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#31
30-05-2005, 10:23 PM
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Reel McKoi wrote:
"Wilmdale" wrote in message ... I just purchaed a 25 lb. bag for $1.97 + tax, US. The bag is red, say "Special Kitty" and the ingredient is 'ground clay'. Think it is the same thing? It looks like a duch ... " W. Dale ================== I bought the same thing and it doesn't clog my filters or glob up. So it must be the right product. :-) How much are you using per gallon or litre? W. Dale |
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#32
01-06-2005, 01:54 AM
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It is gray. Is that the same stuff? W. Dale Hmmmm, not sure. The koi clay I've seen has been more buff or tan in color. Roy seems to know a lot about this, perhaps he can clue us in. I assume anyone buying this would crush it up, not use the nuggets. ;o) ~ jan ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~ |
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#33
01-06-2005, 02:28 AM
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Sodium (western type) is more on the grey side, but it can also be
creame or tan as it depends on what depth it was mined at, and the area it came from up in that area of the country where its mined, which is Montana, Wyoming and the Dakotas . Calcium for the most part is usually a cream of buff / tan color, and ther larger the mesh size the more pronounced the color is....... Both of the bentonites are collodial type clays which means they expand and multiply in size as they get hydrated..........and both will clump to some degree. Sodium will expand upwards of 22 or more times its original size, and calcium can expand up to 5 times, with about 3 being more common. Calcium when wet and mixed feels slick and smooth but not sticky, as sodium is, which feels like a handfull of slugs in a bowl of jello, anmd has a heavy thick body to it. Using granulated form is wasted material as what is in the granule will just expand out and stick to each grain in that granule. Finer mesh gives more surface area and it has to "hunt" for other particles to bond to. You can try crushing it up buyt its almost impossible to do it right without a ball mill. I know folks that have bought kiutty litter to make foundry sand and wore out their wifes blenders, coffee grinders, cake mixers and wore themselves out beating it up into fine particle size with hammers and mortars and pestles, and it still does not work as good as stuff thats ground up uniformly with a ball mill and seived.Kitty littler is sodium so it is not what you want to use.....if it says clumping its definately sodium bentonite ...although it will work fine with plants. I just would not want to run sodium bentonite thorugh a filter system or pipes as it leaves a film and its sediment is going to make things prone to blocking or reducing flow. On Tue, 31 May 2005 17:54:29 -0700, ~ janj JJsPond.us wrote: === ===It is gray. Is that the same stuff? ===W. Dale === ===Hmmmm, not sure. The koi clay I've seen has been more buff or tan in color. ===Roy seems to know a lot about this, perhaps he can clue us in. I assume ===anyone buying this would crush it up, not use the nuggets. ;o) ~ jan === === ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~ ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o |
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#35
01-06-2005, 01:05 PM
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~ janj JJsPond.us wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 01:28:35 GMT, (~Roy~) wrote: Sodium (western type) is more on the grey side, but it can also be creame or tan as it depends on what depth it was mined at, and the area it came from up in that area of the country where its mined, which is Montana, Wyoming and the Dakotas . Calcium for the most part is usually a cream of buff / tan color, and ther larger the mesh size the more pronounced the color is....... Both of the bentonites are collodial type clays which means they expand and multiply in size as they get hydrated..........and both will clump to some degree. Sodium will expand upwards of 22 or more times its original size, and calcium can expand up to 5 times, with about 3 being more common. Calcium when wet and mixed feels slick and smooth but not sticky, as sodium is, which feels like a handfull of slugs in a bowl of jello, anmd has a heavy thick body to it. Using granulated form is wasted material as what is in the granule will just expand out and stick to each grain in that granule. Finer mesh gives more surface area and it has to "hunt" for other particles to bond to. You can try crushing it up buyt its almost impossible to do it right without a ball mill. I know folks that have bought kiutty litter to make foundry sand and wore out their wifes blenders, coffee grinders, cake mixers and wore themselves out beating it up into fine particle size with hammers and mortars and pestles, and it still does not work as good as stuff thats ground up uniformly with a ball mill and seived.Kitty littler is sodium so it is not what you want to use.....if it says clumping its definately sodium bentonite ...although it will work fine with plants. I just would not want to run sodium bentonite thorugh a filter system or pipes as it leaves a film and its sediment is going to make things prone to blocking or reducing flow. Okay, sounds like kitty litter is out, cheapest is not always best. I got a free sample of this: www.perfectearthkoi.com a couple years back, it looks like good stuff. ~ jan ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~ Yep, that is what is sounds like. I wonder what kind of kitty litter all those other posters are talking about? I put some water on the wally world stuff and it did not clump as much as dissolve, sort of. On another note, what is everyone's favorite pump? Thanks for the input everybody! :-) W. Dale |
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#36
02-06-2005, 04:01 AM
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"~ janj JJsPond.us" wrote in message ... Okay, sounds like kitty litter is out, cheapest is not always best. I got a free sample of this: www.perfectearthkoi.com a couple years back, it looks like good stuff. ~ jan ========================================== In 4 lbs boxes$24.95/box delivered Full case (8 x 4 lbs boxes)$159.60/case delivered Pail (50 lbs)$255/pail delivered For CLAY!!! :-D Kitty-Litter = 50 lbs for $3.99 = how did our fish ever live and reporduce without all these "supplements?" -- McKoi.... the frugal ponder... EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED. Do not feed the trolls. ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o |
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#37
02-06-2005, 01:00 PM
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Yea kitty litter for $3.99.....cheap enough, but the wrong material no matter what the case, why not use just dirt it would serve the same purpose and is even cheaper and probably do just as good........ if your so darned intent on using sodium bentonite for koi clay substitute.... then any media would serve.............duh! On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:01:15 -0500, "Koi4Me" wrote: === ==="~ janj JJsPond.us" wrote in message ===news:lafq91hsv3euftes001d7splloadj3d7du@4ax. com... === Okay, sounds like kitty litter is out, cheapest is not always best. I got ===a === free sample of this: www.perfectearthkoi.com a couple years back, it ===looks === like good stuff. ~ jan ============================================= ===In 4 lbs boxes$24.95/box delivered ===Full case (8 x 4 lbs boxes)$159.60/case delivered ===Pail (50 lbs)$255/pail delivered === ===For CLAY!!! :-D === ===Kitty-Litter = 50 lbs for $3.99 = how did our fish ever live and reporduce ===without all these "supplements?" ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o |
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#38
02-06-2005, 04:17 PM
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Yea kitty litter for $3.99.....cheap enough, but the wrong material no
matter what the case, why not use just dirt it would serve the same purpose and is even cheaper and probably do just as good........ if your so darned intent on using sodium bentonite for koi clay substitute.... then any media would serve.............duh! Yep, (I agree) why bother if it isn't going to give the results. For those of us with koi that we want to bring out their colors to their fullest one has to use the right stuff. ~ jan ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~ |
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#39
02-06-2005, 04:45 PM
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What everyone also needs to remember is marketing, distribution and
perceived value. Golf ball makers are great at marketing the same product under different names to different markets and very different prices. The very same golf ball you buy at Wally World for $.25 may be sold at a high end golf shop for $2.00 a pop. Same ball, different package and very different marketing techniques. While the Wally world ball may get no marketing, the high end ball may be sponsoring a televised golf tournament. It also has a much nicer package. But the biggest factor is that folks at the high end golf store aren't there to buy 25 cent golf balls and they won't. I'm not defending overpriced resellers (I've seen the same items vary in price by factors of 3 or more), but you are talking very low volumes and a niche market. To market a bag of clay to Koi folks is a much different thing than marketing to cat lovers. Mark B. |
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#40
02-06-2005, 04:59 PM
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"~Roy~" wrote in message ... Yea kitty litter for $3.99.....cheap enough, but the wrong material no matter what the case, why not use just dirt it would serve the same purpose and is even cheaper and probably do just as good. ## They already get a good clay soil from the potted pond plants in the pond. Their colors are vivid now. :-) The soil comes from behind our house at the edge of the woods. There must also be something in kitty litter because they like it. ........ if your so darned intent on using sodium bentonite for koi clay substitute.... then any media would serve.............duh! ## Actually I don't need a clay for them to darken their colors since they are very vivid now. People here *GASP* when someone mentions feeding their koi and GF catfish pellets ($10 per 50 lbs) and yet my fish are thriving on and reproducing like rabbits on them - with excellent color. Why pay 20 times the price for specialty brands? You say "duh" a lot, my teenage granddaughters and their pals do as well..... -- McKoi.... the frugal ponder... EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED. Do not feed the trolls. ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o |
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#41
02-06-2005, 05:35 PM
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"mark Bannister" wrote in message ... I'm not defending overpriced resellers (I've seen the same items vary in price by factors of 3 or more), but you are talking very low volumes and a niche market. To market a bag of clay to Koi folks is a much different thing than marketing to cat lovers. Mark B. =========================== Marketing? The worst case I ever saw was the jeans a "snob" friend of mine bought at the Mall some time ago. She's too good to shop at Wally-World. She feels the shops at the Mall have better "quality" since they're so expensive. She paid $49.99 for a pair of jeans that looked very familiar to me. I checked my stock of jeans and sure enough - I had the same exact pair and paid $16.99 for them. Only the label was different and in a different place. We could find no other difference. The prices of things for ornamental fish hobbyists are obscene........ McKoi.... the frugal ponder... EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED. Do not feed the trolls. ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o |
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#42
03-06-2005, 01:54 AM
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See carol I can waste just as much space as you can witho using just one word instead of a mouthfull of crap......duh! duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duhduh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o |
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#43
03-06-2005, 03:17 AM
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"~Roy~" wrote in message ... See carol I can waste just as much space as you can witho using just one word instead of a mouthfull of crap......duh! ================== Here I thought you were an adult mentioning owning ponds etc, but I see you're really only about 13 or 14 years old - back into the BOZO BIN with you.... PLONK! -- McKoi.... the frugal ponder... EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED. Do not feed the trolls. ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o " |
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#44
03-06-2005, 01:15 PM
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Don't do me no favors..............thats what you get for "thinking"
Thnking is out of your league........ DUH, see there I said it again...DUH DUH DUH On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:17:57 -0500, "Koi4Me" wrote: === ==="~Roy~" wrote in message et... === === See carol I can waste just as much space as you can witho using just === one word instead of a mouthfull of crap......duh! ===================== ===Here I thought you were an adult mentioning owning ponds etc, but I see ===you're really only about 13 or 14 years old - back into the BOZO BIN with ===you.... PLONK! ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! ~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o |
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