I figure it isn't fair to give it just a year. Also, I think its weird and
cool wrinkly yellow-green leaves will make a nice backdrop for Distant
Drums.

Here is the way the bed is now:

Mutabilis


Heart O' Gold Arizona Hansa Distant Drums


Simply Marvelous Judy Garland Royal Amethyst


Wow are these bare roots beautiful!!! Can't say enough about S&W
Greenhouse. It's a good thing I got them cheap because a bag of Permatil
is $7 and I lined each hole with it. Ever since I began doing this the
voles have not killed a single rose, but they still live in the yard.

Woowoo Shiva! Your garden sounds gorgeous. I'm glad you're waiting another
season on Hansa. My neighbour has it and it looks very beautiful, but it is
kind of petite. I didn't realize voles would eat roses!!!! Eeek! Maybe
that's why 4 of the younger ones out front are looking so bad.
Do you have a picture of Royal Amethyst? Sounds like one I may need.
Thanks,

Jane
"Shiva" wrote in message
news:aHlwYXRpYQ==.0feeaec925fba4558394a28afdd7e382 @1048380324.cotse.net...
I figure it isn't fair to give it just a year. Also, I think its weird and
cool wrinkly yellow-green leaves will make a nice backdrop for Distant
Drums.

Here is the way the bed is now:

Mutabilis


Heart O' Gold Arizona Hansa Distant Drums


Simply Marvelous Judy Garland Royal Amethyst


Wow are these bare roots beautiful!!! Can't say enough about S&W
Greenhouse. It's a good thing I got them cheap because a bag of Permatil
is $7 and I lined each hole with it. Ever since I began doing this the
voles have not killed a single rose, but they still live in the yard.

Jane wrote:

I didn't realize voles would eat roses!!!! Eeek! Maybe
that's why 4 of the younger ones out front are looking so bad.

Jane, I don't know if you have pine voles there, but that is what we have.
they are really field mice adapted for underground life with small eyes
and ears. They like to move into abandoned mole tunnels (they say the
moles only use them once) then adapt them to their uses. Moles eat
insects, while voles eat nothing but young, tender roots. The dead
giveaway that you have them is when you suddenly notice a rose that has
wilted overnight, all the foliage limp, you go to water it, touch it, and
it falls over with no roots. They eat them down until what is left looks
like a gear shift, no kidding. Casualties: Octoberfest, Europeana, a baby
Japanese Maple, a young Dogwood, and my first Reines des Violettes. Look
for holes in the ground, about 3/4 inch in diameter.


Do you have a picture of Royal Amethyst? Sounds like one I may need.
Thanks,

Jane, here is the Helpmefind page:

http://helpmefind.com/sites/rrr/pl.php?n=5523

One you may want to look at is Melody Parfumee. It has a deep plum stage
and is very fragrant. I have that, Barbra Streisand, Outta The Blue, Blue
Nile, Crystalline, and Climbing Joseph's Coat to plant, still. Maybe you
can help me decide where to put them! (I like contrasting colors, mostly!)

Here is the present side bed, X = space for a rose, *** = walkway


X Paul Neyron Abe Darby-(2) Granada Pat Austin Golden Celeb. Penelope X



New Dawn ************************************************** **

X X X


Little Slope w/ Climbing Joseph's coat to
climb up a brick red wooden thing

Thank you very much Shiva. Hence the catchy tune "Three Blind Mice"! huh?
You've educated me again and I really appreciate the information....not to
mention the visual you created for me! I know we have voles here, but the
roses that are looking bad have symptoms of some black canes and they're
firmly attached to their roots in the ground. I can't see any withering
leaves cuz they don't have any yet. I imagine my problem is something else
but i'm still looking around for answers. Any ideas about black canes?
I'd hate to have killed these babies...they were nice.

I love your colours in your bed of lavendery,magentaish ones! If I'm not too
late to make suggestions, about placement. I'm so not computer saavy i'm
going to attempt to reply between the lines as you do so eloquently, so read
on downward please.
"Shiva" wrote in message
news:aHlwYXRpYQ==.1a5eaac1dfd22d39262e564bbcb4b7b4 @1048436700.cotse.net...
Shiva replied
Jane, I don't know if you have pine voles there, but that is what we have.
they are really field mice adapted for underground life with small eyes
and ears. They like to move into abandoned mole tunnels (they say the
moles only use them once) then adapt them to their uses. Moles eat
insects, while voles eat nothing but young, tender roots. The dead
giveaway that you have them is when you suddenly notice a rose that has
wilted overnight, all the foliage limp, you go to water it, touch it, and
it falls over with no roots. They eat them down until what is left looks
like a gear shift, no kidding. Casualties: Octoberfest, Europeana, a baby
Japanese Maple, a young Dogwood, and my first Reines des Violettes. Look
for holes in the ground, about 3/4 inch in diameter.

OH NO! THey've gone mad! They must be stopped. Have you tried any castor oil
in the ground? It seems to work on MOLES and they run away after we spray it
on the earth.
Do you have a picture of Royal Amethyst? Sounds like one I may need.
Thanks,

Jane, here is the Helpmefind page:

http://helpmefind.com/sites/rrr/pl.php?n=5523

Thanks for this link, it's really good.I looked up your new ones there and I
have a few ideas....

One you may want to look at is Melody Parfumee. It has a deep plum stage
and is very fragrant.

I have Melody Parfumee at least I DID last year and I loved it! I hope it
doesn't die.


Woowoo you have some really nice ones.
Barbra Streisand, Outta The Blue, Blue
Nile, Crystalline, and Climbing Joseph's Coat to plant, still. Maybe you
can help me decide where to put them! (I like contrasting colors, mostly!)

Here is the present side bed, X = space for a rose, *** = walkway


X *Paul Neyron Abe Darby-(2) Granada Pat Austin Golden Celeb. Penelope X
(maybe another climbing JC here?) ( *I couldn't find this one)
(Outta the Blue)


New Dawn ************************************************** **

X X X
(Blue Nile) (Crystalline) (Barb S)
That should pop those joseph's coat colours out and
Little Slope w/ Climbing Joseph's coat to
climb up a brick red wooden thing

Your garden sounds great. I have a few opinions about garden design although
I'm certainly no expert. I think the light colours come forward and the
deeper ones receed so when i decide where to plant things I generally space
my lightest ones in the foreground and then lighter ones throughout to make
a visual trail and lead the eye to the end point of the garden. Likewise, I
put progressively darker shades toward the further end if I want the garden
to appear to have depth. Do you have a little bench at the end near New
Dawn? I think the destination point is best if it lets people sit down and
enjoy the fragrances. I'll bet it's just gorgeous at your house!


Thanks for your help,

Jane

Jane wrote:

Any ideas about black canes?
I'd hate to have killed these babies...they were nice.

Bob Bauer (if memory serves me) has posted making a distintion between
regular canker, which presents as a brown, blackish brown, or yellowish
spot on a cane and rots it from that point down, and another very deadly
type that presents as black, starts at the cane tips, and kills the plant
if it gets to the bud union. Bob, please correct me if I am wrong. I
believe the only thing to do for both is to cut it out, wiping your
secaturs with alcohol between cuts, and cutting until you see healthy
white pith. Although it is said that fungicides do not affect canker (esp.
since some appears to be bacterial? Or is it all?? Someone leap in here,
I'm sinking!) some have found a positive correlation between fungal
disease such as mildew and black spot and canker. So, some think that an
effective antifungal routine may help stave off canker. I can tell you
that the worst case of brown canker I ever had was the spring AFTER I did
not spray for an entire season. More on your great suggestions for my new
bed as time allows! Thanks, Jane!

Jane wrote:

I love your colours in your bed of lavendery,magentaish ones! If I'm not
too late to make suggestions, about placement. I'm so not computer
saavy i'm going to attempt to reply between the lines as you do so
eloquently, so read on downward please.

Okay!



I have Melody Parfumee at least I DID last year and I loved it! I hope it
doesn't die.

I hope not too. Our climates are similar enough that I have some questions
for you about this rose. I realize yours is young, but can you tell about
how tall it got by the end of the summer? Also, how long are the stems--
does it make a nicer cut flower than garden flower, do you think?


Woowoo you have some really nice ones.


G At the time, the color combo seemed wild, but now it seems pretty
delicious! Best thing is, all except Joseph's Coat are fragrant. I know
you're another fragrance fan, just like me.



Here is the present side bed, X = space for a rose, *** = walkway


X *Paul Neyron Abe Darby-(2) Granada Pat Austin Golden Celeb.
Penelope X
(maybe another climbing JC here?)

Actually, you are right on track with what i want to put nearby--several
Climbing Rainbow's End, the mini equivalent of Joseph's Coat. It is a
really neat rose--multicolored like JC, but tiny. I have a few on order,
forget when they are going to come.


( *I couldn't find this one)
(Outta the Blue)


This rose has really strange and beautiful colors, from what I understand.
Hard to describe. That was enough for me to want it. In photos it looks
deep purple. I put it on one side of Crystalline, and Melody Parfumee on
the other side.



New Dawn ************************************************** **

X X X
(Blue Nile) (Crystalline) (Barb S)
That should pop those joseph's coat colours out and
Little Slope w/ Climbing Joseph's coat to
climb up a brick red wooden thing

I like this idea! I should have waited to plant them! What I did was put
Barbra Streisand where you said to put Blue Nile, and Blue Nile where you
said to put Barbra! Then at the far left I put Melody Parfumee,
Crystalline, then Outta the Blue. Not far off your plan at all, color
wise.


I think the light colours come forward and the
deeper ones receed so when i decide where to plant things I generally
space my lightest ones in the foreground and then lighter ones
throughout to make a visual trail and lead the eye to the end point of the
garden.

You really do have the eye of a designer. I am spacially challenged. G
And too often once something is out of sight I cannot conjure it into
my "mind's eye." Asit turns out, with the exception of New Dawn, most of
the lighter colored roses are at the front of the bed. I love your idea
for a bench by New Dawn. It is the perfect place. Thank you for the
feedback, Jane. Any new photos yet this year, or is it too early?

Oh No! It sounds like that's the problem! Thank you for all the
information...I was looking in all my books and on the internet and no one
mentions black canes, just black spot...so I was having a hard time figuring
this out. I didn't know anything about canker...I haven't seen any leafing
on these ones, unlike the older ones. They certainly look dead. Do you
think it could be anything like damage from the cold temperatures? What
happens when roses freeze? I'm going out to cut those black canes off and
look for healthy pith. Cross your fingers...I may have some bald spots in my
rose bed this year!
You're very helpful! I really appreciate your input Shiva,
Thanks,
Jane

"Shiva" wrote in message
news:aHlwYXRpYQ==.a2930a13a501a172dbd4c75ad06f643d @1048608291.cotse.net...
Jane wrote:

Any ideas about black canes?
I'd hate to have killed these babies...they were nice.

Bob Bauer (if memory serves me) has posted making a distintion between
regular canker, which presents as a brown, blackish brown, or yellowish
spot on a cane and rots it from that point down, and another very deadly
type that presents as black, starts at the cane tips, and kills the plant
if it gets to the bud union. Bob, please correct me if I am wrong. I
believe the only thing to do for both is to cut it out, wiping your
secaturs with alcohol between cuts, and cutting until you see healthy
white pith. Although it is said that fungicides do not affect canker (esp.
since some appears to be bacterial? Or is it all?? Someone leap in here,
I'm sinking!) some have found a positive correlation between fungal
disease such as mildew and black spot and canker. So, some think that an
effective antifungal routine may help stave off canker. I can tell you
that the worst case of brown canker I ever had was the spring AFTER I did
not spray for an entire season. More on your great suggestions for my new
bed as time allows! Thanks, Jane!

Wow Shiva, sounds like you know exactly what to do.
I hope you can decipher my reply
read down through here.....
"Shiva" wrote in message
news:aHlwYXRpYQ==.58c40c710b8c7f813ea649fde43ba6cb @1048638129.cotse.net...
Shiva asked:

I hope not too. Our climates are similar enough that I have some questions
for you about this rose. I realize yours is young, but can you tell about
how tall it got by the end of the summer? Also, how long are the stems--
does it make a nicer cut flower than garden flower, do you think?


Well, It looked fairly good for it's first year and gave out a few large
very fragrant blooms but the bush was straggly and it's stems had a hard
time holding up the weight of the blooms. The colour was a little less
intense than I expected. I had thought it would be more magenta, less mauve,
but it was pretty.
My bush may have never gotten off the ground so to speak because it didn't
grow very quickly and we had such a terrible drought that we were on a
complete watering ban. Good thing I had rain barrels so at least I was hand
carrying water all season to them, which was not as good as gentling
watering with the soaker hose.
This is one of the few that has this black canes problem...so I may not know
more about it this year.

Woowoo you have some really nice ones.


G At the time, the color combo seemed wild, but now it seems pretty
delicious! Best thing is, all except Joseph's Coat are fragrant. I know
you're another fragrance fan, just like me.

Wild? You? Naaaaaa....it's exciting and energizing! The aromas are really
glorious! I tried to grow climbing Joseph's coat back up in pittsburgh and
the thing took forever to get going. I think it may be better suited to your
climate.



Actually, you are right on track with what i want to put nearby--several
Climbing Rainbow's End, the mini equivalent of Joseph's Coat. It is a
really neat rose--multicolored like JC, but tiny. I have a few on order,
forget when they are going to come.


( *I couldn't find this one)
(Outta the Blue)

Actually I meant I couldn't find Paul Neyron? Is it two roses? The Outta
the Blue is really unusual!

This rose has really strange and beautiful colors, from what I understand.
Hard to describe. That was enough for me to want it. In photos it looks
deep purple. I put it on one side of Crystalline, and Melody Parfumee on
the other side.

Deep purple against the crystalline will be striking!

New Dawn ************************************************** **

X X X
(Blue Nile) (Crystalline) (Barb S)
That should pop those joseph's coat colours out and
Little Slope w/ Climbing Joseph's coat to
climb up a brick red wooden thing

I like this idea! I should have waited to plant them! What I did was put
Barbra Streisand where you said to put Blue Nile, and Blue Nile where you
said to put Barbra! Then at the far left I put Melody Parfumee,
Crystalline, then Outta the Blue. Not far off your plan at all, color
wise.

I think your placement will be just beautiful.

You really do have the eye of a designer. I am spacially challenged. G
And too often once something is out of sight I cannot conjure it into
my "mind's eye." Asit turns out, with the exception of New Dawn, most of
the lighter colored roses are at the front of the bed. I love your idea
for a bench by New Dawn. It is the perfect place.

Yay! I'm glad you like the bench idea. Thanks for the compliment! I have
some vision but little knowledge about these roses so together we'd make a
good team! I'm learning alot from you here! I'm glad to be able to make
suggestions that you find useful.


Thank you for the
feedback, Jane. Any new photos yet this year, or is it too early?

No pictures yet but I'll be in tulips up to my knees soon! I wanted
something to fill up the blank bed behind my summer kitchen while I'm
waiting for some hardscape work to be completed... I planted a them in a
grid pattern of high contrast tall eggplantish coloured ones with slightly
shorter salmony pinkish ones, then later softish peachy ones that are
slightly shorter emerge...I'm excited to see the interplay of heights and
colours. I'll send you a picture if it works! I want to send you a website
about patterning with bulbs.

Have a great day!

Jane

Jane wrote:

Oh No! It sounds like that's the problem! [...] Do you
think it could be anything like damage from the cold temperatures? What
happens when roses freeze?

When I have had cold damage it just dried up and died, kind of brown and
crispy. But we have much milder winters than you do up there most years.

I'm going out to cut those black canes off and look for healthy pith.
Cross your fingers...I may have some bald spots in my
rose bed this year!

I hope not, Jane. Don't be shy about cutting back--I have seen roses
sprout new basals from the bud union. I think you might want to look into
ownroot roses. Once established they can die back to the ground in the
winter and rise in the spring like the Phoenix! I experienced this for the
first time this year with a Harry and David mini that kind of disappeared,
but has now re-emerged as a healthy but tiny new plant. And when all else
fails--remember, $16 for a brand new potted specimen is not bad at all
even if all it does is provide cut flowers for the season! It is all trial
and error.


Let us know how the babies do.