"scs0" wrote in message
oups.com...
There is no logical reason the people making pond fish foods should
be
charging $5 a lb and up other than greed.

The purpose of a business is to make as much money as possible by
producing a product people choose to buy. If people chose not to buy
these products they wouldn't be able to charge as much for it. If you
want to blame "greed" on the part of the companies then you ought to
blame the consumers for "sloth" and "ignorance" because we aren't
seeking out cheaper alternatives.

## Sloth no. Ignorance - yes! If people are willing the pay the price of
a diamond for a zirconium then they will laugh all the way to the bank. :-)

It's especially odd to see that you're complaining about corporate
greed when it relates to feeding decorative fish that live in
artificial outdoor ponds. Some might find it "greedly" for you (and
me) to engage in excess like that when place problem here exists in
the world.

## You can't compare apples to window shades. We're talking about obscene
profit at the expense of the gullible. Koi and GF thrive on cheaper diets
than what they're pushing on us.

Unless you're the poorest schmuck on the planet, everyone
can call someone else "greedy" as an easy way of dismissing a situation
they are jealous about or do not understand.

## Huh? What's to understand? The feed Co's producing catfish and other
fish chows are making a profit by selling it at $5 to $6 per 25 lbs. Some
ornamental fish foods sell for $5 and up *per lb.* Many people see that as
obscene profit and use the cheaper foods rather than enrich some greedy Co.

Be careful of the word greed. Greed has got to be the most overused and
misused word in the English language. Yes, I won't deny that it exists
but it's overused generally by the truely greedy to restrict the rights
of others.

## Are we talking politics here or fish food? :-)
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: ""Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Courageous" wrote in message
...

## Sloth no. Ignorance - yes!

Don't forget just plain stupidity. Plenty of people will /prefer/
to buy a thing branded for a specific purpose, even if they find
the same thing for less money, but not branded for that purpose.

Go figure.
=============================
It reminds me of a friend I had a few years ago. She would rather spend $40
to $50 for a pair of jeans at the LaRitz at the Mall than get almost the
same exact pair for $17.99 at Wal-Mart. I bought Halston cologne at K-Mart
for $19.99 but she wouldn't DARE shop at such a place - and paid $29.99 for
the same cologne at a fragrance store..... some people think the more they
spend the better the product. PS,... the $50 jeans don't last any longer
than the $18.00 jeans. :-)

As long as my fish thrive and reproduce on catfish chow at $10 - $12 per 50
lb sack with some kitten and pup chow that's what they'll get.

I did pick up the clay/cat litter this afternoon but am clueless as to how
people are using it to clear the water in their ponds. Any suggestions?
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

artificial outdoor ponds. Some might find it "greedly" for you (and
me) to engage in excess like that when place problem here exists in
the world.

So true. :-( ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

"Reel McKoi" wrote in message
...


## Huh? What's to understand? The feed Co's producing catfish and
other
fish chows are making a profit by selling it at $5 to $6 per 25 lbs.
Some
ornamental fish foods sell for $5 and up *per lb.* Many people see that
as
obscene profit and use the cheaper foods rather than enrich some greedy
Co.

Fish food bought at pet shops generally cost more per pound than a pound of
Sirloin steak at a grocery store (especially marine fish food). This is
especially obcene when you consider that much of the product that goes into
it is by and large the leftovers from animal rendering plants and grain
processing plants with a little bit of choline chloride thrown in for good
measure (a product which the company my brother works for makes in huge
quantities for pennies for animal feed). Having said that, some stores
understand how obcenely expensive these products are. I frequent a garden
pond shop that is located about 5 miles from my home. They sell a generic
food that they buy in bulk and sell for about $1.99 for one pound bags, and
they still make a profit from it. Many farmers supply stores sell pond
fish food to farmers in bulk for far less than that per pound. Those who
say that Koi have special nutritional needs might think about what they are
paying for that little extra amount of nutition, which I have no doubt adds
little value to their food. If you are concerned about what your fish eat,
you can always suppliment their diet with inexpensive natural foods that
are likely to be much better for them in the long fun. I have found that
when I feed my catfish his generic food, the Koi prefer it to their own
food (which is also generic), and will play a game of cat and mouse with
the catfish just for the chance to get a morsel or two of the catfish food.
I have yet to loose a single fish because of their diet.

On Wed, 25 May 2005 08:16:50 -0700, ~ janj JJsPond.us
wrote:

===artificial outdoor ponds. Some might find it "greedly" for you (and
===me) to engage in excess like that when place problem here exists in
===the world.
===
===So true. :-( ~ jan
===
=== ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Yes, especially for the prices the koi clay fetches, as compared to a
100# bag of it locally for under $6.00. Maybe I need to buy a few bags
and peddle it on ebay for a slight fee as well as my excess crop of
frog bit, water clover, duck weed, parrots feather , water snowflake
and sensitive fern..........which almost seems like a weekly chore to
keep under control anymore.

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

On Wed, 25 May 2005 20:48:31 GMT, "George"
wrote:

snip
===Fish food bought at pet shops generally cost more per pound than a pound of
===Sirloin steak at a grocery store (especially marine fish food). This is
===especially obcene when you consider that much of the product that goes into
===it is by and large the leftovers from animal rendering plants and grain
===processing plants with a little bit of choline chloride thrown in for good
===measure (a product which the company my brother works for makes in huge
===quantities for pennies for animal feed). Having said that, some stores
===understand how obcenely expensive these products are. I frequent a garden
===pond shop that is located about 5 miles from my home. They sell a generic
===food that they buy in bulk and sell for about $1.99 for one pound bags, and
===they still make a profit from it. Many farmers supply stores sell pond
===fish food to farmers in bulk for far less than that per pound. Those who
===say that Koi have special nutritional needs might think about what they are
===paying for that little extra amount of nutition, which I have no doubt adds
===little value to their food. If you are concerned about what your fish eat,
===you can always suppliment their diet with inexpensive natural foods that
===are likely to be much better for them in the long fun. I have found that
===when I feed my catfish his generic food, the Koi prefer it to their own
===food (which is also generic), and will play a game of cat and mouse with
===the catfish just for the chance to get a morsel or two of the catfish food.
===I have yet to loose a single fish because of their diet.
===
Been feeding a local prepared POnd Fish food now for years that a
local mill here makes for under $10.00 for 50# sack and my koi, GF and
catfish are all grwoing just fine......I have them in a natural pond
so they are supplementing foods with what they find there, but if it
was for me having to pay for KOI food, I seriously doubt I would pay
the kind of money they ask for it. Kaytee makes a good premium feed,
which is about $18.00 for 10# and is available at Petsmart, which is
not too bad pricewise when you consider what other brands with equal
ingredients cost. Often times they have it on sale and then I pick up
a few bags but mine eat the local feed as readily as koi feed, so its
more just to satisfy my own self they are getting what they
"should-hopefully" be getting in regards to nourishment.


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

George wrote in part:

Those who
say that Koi have special nutritional needs might think about what they are
paying for that little extra amount of nutition, which I have no doubt adds
little value to their food. If you are concerned about what your fish eat,
you can always suppliment their diet with inexpensive natural foods that
are likely to be much better for them in the long fun.

Not in my case, I feed a koi food because it is easier on my filtration.
Less waste coming out. Yes, koi probably get enough from the cheaper foods,
but they usually need to eat more to get it, the rest is feeding the
filter.

Similar to dog foods, feed the cheaper brands and they will state so many
cups/lb of dog. A higher quality brand will show less cups/lb of dog, thus
less dog doo to pick off the lawn, all because they pack more quality into
every cup. Cup by cup, you won't save much. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

## Sloth no. Ignorance - yes!

Don't forget just plain stupidity. Plenty of people will /prefer/
to buy a thing branded for a specific purpose, even if they find
the same thing for less money, but not branded for that purpose.

Go figure.

C//

It reminds me of a friend I had a few years ago. She would rather spend $40
to $50 for a pair of jeans at the LaRitz at the Mall than get almost the
same exact pair for $17.99 at Wal-Mart.

In some parts of the market, you'd practically think it's a conspiracy.

Ever notice how non food items don't have ingredients lists?

Who'd pay for a brand name soap if they knew it was, um, just soap?

There's only about a half dozen industrial cleaning agents used in
cleaning supplies.

And so on...

C//

"~ janj JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
George wrote in part:

Those who
say that Koi have special nutritional needs might think about what they
are
paying for that little extra amount of nutition, which I have no doubt
adds
little value to their food. If you are concerned about what your fish
eat,
you can always suppliment their diet with inexpensive natural foods that
are likely to be much better for them in the long fun.

Not in my case, I feed a koi food because it is easier on my filtration.
Less waste coming out. Yes, koi probably get enough from the cheaper
foods,
but they usually need to eat more to get it, the rest is feeding the
filter.

Similar to dog foods, feed the cheaper brands and they will state so many
cups/lb of dog. A higher quality brand will show less cups/lb of dog,
thus
less dog doo to pick off the lawn, all because they pack more quality
into
every cup. Cup by cup, you won't save much. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

I've been feeding my koi, shubukans, goldfish and channel cat buld foods
for three years with no problems. They are all fat and sassy, and the
filter is fine. I never feed them more than once per day, and never feed
them any more than they would get if I used a premium brand.

Bette E wrote:

Thank you for your advice about purchasing pond products. (Point taken,
see bottom.)

I understand that there are two types of bentonite-- Sodium & Calcium.
Apparently, the sodium type clumps more, where as the calcium type, is a
bit more soluble (perhaps better, for some types of filtration.)
See: http://www.sfbakc.org/koienews/clayvsclay.html

I found this (see below) on the site: (along with info on how it makes
the water crystal clear and destroys algae.)

"Wal-Mart has a brand of kitty litter, apparently only carried by
Wal-Mart since it is their special brand, which is clearly labeled as
Bentonite clay, the preferred kind of clay to add to fish ponds. It's
brand name is 'Special Kitty', in a 25 pound red colored bag
(unscented), costing $5 for the 25 pound bag."



I just purchaed a 25 lb. bag for $1.97 + tax, US. The bag is red, say
"Special Kitty" and the ingredient is 'ground clay'.
Think it is the same thing? It looks like a duch ... "
W. Dale

Thank you for your advice about purchasing pond products. (Point taken,
see bottom.)

I understand that there are two types of bentonite-- Sodium & Calcium.
Apparently, the sodium type clumps more, where as the calcium type, is a
bit more soluble (perhaps better, for some types of filtration.)
See: http://www.sfbakc.org/koienews/clayvsclay.html Bette E

Wow, interesting article and Chris N. is one of the KHA teachers. Sounds
like sodium and calcium are added after the fact?

I just purchaed a 25 lb. bag for $1.97 + tax, US. The bag is red, say
"Special Kitty" and the ingredient is 'ground clay'.
Think it is the same thing? It looks like a duch ... "
W. Dale

Sounds like it. Btw, what color is the clay? ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

~ janj JJsPond.us wrote:

Thank you for your advice about purchasing pond products. (Point taken,
see bottom.)

I understand that there are two types of bentonite-- Sodium & Calcium.
Apparently, the sodium type clumps more, where as the calcium type, is a
bit more soluble (perhaps better, for some types of filtration.)
See: http://www.sfbakc.org/koienews/clayvsclay.html Bette E



Wow, interesting article and Chris N. is one of the KHA teachers. Sounds
like sodium and calcium are added after the fact?



I just purchaed a 25 lb. bag for $1.97 + tax, US. The bag is red, say
"Special Kitty" and the ingredient is 'ground clay'.
Think it is the same thing? It looks like a duch ... "
W. Dale



Sounds like it. Btw, what color is the clay? ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~


It is gray. Is that the same stuff?
W. Dale

"Wilmdale" wrote in message
...
I just purchaed a 25 lb. bag for $1.97 + tax, US. The bag is red, say
"Special Kitty" and the ingredient is 'ground clay'.
Think it is the same thing? It looks like a duch ... "
W. Dale
==================
I bought the same thing and it doesn't clog my filters or glob up. So it
must be the right product. :-)
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
Do not feed the troll trying to pass as *Reel Mckoi*
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Kitty litter is bentonite clay alright, but its sodium
bentonite..............not exactly what you want to put in a pond
unless it is a natural pond and has a seep your trying to stop. Why
would someone want top put a clumping sodium bentonite into a pond
with a filter....... You sound like those clowns on the home brew
foundry forum that goes to all extents to grind up kitty litter to use
a foundry sand. The larger granules is not whats needed like in kittly
kitter nor is sodium bentonite needed..............The word is
Southern Bentonite or CALCIUM Bentonite..............
Either of the bentonites can be anywhere from a plae tan or creme
color to a light grey color with sodium bentonite being more in the
gray tones than calcium, but I have seen it in a large array of
various colors as it depends on how and where at in the layers of it
while it was mined that it was obtained. I use sodium and calcium all
the time in my sideline business and kitty litter at Walmarts price is
high. Any foundry supply can sell you either or or a mix of both in
all kinds of percentages for well under 8 or 10 bucks for a 100 pouond
bag full. a;lready ground to your choice of mesh sizes from stuff as
fine as talcum powder to granulated...........You need to use the
right mesh size........as I would imagine it would be hard to dust koi
feed with kitty litter....duh!




On Mon, 30 May 2005 16:04:57 -0500, "Reel McKoi"
wrote:

===
==="Wilmdale" wrote in message
...
=== I just purchaed a 25 lb. bag for $1.97 + tax, US. The bag is red, say
=== "Special Kitty" and the ingredient is 'ground clay'.
=== Think it is the same thing? It looks like a duch ... "
=== W. Dale
=====================
===I bought the same thing and it doesn't clog my filters or glob up. So it
===must be the right product. :-)


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o