that's only to be expected. All fresh water is treated with
Interpet Fresh Start.

We are in North Yorkshire, UK and any suggestions would be very welcome
at this stage. We've lost about half the goldfish now but don't want to
replace them until this has been cleared up. I doubt if we will get any
replacements this year since things are warming up and we need to go
through another winter to be certain it's really gone.


Regards - Rodney Pont email: ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

--
posted from HTMl frontend

"Rodney Pont" wrote in message
s.com...
I've Googled but can't find anything specific so does anyone know if
salt at up to 0.3% will harm tadpoles?

We have been fighting something since last year and nothing much seems
to help.

It's a 700US gallon pond and had 25 goldfish, up to about 6inches long,
and a large green tench. During last summer they started to get
semicircular wounds on their bodies and one had it's face eaten away.
snip

Could this be damage from a predator?

BV.

Rodney wrote
During last summer they started to get
semicircular wounds on their bodies and one had it's face eaten away.

This is not the kind of damage a dragonfly nymph would do. And it would not
attack large fish.
Dragonfly nymphs prey on fish fry and very small fish. They grab them with
their jaw parts (think the second set of teeth in Alien) and then they tear
their prey apart and eat it. There would never be a circular wound.




kathy :-)
A HREF="http://www.onceuponapond.com/"Once upon a pond/A

roundish wounds sound like something is sucking on their slime coat. got an algae
eater in that pond?
net the pond and keep everything out of there. Ingrid


"Rodney Pont" wrote:
It's a 700US gallon pond and had 25 goldfish, up to about 6inches long,
and a large green tench. During last summer they started to get
semicircular wounds on their bodies and one had it's face eaten away.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

since you are in teh UK I called Jo Ann and she said:
"get some antibiotic like kanacin or oxolinic acid. he needs to do a food thing
treatment and do the 3 times with PP treatments he has columnaris flexibacter and it
will just keep coming back cause it went systemic."
PP here http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/disease/disease.htm
in the treatment section. Ingrid

"Rodney Pont" wrote:

I've Googled but can't find anything specific so does anyone know if
salt at up to 0.3% will harm tadpoles?

We have been fighting something since last year and nothing much seems
to help.

It's a 700US gallon pond and had 25 goldfish, up to about 6inches long,
and a large green tench. During last summer they started to get
semicircular wounds on their bodies and one had it's face eaten away.
We assumed it was a large dragonfly nymph. We treated the pond with
antibacterial medication and it cleared things up until the next time.

At the beginning of October we emptied the pond to try and find this
nymph. We cleaned the pond totally and sieved the sediment but didn't
find anything. There wasn't a trace of the usual pond life which we
found surprising. We repotted all of the plants after washing them so
we were starting off with what was effectively a new pond.

Unfortunately the summer ended then and with the temperature now lowish
the fish weren't healing well. We put a 3kw immersion heater in to warm
things up, it was inside a water jacket to prevent the copper from the
element getting into the pond water and we bought a copper test kit to
make sure, we didn't have any measurable amount of copper. The fish
healed although some of the bad ones didn't make it.

Once we stopped the heating it came back again. In February we heated
it to 18C again and PP'd the pond and again things cleared up. Once we
stopped heating there were signs of it returning but the weather was
warming up and as the temperature rose they healed.

We have had a cold spell recently and it has come back again so we are
going to try salt now which is why I'm asking about the tadpoles.

Water is crystal clear. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are not
measurable. GH is between 10 and 16, KH 10 and PH 7.2. Filtration is a
Fish Mate 15000 (3000 in the US) pressurised filter with 50l of Kaldnes
media in the bio tank. We had a lot of string algae in the stream but
we always get that in the spring and it clears up once the plants get
going.

Whatever this is it's active when the water temperature drops. The
wounds on the fish are like ulcers and sometimes they get fungus on the
wounds, but that's only to be expected. All fresh water is treated with
Interpet Fresh Start.

We are in North Yorkshire, UK and any suggestions would be very welcome
at this stage. We've lost about half the goldfish now but don't want to
replace them until this has been cleared up. I doubt if we will get any
replacements this year since things are warming up and we need to go
through another winter to be certain it's really gone.


Regards - Rodney Pont email: ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

On Thu, 27 May 2004 18:39:24 GMT, wrote:

roundish wounds sound like something is sucking on their slime coat. got an algae
eater in that pond?
net the pond and keep everything out of there. Ingrid

No, just goldfish and a green tench. The wounds weren't completely
round, just like the circumference of a circle. If the circle had been
completed it would have been about an inch and a half in diameter but
the arc was only about half an inch long.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

On Thu, 27 May 2004 20:32:57 GMT, wrote:

since you are in teh UK I called Jo Ann and she said:
"get some antibiotic like kanacin or oxolinic acid. he needs to do a food thing
treatment and do the 3 times with PP treatments he has columnaris flexibacter and it
will just keep coming back cause it went systemic."
PP here http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/disease/disease.htm
in the treatment section. Ingrid

Thanks for that. This,
http://www.fish-helpline.co.uk/health/columnaris.html says it likes
cool water conditions and ours certainly does. We'll have a word with
the vet about antibiotics.

Thanks again.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

On 27 May 2004 14:44:11 GMT, Ka30P wrote:

Rodney wrote
During last summer they started to get
semicircular wounds on their bodies and one had it's face eaten away.

This is not the kind of damage a dragonfly nymph would do. And it would not
attack large fish.
Dragonfly nymphs prey on fish fry and very small fish. They grab them with
their jaw parts (think the second set of teeth in Alien) and then they tear
their prey apart and eat it. There would never be a circular wound.

I thought it was only the lower jaw of the nymph that extended so I
assumed it grabbed the fish and ate as much as it could reach while it
hung on. When we emptied the pond there was no waterlife and usually it
teems with things so I assumed it was starving and tried for a fish. We
do have Emperor dragonflies and I assume that a nymph of one of those
is quite big. The fish that had it's face eaten away was the smallest
one we had at the time, about 5 inches long. We haven't had anything
attacked since we cleaned the pond out last year but just couldn't
clear the bacterial infection. We'll have a word with the vet about
antibiotics.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

wrote in message
...
columnaris typically attacks the mouth, white threads around the mouth is
nearly
diagnostic. in fact, it is often called "mouth rot". Ingrid

Not to nit pick...well OK exactly to nit pick...the OP never mentioned
anything about threads or mouth damage, aside fromt the one fish that had
it's "face eaten off". Would it not make more sense to take a dead fish to
the vet and get it tested before you begin dosing for a disease that you are
not sure of?

BV.

On Fri, 28 May 2004 09:16:38 -0400, Benign Vanilla wrote:

columnaris typically attacks the mouth, white threads around the mouth is
nearly
diagnostic. in fact, it is often called "mouth rot". Ingrid

Not to nit pick...well OK exactly to nit pick...the OP never mentioned
anything about threads or mouth damage, aside fromt the one fish that had
it's "face eaten off". Would it not make more sense to take a dead fish to
the vet and get it tested before you begin dosing for a disease that you are
not sure of?

I'd rather treat it and not loose another fish than wait. The vet isn't
really well up on fish and is looking into what antibiotics they can
recommend. We are really restricted on what we can use here. The fact
that it gets worse when the water temperature falls makes me inclined
to think that it is columnaris and that it's now internal due to the
faeces being white.

The fish with it's face eaten away was fine the night before but
floating dead the next morning. Being in the UK we don't have a lot of
predators, apart from the herons and the pond is netted against them.

I've been posting questions about this on and off since November but
didn't realise my news server was set to keep posts for this group
local so I saw my post but it wasn't sent to the world. I only realised
when a web based news reader I'm testing didn't show the post, so I
have been trying to get help but just thought no one had any
suggestions.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

Do you have snakes, weasels, rats, turtles? If its face was eaten off over
night, you have predators or we have one REALLY nasty bacteria out there.

--
***************************************
Listen to Air America Radio
http://www.airamericaradio.com
***************************************
"Rodney Pont" wrote in message
news:atcfzvasbuvgflfgrzfygqhx.hygfvf0.pminews@ihs1 ...
On Fri, 28 May 2004 09:16:38 -0400, Benign Vanilla wrote:

columnaris typically attacks the mouth, white threads around the mouth
is
nearly
diagnostic. in fact, it is often called "mouth rot". Ingrid

Not to nit pick...well OK exactly to nit pick...the OP never mentioned
anything about threads or mouth damage, aside fromt the one fish that had
it's "face eaten off". Would it not make more sense to take a dead fish
to
the vet and get it tested before you begin dosing for a disease that you
are
not sure of?

I'd rather treat it and not loose another fish than wait. The vet isn't
really well up on fish and is looking into what antibiotics they can
recommend. We are really restricted on what we can use here. The fact
that it gets worse when the water temperature falls makes me inclined
to think that it is columnaris and that it's now internal due to the
faeces being white.

The fish with it's face eaten away was fine the night before but
floating dead the next morning. Being in the UK we don't have a lot of
predators, apart from the herons and the pond is netted against them.

I've been posting questions about this on and off since November but
didn't realise my news server was set to keep posts for this group
local so I saw my post but it wasn't sent to the world. I only realised
when a web based news reader I'm testing didn't show the post, so I
have been trying to get help but just thought no one had any
suggestions.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

On Sat, 29 May 2004 01:41:42 GMT, dkat wrote:

Do you have snakes, weasels, rats, turtles? If its face was eaten off over
night, you have predators or we have one REALLY nasty bacteria out there.

We are in the vale of York and snakes are unknown here, as far as I'm
aware, but it would have taken the complete fish. It was eaten in the
water in a netted pond so stoats, weasels and rats are unlikely. If a
turtle had been released we would have seen it in the pond.

My favourite is still a starving Emperor dragonfly nymph. I just can't
think of anything else that would give that type of bite. It was lots
of small ones, like a caterpillar does to a leaf.

Whatever it was isn't around now, we've just got to get rid of the
bacteria that's taken hold.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

Ever read All Creatures Great and Small (actually there were several and
they all were based on All Creatures... anyway)? One part of the writing
that I liked so much was the mystery involved and the solving of it. This
feels like that and I really want to find the cause for the pleasures sake.
I had not realized the fish was as small as I later read - I'm guessing the
head was no more than an inch long.... so we are talking something that took
what.. a 1/2 inch of fish? The thing is it would have to be strong enough
to be able to get away with it. I mean if you were this fish would you put
up with something chewing on you without putting up a fight of some sort...
And you are sure it was happy and healthy the evening before? That it
hadn't died and something took advantage of the situation..

--
***************************************
Listen to Air America Radio
http://www.airamericaradio.com
***************************************
"Rodney Pont" wrote in message
news:atcfzvasbuvgflfgrzfygqhx.hygx2c0.pminews@ihs1 ...
On Sat, 29 May 2004 01:41:42 GMT, dkat wrote:

Do you have snakes, weasels, rats, turtles? If its face was eaten off
over
night, you have predators or we have one REALLY nasty bacteria out there.

We are in the vale of York and snakes are unknown here, as far as I'm
aware, but it would have taken the complete fish. It was eaten in the
water in a netted pond so stoats, weasels and rats are unlikely. If a
turtle had been released we would have seen it in the pond.

My favourite is still a starving Emperor dragonfly nymph. I just can't
think of anything else that would give that type of bite. It was lots
of small ones, like a caterpillar does to a leaf.

Whatever it was isn't around now, we've just got to get rid of the
bacteria that's taken hold.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

Thanks for that. This,
http://www.fish-helpline.co.uk/health/columnaris.html says it likes
cool water conditions and ours certainly does. We'll have a word with
the vet about antibiotics.

MediKoi is an antibotic food, if your fish are eating. TriCide Neo is a dip
that will take care of the problem if they're not.

You mentioned sediment in one post and that is where many bad bacterias
like to hang out, so I hope you removed as much as possible. A bad-bacteria
controller that we use here is called KoiZyme. See if you can find these
products in your area or a UK based internet pond shop.

Please let us know what happens. ~ jan


(Do you know where your water quality is?)

On Sun, 30 May 2004 00:56:18 GMT, dkat wrote:

Ever read All Creatures Great and Small (actually there were several and
they all were based on All Creatures... anyway)? One part of the writing
that I liked so much was the mystery involved and the solving of it. This
feels like that and I really want to find the cause for the pleasures sake.
I had not realized the fish was as small as I later read - I'm guessing the
head was no more than an inch long.... so we are talking something that took
what.. a 1/2 inch of fish? The thing is it would have to be strong enough
to be able to get away with it. I mean if you were this fish would you put
up with something chewing on you without putting up a fight of some sort...
And you are sure it was happy and healthy the evening before? That it
hadn't died and something took advantage of the situation..

Yes I've read several of the books and watched the TV series. The vet
who wrote the books had a practice in Thirsk which isn't very far north
of me.

This fish was one of the smallest at the time, just over 4 inches if I
remember correctly. About 3/4 of an inch (length) of the head was eaten
from one side but not quite half way through. It was a comet, one of my
favourite fishes so it was one I kept an eye on more than the others.
It was fine the night before. I suppose it depends on how much damage
was done with the first bite, whatever had been chewing had plenty of
time to make several bites.

The other fish that were bitten had wounds in the lower body that
looked like something had eaten a semicircle of what it could reach
while it could hang on.

The largest fish in the pond is a fully grown green tench, maybe it ate
the perpetrator in the end.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk