My fifteen goldfish died practically overnight last week. They had been
thriving in my pond for about 8 years. I think the reason was that the
auto-fill device started to leak tap water into the pond at a rate fast
enough to change 100% of the water in 24 hours.

--
Don
"Gold_fish" wrote in message
.. .

I had 13 lovely gold fish 3 weeks ago and am only left with 4. They one
by one started to lay at the bottom of the tank. I then seperated the
sick one to isolation where they began to gasp for air. (look like) Not
long after it would die. This is very sudden and is killing all my fish
one by one. can anyone help me please.

naomi


--
Gold_fish

On or about Fri, 24 Dec 2004 13:53:02 -0800, ~ jan JJsPond.us
wrote something like:

http://www.fantasticfihpond.com

who wrote or compiled the book
and the references used by chance? ~ jan

Tyler Gregory Hicks

Crashj, do you have the book, and if so, what do you think? If I get some
positive input from regulars on RP, I will suggest my club purchase it.

It's a joke. He is the 'make millions from crappy real estate deals'
guy. He appears to also be an engineer who does legitimate handbooks.
I do not know if they are really the same guy, but the fish book
looked like a scam with all the excess of enthusiasm.

--
Crashj

On or about Fri, 24 Dec 2004 13:53:02 -0800, ~ jan JJsPond.us
wrote something like:

http://www.fantasticfihpond.com

who wrote or compiled the book
and the references used by chance? ~ jan

Tyler Gregory Hicks

Crashj, do you have the book, and if so, what do you think? If I get some
positive input from regulars on RP, I will suggest my club purchase it.

It's a joke. He is the 'make millions from crappy real estate deals'
guy. He appears to also be an engineer who does legitimate handbooks.
I do not know if they are really the same guy, but the fish book
looked like a scam with all the excess of enthusiasm.

--
Crashj

On or about Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:29:46 -0800, "Don"
dbitzerATcomcastDOTnet wrote something like:

My fifteen goldfish died practically overnight last week. They had been
thriving in my pond for about 8 years. I think the reason was that the
auto-fill device started to leak tap water into the pond at a rate fast
enough to change 100% of the water in 24 hours.

I've got to think that a chlorine filter filter on an autofill is
cheap insurance. I know my showerhead filter makes me feel better and
I am only in there for a few minutes a day.
--
Crashj

On or about Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:29:46 -0800, "Don"
dbitzerATcomcastDOTnet wrote something like:

My fifteen goldfish died practically overnight last week. They had been
thriving in my pond for about 8 years. I think the reason was that the
auto-fill device started to leak tap water into the pond at a rate fast
enough to change 100% of the water in 24 hours.

I've got to think that a chlorine filter filter on an autofill is
cheap insurance. I know my showerhead filter makes me feel better and
I am only in there for a few minutes a day.
--
Crashj

Crashj, do you have the book, and if so, what do you think? If I get some
positive input from regulars on RP, I will suggest my club purchase it.

It's a joke. He is the 'make millions from crappy real estate deals'
guy. He appears to also be an engineer who does legitimate handbooks.
I do not know if they are really the same guy, but the fish book
looked like a scam with all the excess of enthusiasm.

The website sell sure did sound as you describe, hard sell. ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

wrote in message
...
when people's fish are dying salt happens to be one thing they can do that
isnt toxic
if the gills arent fried and right after water changes. Ingrid

"Benign Vanilla" wrote:
2. Don't add salt
2a. without knowing what your current salinity is
2b. because salt is not a cure all

Another thing they can do is (are)...

1. Test the water to determine if any parameters are out
2. Do a water change, dechlored of course
3. Aerate

I am not saying Salt is a no/no, but I don't agree that every solution
should involved salt, ESPECIALLY, when it's a newbie asking for help. I
can't count how many times, I have heard the solution to be salt, with
amounts provided, and no body mentions checking the current salinity before
adding the salt.

This topic reminds of "My Big Fat Greek Weeding", your fish is sick? Just
spray windex on it.


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

wrote in message
...
EMERGENCY
1. check the water parameters: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates
2. do the fish physical
3. change some or all of the water, if the gills arent fried add 1
teaspoon of salt
per 5 gallons. This can be increased to 3 teas. per 5 over a few days. Use
rock salt
with no additives.
4. from the water parameters and physical decide on a course of action
5. if there is nothing specific, do the tub to tub method

"ajames54" wrote:
do a partial water change 30 -50 %
if you have any sea / kosher / pickleing salt add a level teaspoon for
every 100 gallons of water.. don't add table salt

post back with more details..
Size of tank/pond
type of filter
water temps
water test results

This is a perfect example of the dangers of salt. Two posts, similar
instructions, but way different numbers, and NEITHER post suggests checking
the current salinity before adding more salt. Suppose this fish is dieing
from the salinity being high?


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

wrote in message
...
EMERGENCY
1. check the water parameters: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates
2. do the fish physical
3. change some or all of the water, if the gills arent fried add 1
teaspoon of salt
per 5 gallons. This can be increased to 3 teas. per 5 over a few days. Use
rock salt
with no additives.
4. from the water parameters and physical decide on a course of action
5. if there is nothing specific, do the tub to tub method

"ajames54" wrote:
do a partial water change 30 -50 %
if you have any sea / kosher / pickleing salt add a level teaspoon for
every 100 gallons of water.. don't add table salt

post back with more details..
Size of tank/pond
type of filter
water temps
water test results

This is a perfect example of the dangers of salt. Two posts, similar
instructions, but way different numbers, and NEITHER post suggests checking
the current salinity before adding more salt. Suppose this fish is dieing
from the salinity being high?


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:11:23 -0500, "Benign Vanilla"
wrote:

===
wrote in message
...
=== EMERGENCY
=== 1. check the water parameters: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates
=== 2. do the fish physical
=== 3. change some or all of the water, if the gills arent fried add 1
===teaspoon of salt
=== per 5 gallons. This can be increased to 3 teas. per 5 over a few days. Use
===rock salt
=== with no additives.
=== 4. from the water parameters and physical decide on a course of action
=== 5. if there is nothing specific, do the tub to tub method
===
=== "ajames54" wrote:
=== do a partial water change 30 -50 %
=== if you have any sea / kosher / pickleing salt add a level teaspoon for
=== every 100 gallons of water.. don't add table salt
===
=== post back with more details..
=== Size of tank/pond
=== type of filter
=== water temps
=== water test results
===
===This is a perfect example of the dangers of salt. Two posts, similar
===instructions, but way different numbers, and NEITHER post suggests checking
===the current salinity before adding more salt. Suppose this fish is dieing
===from the salinity being high?


The foolishness of it all, and one from a so called Expert.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:11:23 -0500, "Benign Vanilla"
wrote:

===
wrote in message
...
=== EMERGENCY
=== 1. check the water parameters: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates
=== 2. do the fish physical
=== 3. change some or all of the water, if the gills arent fried add 1
===teaspoon of salt
=== per 5 gallons. This can be increased to 3 teas. per 5 over a few days. Use
===rock salt
=== with no additives.
=== 4. from the water parameters and physical decide on a course of action
=== 5. if there is nothing specific, do the tub to tub method
===
=== "ajames54" wrote:
=== do a partial water change 30 -50 %
=== if you have any sea / kosher / pickleing salt add a level teaspoon for
=== every 100 gallons of water.. don't add table salt
===
=== post back with more details..
=== Size of tank/pond
=== type of filter
=== water temps
=== water test results
===
===This is a perfect example of the dangers of salt. Two posts, similar
===instructions, but way different numbers, and NEITHER post suggests checking
===the current salinity before adding more salt. Suppose this fish is dieing
===from the salinity being high?


The foolishness of it all, and one from a so called Expert.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

Well...... if we're going to nit-pick. ;o) I'll add that one should post
their parameters here if they don't have a clue what the readings are
telling them, before they do anything.

If one does a water change when the ammonia is high, but the pH has crashed
so it is not toxic, doing a water change with pH 7.1 & up, will turn that
ammonia toxic and kill the fish almost post haste. The higher the pH the
faster the kill.

Check the parameters and report.
Ammonia high, treat the ammonia (Amquell or similar) then do a water change
using same product regardless of chlorine, chloramines, or none, in your
replacement water. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

ammonia drives the pH up, but the lower the pH the safer the ammonia.
nitrites drive the pH down. salt helps prevent nitrite toxicity.
if either is really high a big water change will remove enough that shifts in pH are
going to be more than offset by the benefits of lower toxins. INgrid

If one does a water change when the ammonia is high, but the pH has crashed
so it is not toxic, doing a water change with pH 7.1 & up, will turn that
ammonia toxic and kill the fish almost post haste. The higher the pH the
faster the kill.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

salt levels in tap water do not exceed 0.1% (at least I havent heard of it.. mostly
they are in the 0.06% range). For people with sick fish waiting around to get the
proper test kits is not what I consider prudent. as long as the gills are OK the
salt can be run up to 0.3% for a couple days, so a mere 1 teaspoon of salt per 5
gallons is really not going to drive the salt level excessively high. from 3 can be
done safely without getting the water parameters, adding a bit of salt is safe
without a test kits as long as the gills are healthy red. Ingrid

EMERGENCY
1. check the water parameters: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates
2. do the fish physical
3. change some or all of the water
4. from the water parameters and physical decide on a course of action
5. if there is nothing specific, do the tub to tub method


This is a perfect example of the dangers of salt. Two posts, similar
instructions, but way different numbers, and NEITHER post suggests checking
the current salinity before adding more salt. Suppose this fish is dieing
from the salinity being high?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 03:47:20 GMT, wrote:

ammonia drives the pH up, but the lower the pH the safer the ammonia.
nitrites drive the pH down. salt helps prevent nitrite toxicity.
if either is really high a big water change will remove enough that shifts in pH are
going to be more than offset by the benefits of lower toxins. INgrid

Perhaps, but in a pH crash, the filter quits working and the ammonia is
non-toxic in the lower pH. If the water is changed with a higher pH,
without treating the ammonia it turns it toxic. A large water can be very
stressful. IMO, better to treat the ammonia, do a 20% change, check
buffering adding baking soda if needed and add salt if nitrites are
present.

Prior to ALL that. Check all parameters and report, weigh all options
expressed on usenet. ;o) ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~