You have some *enormous* roses. How do you deadhead them, and do you prune
them?

Also, where do you live, and what climate, to get such enormous specimens?


Scopata Fuori

In article ,
says...



You have some *enormous* roses.

*hahahha*

How do you deadhead them, and do you prune
them?

Sometimes I deadhead them, most times not. Some roses, not that many, won't
bloom well again if you don't, for instance Bonica. And basically, I just
prune the dead wood or any cane that blocks my path to any painful degree.


Also, where do you live, and what climate, to get such enormous specimens?

I live in Socorro, New Mexico, I believe it's Zone 6, but this zone is just
a sliver between Zones 5 and 7 so it's hard to really put a finger on the
zone. Some of these roses get Rio Grande irrigation, but some, including
Mr. Lincoln, don't. I've just tried to privide them with an easy and regular
water source, throw them horse manure once and year, that's about it.
The sun is good around here most times. Also the humidity is very low, right
now it's in the single digits, so over the years the roses don't have to
suffer repeated fungal bouts or choking chemical torture.

So where you be, Scopata?

m



Scopata Fuori

On 6 Apr 2003 14:51:55 GMT, (lms) wrote:

I've seen some talk about this rose. Lest you ever put any other red gd
rose on a pedestal...
you'd best think again about that pedestal.
I've also heard talk of eating roses, you know, around here? Eat this one.
heheh

http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~mstephen/8x6mrl03.jpg

That is not remotely pretty. You need to learn that bigger is not
always better.

P. S. Bite me, chicken man.


m

http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~mstephen/ros99.htm

On Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:43:45 GMT, in rec.gardens.roses you wrote:

On 6 Apr 2003 14:51:55 GMT, (lms) wrote:

I've seen some talk about this rose. Lest you ever put any other red gd
rose on a pedestal...
you'd best think again about that pedestal.
I've also heard talk of eating roses, you know, around here? Eat this one.
heheh

http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~mstephen/8x6mrl03.jpg

That is not remotely pretty. You need to learn that bigger is not
always better.

P. S. Bite me, chicken man.


m

http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~mstephen/ros99.htm

Speaking of Mr. Lincoln, I was at Lowe's today, picking out a new
hanging pendant for my kitchen to replace the old "granny fixture"
and, what should be by the door but some nice gallon $8.97 roses. And,
lo and behold, one of them was a very nice Mr. Lincoln with two good
sized half-opened buds on it. Because I'm jonesing for some blooms,
I'm going to forgo my own advice and not disbud this plant and just
hope for the best.

Well, that plant is now ensconsed next to my entry porch, very near
Papa Meilland, a transplanted Ingrid Bergman that I hope is going to
take, a pink (I can feel you shiver coldly, Shiva) Belami and a couple
of wildly colored Desert Peaces. It should look nice in mid-season. I
just have to remember that here, Mr. Lincoln is going to need winter
protection as it's a "Zone 7 rose". I know that it grows OK here
though, because I have a friend who has one.

So, I'm looking forward to a fragrant porch, with all of those
fragrant red and pink roses...

On Tue, 08 Apr 2003 13:42:55 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:43:45 GMT, in rec.gardens.roses you wrote:

On 6 Apr 2003 14:51:55 GMT, (lms) wrote:

I've seen some talk about this rose. Lest you ever put any other red gd
rose on a pedestal...
you'd best think again about that pedestal.
I've also heard talk of eating roses, you know, around here? Eat this one.
heheh

http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~mstephen/8x6mrl03.jpg

That is not remotely pretty. You need to learn that bigger is not
always better.

P. S. Bite me, chicken man.


m

http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~mstephen/ros99.htm

Speaking of Mr. Lincoln, I was at Lowe's today, picking out a new
hanging pendant for my kitchen to replace the old "granny fixture"
and, what should be by the door but some nice gallon $8.97 roses. And,
lo and behold, one of them was a very nice Mr. Lincoln with two good
sized half-opened buds on it. Because I'm jonesing for some blooms,
I'm going to forgo my own advice and not disbud this plant and just
hope for the best.


For strongly-scented (citrusy) blooms with long straight stems and
the most perfect long buds ever, this is a great rose. Otherwise it is
fatally flawed. The bush shape sucks, for one thing. Look at CM's
Biggus Diccus New Mexico example again, and you can see it. It is a
giant version of what EVERYBODY'S Mr. L. looks like. Shooting canes
straight to the stars, totally naked knees. This one just has 20-foot
legs. Ugly, ugly ubly. Then there is the fact that the bloom form is
loose and icky, with a sunken center, and it blues so terribly it is
only really true red for about 15 minutes. And, NO, cutting early does
not help. They blue in the house to a sicky purply-magenta. Then there
is the fact that you get enough of these roses together and they get
that faint garbagy smell that all grocery stores used to have. Grow it
if you must--but there are better reds.

On Tue, 08 Apr 2003 20:53:43 GMT, (Shiva) wrote:

On Tue, 08 Apr 2003 13:42:55 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:43:45 GMT, in rec.gardens.roses you wrote:

On 6 Apr 2003 14:51:55 GMT, (lms) wrote:

I've seen some talk about this rose. Lest you ever put any other red gd
rose on a pedestal...
you'd best think again about that pedestal.
I've also heard talk of eating roses, you know, around here? Eat this one.
heheh

http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~mstephen/8x6mrl03.jpg

That is not remotely pretty. You need to learn that bigger is not
always better.

P. S. Bite me, chicken man.


m

http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~mstephen/ros99.htm

Speaking of Mr. Lincoln, I was at Lowe's today, picking out a new
hanging pendant for my kitchen to replace the old "granny fixture"
and, what should be by the door but some nice gallon $8.97 roses. And,
lo and behold, one of them was a very nice Mr. Lincoln with two good
sized half-opened buds on it. Because I'm jonesing for some blooms,
I'm going to forgo my own advice and not disbud this plant and just
hope for the best.


For strongly-scented (citrusy) blooms with long straight stems and
the most perfect long buds ever, this is a great rose. Otherwise it is
fatally flawed. The bush shape sucks, for one thing. Look at CM's
Biggus Diccus New Mexico example again, and you can see it. It is a
giant version of what EVERYBODY'S Mr. L. looks like. Shooting canes
straight to the stars, totally naked knees. This one just has 20-foot
legs. Ugly, ugly ubly. Then there is the fact that the bloom form is
loose and icky, with a sunken center, and it blues so terribly it is
only really true red for about 15 minutes. And, NO, cutting early does
not help. They blue in the house to a sicky purply-magenta. Then there
is the fact that you get enough of these roses together and they get
that faint garbagy smell that all grocery stores used to have. Grow it
if you must--but there are better reds.

It was just an impulse buy and it should fill a little void pretty
nicely...

Your comments are interesting though...I'll keep them in mind as it
gets into the season...

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 08 Apr 2003 20:53:43 GMT, (Shiva) wrote:

On Tue, 08 Apr 2003 13:42:55 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:43:45 GMT, in rec.gardens.roses you wrote:

On 6 Apr 2003 14:51:55 GMT, (lms) wrote:

I've seen some talk about this rose. Lest you ever put any other red gd
rose on a pedestal...
you'd best think again about that pedestal.
I've also heard talk of eating roses, you know, around here? Eat this
one.
heheh

http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~mstephen/8x6mrl03.jpg

That is not remotely pretty. You need to learn that bigger is not
always better.

shock and awe. an army of one. be all you can be.



P. S. Bite me, chicken man.


m

http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~mstephen/ros99.htm

Speaking of Mr. Lincoln, I was at Lowe's today, picking out a new
hanging pendant for my kitchen to replace the old "granny fixture"
and, what should be by the door but some nice gallon $8.97 roses. And,
lo and behold, one of them was a very nice Mr. Lincoln with two good
sized half-opened buds on it. Because I'm jonesing for some blooms,
I'm going to forgo my own advice and not disbud this plant and just
hope for the best.


For strongly-scented (citrusy)

you will definitely not flash on 7-Up or Mountain Dew. It's rose fragrance
with an fff descriptor and few people try to pigeonhole it beyond that.
White Lightnin' is citrus, Soleil d'Or--the leaf-- is citrus.
White Lightnin''s also major wimp material, one of my first 'study' roses, but
that's beyond the point. Its name matches the speed of disappearance of its
canes in winter.


blooms with long straight stems and
the most perfect long buds ever, this is a great rose. Otherwise it is
fatally flawed. The bush shape sucks, for one thing. Look at CM's
Biggus Diccus New Mexico example again, and you can see it. It is a
giant version of what EVERYBODY'S Mr. L. looks like.

so you are right and every single catalog and ten million people are wrong,
are fools. scoff. If you don't like the look of powerful and majestic rose
canes which produce crops worthy of these canes, get a floribunda.
What you see there is actually only about half the breadth of what it was
two years ago when I painfully hacked off the 12-foot sideways extensions in
all possible directions, with 10-foot laterals going straight up, their entire
lengths. I just couldn't get around it any more, the circle just got too
large, took drastic action. Felt better in some ways, not in others. I can
now walk around it with a reasonable expectation of not losing an eye.
however.

and you're very selective about your bigger is not better nonsense, why just
today I saw your reply to one of your admirers who boasts 7 inchers. believe
me, every rose suited for this area and given a good location grows just like
that one. If they're supposed to make big balls, they make big balls.
If they're supposed to make impenetrable thickets, they make impenetrable
thickets. etc. It's that simple. This is rose heaven. No predatory fungi.


Shooting canes
straight to the stars, totally naked knees. This one just has 20-foot
legs. Ugly, ugly ubly. Then there is the fact that the bloom form is
loose and icky, with a sunken center, and it blues so terribly it is
only really true red for about 15 minutes. And, NO, cutting early does
not help. They blue in the house to a sicky purply-magenta. Then there
is the fact that you get enough of these roses together and they get
that faint garbagy smell that all grocery stores used to have. Grow it
if you must--but there are better reds.

there are certainly plenty of cookie-cutter flash in the pan red hybrid teas to
be found but as you go down the comparative checklist, you'll be leaving open
boxes next to pertinent categories for real-world places, and you had better
get them while they're hot cause they'll disappear from the catalogs tomorrow
unless they're called something like Veterans Honor, that is their only hope.
That said, Royal William is just a notch down from Mr. Lincoln and has *all the
qualities a red rose should have, number one being toughness and the
willingness to actually grow.
Oklahoma, btw, has all the growing qualities of Mr. Lincoln, only what it
lacks in height it does sideways. Still have two of these too, and though
their days of True Majesty may be gone, due to my other interests, I just call
them venerable.


It was just an impulse buy and it should fill a little void pretty
nicely...

Your comments are interesting though...I'll keep them in mind as it
gets into the season...

of course you will. let young willy grow or be damned.

m

In article ,
says...

So where you be, Scopata?

m



The Eastern Shore of Maryland, in 7b. We normally get milder winters than
western MD, and if they get snow, we get rain. Many areas have a clay based
soil, which suffers from compaction, but I am lucky, and live in the former
self-proclaimed "Strawberry Capital of the World" which has rich, black
humus in a clayish base. It does get compacted, so a rototiller is handy
before creating a garden space. But it's good, fertile soil with decent
drainage.

The valley here is in a flood zone so the area upon which the house sits
was some kind of fill, including carpenter's fill, that might explain why
a few spots have historically had inexplicable problems. I used to religiously
mix expensive commercial mixes with the native soil but in the past few
years I've planted quite a few in the straight river bottom dirt, it's had
eons before the white man's strict flood control practices to collect all the
good stuff all the way down. The top two to three inches can turn into
concrete but below that it breaks up quite nicely.


Unfortunately, the March weather can do more damage here to my roses than
the rest of the winter does...some fifty to sixty degree days in February,
and there'll be little pink budlets peeking out off the canes. Then a
heartless freeze, and I get dieback. I got through the beginning of March
with only one casualty (a Chrysler Imperial tree rose) then we had that ugly
freeze which looks like it will cost me a couple Full Sails, and a Double
Delight. Those were, I might mention, also in containers, which may have had
something to do with it.

I could count on one hand the times I've seen those spring greens and reds
go all the way to blooming without getting zapped. So far this spring
only the weakest links have lost canes but I can see almost all of them walked
very close to the edge, knocked some of that exuberance right off the plant.
So they got the message, good, now WAIT!


Hopefully I can con more of the lawn from my husband, so they can go in the
ground where they belong.

I've never grown a rose in a pot, too lazy, they'd die for sure. I once
debated keeping one of the only two roses I've deliberately grown from seed
in its pot, but I put it in the ground and whitedog dug it up the first day,
destroyed it. bad decision. on account of that dog I've planted several
hundred big rocks, probably a thousand, to dogproof flower gardens and roses,
and it was probably the best thing I ever did in that that provide all kinds
of shade/moisture savers so things which have no business germinating here,
will. Typically, I'd use three big rocks per rose, it's a great way for
desert roses to save their water and I think it keeps their homeland warmer in
winter. Callie doesn't much bother the roses any more but she's still pretty
wacky.

m


Scopata Fuori

dave weil wrote:

Speaking of Mr. Lincoln, I was at Lowe's today, picking out a new
hanging pendant for my kitchen to replace the old "granny fixture"
and, what should be by the door but some nice gallon $8.97 roses. And,
lo and behold, one of them was a very nice Mr. Lincoln with two good
sized half-opened buds on it. Because I'm jonesing for some blooms,
I'm going to forgo my own advice and not disbud this plant and just
hope for the best.

Well, that plant is now ensconsed next to my entry porch, very near
Papa Meilland, a transplanted Ingrid Bergman that I hope is going to
take, a pink (I can feel you shiver coldly, Shiva) Belami and a couple
of wildly colored Desert Peaces. It should look nice in mid-season. I
just have to remember that here, Mr. Lincoln is going to need winter
protection as it's a "Zone 7 rose". I know that it grows OK here
though, because I have a friend who has one.

Well, my Belami is just a memory, but I'd have to say that Mr. Lincoln
does not necessarily need winter protection. Mine survived last winter
- OK, it died to the bud union. But my MIL (Douglassville, PA, home of
Kiwi shoe polish) is going gang busters without having had any winter
protection. Mr. Lincoln is one teflon rose.