So, you guys know that I picked up a "Mr. Lincoln". However, I have to
wonder if it really *is* Mr. Lincoln.

I thought that Mr. Lincoln was a pure, deep red. However, this very
big, "smelly" g bloom has a lot of purple in it (at least it seems
that way to me).

Tell me what you think:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Mr.Lincoln.jpg

Here's an "arty" pic of the bloom, but of course, you won't be able to
use it for identification:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/ArtyLincoln.jpg

Hi Dave,
My Mr. Lincolns don't look like yours,but it's hard to be sure.
pretty though...
Jane
"dave weil" wrote in message
news
So, you guys know that I picked up a "Mr. Lincoln". However, I have to
wonder if it really *is* Mr. Lincoln.

I thought that Mr. Lincoln was a pure, deep red. However, this very
big, "smelly" g bloom has a lot of purple in it (at least it seems
that way to me).

Tell me what you think:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Mr.Lincoln.jpg

Here's an "arty" pic of the bloom, but of course, you won't be able to
use it for identification:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/ArtyLincoln.jpg

dave weil wrote:
So, you guys know that I picked up a "Mr. Lincoln". However, I have to
wonder if it really *is* Mr. Lincoln.

I thought that Mr. Lincoln was a pure, deep red. However, this very
big, "smelly" g bloom has a lot of purple in it (at least it seems
that way to me).

Tell me what you think:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Mr.Lincoln.jpg

Dave,

I would say with 95% certainty that it does not look like Mister
Lincoln, but resembles Mister Lincoln's seed parent Chrysler Imperial
much more closely (at least the way CI looks out here).

Check out the picture marked as from Robin's Garden in HMF, that is the
ninth one, if you count top to bottom and left to right on HMF:
http://www.helpmefind.com/sites/rrr/pl.php?n=1175

If I am guessing correctly, Robin is Robin Rosenberg, who lives within a
couple of miles of us, and her roses tend to look very similar to what
they look like in our garden. I think that with CI soil conditions and
climate have a lot to do with colour determination.

The only doubt in my mind is petal count. CI has more petals than what I
see in that picture of your rose, but I am not sure if it is not an
illusion on account of your picture showing the more open blossom. So,
how about it - what is the petal count on your reddish purple rose?

--
Radika
California
USDA 9 / Sunset 15

On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:37:34 GMT, "Jane"
wrote:

Hi Dave,
My Mr. Lincolns don't look like yours,but it's hard to be sure.
pretty though...

That's what *I* was thinking...

Of course, it could be similar to a blueing situation (a function of
age of the bloom as it seems to be getting more purple as time goes
on). When I got the plant, the bloom was already fully opened and this
was a week ago. I took the picture two days ago, a day after I clipped
it from the bush).

I'll have to say that it has a pretty intense aroma...

Jane
"dave weil" wrote in message
news
So, you guys know that I picked up a "Mr. Lincoln". However, I have to
wonder if it really *is* Mr. Lincoln.

I thought that Mr. Lincoln was a pure, deep red. However, this very
big, "smelly" g bloom has a lot of purple in it (at least it seems
that way to me).

Tell me what you think:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Mr.Lincoln.jpg

Here's an "arty" pic of the bloom, but of course, you won't be able to
use it for identification:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/ArtyLincoln.jpg

On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 07:44:24 -0700, Radika Kesavan
wrote:

dave weil wrote:
So, you guys know that I picked up a "Mr. Lincoln". However, I have to
wonder if it really *is* Mr. Lincoln.

I thought that Mr. Lincoln was a pure, deep red. However, this very
big, "smelly" g bloom has a lot of purple in it (at least it seems
that way to me).

Tell me what you think:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Mr.Lincoln.jpg

Dave,

I would say with 95% certainty that it does not look like Mister
Lincoln, but resembles Mister Lincoln's seed parent Chrysler Imperial
much more closely (at least the way CI looks out here).

Check out the picture marked as from Robin's Garden in HMF, that is the
ninth one, if you count top to bottom and left to right on HMF:
http://www.helpmefind.com/sites/rrr/pl.php?n=1175

These don't seem to have any purple tinges either.

I wish I could have seen bloom development. It's hard to tell since
this bloom is in such an advanced stage. I have a new bud so I should
be able to follow it in the coming weeks (and it looks like a normal
"dark red" color at this point).

If I am guessing correctly, Robin is Robin Rosenberg, who lives within a
couple of miles of us, and her roses tend to look very similar to what
they look like in our garden. I think that with CI soil conditions and
climate have a lot to do with colour determination.

The only doubt in my mind is petal count. CI has more petals than what I
see in that picture of your rose, but I am not sure if it is not an
illusion on account of your picture showing the more open blossom. So,
how about it - what is the petal count on your reddish purple rose?

It's really hard to say as it's about ready to drop its petals and
they are very loose and floppy. I suppose I can gather them up as they
fall off though g.

My estimate would be somewhere around 30-35.

Hey dave that is dead ringer
for gloire des rosomanes. Esp.
the bowl shaped petals and the golden center.
The light magenta touch is definitely it.

According to JD it is occasionally used as
a root stock. What do you think. Is it a sucker
from a dead graft?

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City

"dave weil" wrote in message
news
So, you guys know that I picked up a "Mr. Lincoln". However, I have to
wonder if it really *is* Mr. Lincoln.

I thought that Mr. Lincoln was a pure, deep red. However, this very
big, "smelly" g bloom has a lot of purple in it (at least it seems
that way to me).

Tell me what you think:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/Mr.Lincoln.jpg

Here's an "arty" pic of the bloom, but of course, you won't be able to
use it for identification:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/ArtyLincoln.jpg

dave weil wrote:
On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 07:44:24 -0700, Radika Kesavan
wrote:

I would say with 95% certainty that it does not look like Mister
Lincoln, but resembles Mister Lincoln's seed parent Chrysler Imperial
much more closely (at least the way CI looks out here).

Check out the picture marked as from Robin's Garden in HMF, that is the
ninth one, if you count top to bottom and left to right on HMF:
http://www.helpmefind.com/sites/rrr/pl.php?n=1175

These don't seem to have any purple tinges either.

Really? They do on my monitor. And they do in my real life ;-).

I wish I could have seen bloom development. It's hard to tell since
this bloom is in such an advanced stage. I have a new bud so I should
be able to follow it in the coming weeks (and it looks like a normal
"dark red" color at this point).

Yes, that fits with CI, would fit also with ML. Only even the blueing
Mister Lincoln is redder than the bloom you show in your picture.

....
The only doubt in my mind is petal count. CI has more petals than what I
see in that picture of your rose, but I am not sure if it is not an
illusion on account of your picture showing the more open blossom. So,
how about it - what is the petal count on your reddish purple rose?

It's really hard to say as it's about ready to drop its petals and
they are very loose and floppy. I suppose I can gather them up as they
fall off though g.

LOL! Would be very accurate if you did.

My estimate would be somewhere around 30-35.

Interesting, that is more than what I was guessing at from the picture.

--
Radika
California
USDA 9 / Sunset 15

dave weil wrote:

So, you guys know that I picked up a "Mr. Lincoln". However, I have to
wonder if it really *is* Mr. Lincoln.

I thought that Mr. Lincoln was a pure, deep red. However, this very
big, "smelly" g bloom has a lot of purple in it (at least it seems
that way to me).


Dave! I TOLD you it is not red--or, more accurately, it is red as a bud
then for about 15 minutes before it turns magenta/purply. This is
called "bluing." Your rose sure looks like it to me--just a shallow bloom
on an immature plant. See that white stripe? This is the telltale sign of
this little incestuous family of roses. Chrysler and others in the family
have the stripe and the "bluing" too. Nice scent, though, isn't it? I
picked up both Chrysler and Ingrid Bergman and put them back yesterday.
Such self control!

On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:57:13 GMT, "Theo Asir"
wrote:

Hey dave that is dead ringer
for gloire des rosomanes. Esp.
the bowl shaped petals and the golden center.
The light magenta touch is definitely it.

No, it's definitely not that. This bloom isn't nearly as "flat". I
think that the advanced age of the bloom is throwing you off...

You're right about the color, although this one is a little more 'red"
than that...

According to JD it is occasionally used as
a root stock. What do you think. Is it a sucker
from a dead graft?

It was definitely a one gallon commercial potted plant from Lowe's (I
don't remember the brand, but it was an $8.99 cheapie).

On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:03:24 -0700, in rec.gardens.roses you wrote:

dave weil wrote:
On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 07:44:24 -0700, Radika Kesavan
wrote:

I would say with 95% certainty that it does not look like Mister
Lincoln, but resembles Mister Lincoln's seed parent Chrysler Imperial
much more closely (at least the way CI looks out here).

Check out the picture marked as from Robin's Garden in HMF, that is the
ninth one, if you count top to bottom and left to right on HMF:
http://www.helpmefind.com/sites/rrr/pl.php?n=1175

These don't seem to have any purple tinges either.

Really? They do on my monitor. And they do in my real life ;-).

Not on my monitor, although the last two shots have a little purple,
the rest of them are definitely just a deep scarlet red on my
monitor...

I wish I could have seen bloom development. It's hard to tell since
this bloom is in such an advanced stage. I have a new bud so I should
be able to follow it in the coming weeks (and it looks like a normal
"dark red" color at this point).

Yes, that fits with CI, would fit also with ML. Only even the blueing
Mister Lincoln is redder than the bloom you show in your picture.

....
The only doubt in my mind is petal count. CI has more petals than what I
see in that picture of your rose, but I am not sure if it is not an
illusion on account of your picture showing the more open blossom. So,
how about it - what is the petal count on your reddish purple rose?

It's really hard to say as it's about ready to drop its petals and
they are very loose and floppy. I suppose I can gather them up as they
fall off though g.

LOL! Would be very accurate if you did.

My estimate would be somewhere around 30-35.

Interesting, that is more than what I was guessing at from the picture.

I tried counting but the petals were just too floppy...I'll probably
just pick them off tomorrow...I still would like to have a day to
enjoy it...

On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 11:24:10 -0400 (EDT), "Shiva"
wrote:

dave weil wrote:

So, you guys know that I picked up a "Mr. Lincoln". However, I have to
wonder if it really *is* Mr. Lincoln.

I thought that Mr. Lincoln was a pure, deep red. However, this very
big, "smelly" g bloom has a lot of purple in it (at least it seems
that way to me).


Dave! I TOLD you it is not red--or, more accurately, it is red as a bud
then for about 15 minutes before it turns magenta/purply. This is
called "bluing."

Sorry - I guess i wasn't paying proper attention. g

Bluing, as I've seen it on Ingrid Bergman, was less of a magneta and
more of a darker bruisey purple. I guess that's why I didn't consider
it bluing in the strictest sense.

Your rose sure looks like it to me--just a shallow bloom
on an immature plant. See that white stripe? This is the telltale sign of
this little incestuous family of roses. Chrysler and others in the family
have the stripe and the "bluing" too. Nice scent, though, isn't it? I
picked up both Chrysler and Ingrid Bergman and put them back yesterday.
Such self control!

Shame on you! You should have gotten Ingrid chuckle. Incidentally, I
prefer IB's (Papa Meilland's as well) scent to this one. This one is
just a little too overblown and "grandmotherly" (no dis on any
grandmothers). It's not musky enough for me and is very floral, which
doesn't appeal as much to me, although, I'll take any scent g.

So, you guys know that I picked up a "Mr. Lincoln". However, I have to
wonder if it really *is* Mr. Lincoln.

I thought that Mr. Lincoln was a pure, deep red. However, this very
big, "smelly" g bloom has a lot of purple in it (at least it seems
that way to me).

Did I read correctly, this flower was already open when you bought the rose?
Could be the rose was not subjected to much sunlight before you brought it
home. I remember Diann Giles telling me thay always picked off the buds before
they shipped roses because after a few days in a box the bloom color wouldn't
always be true. People would judge the plant by the first blooms and think
they had a mislabled plant.
Wait for the next bloom or two before you decide if it's really Mr. L.

On 15 Apr 2003 17:53:45 GMT, (Unique Too) wrote:


So, you guys know that I picked up a "Mr. Lincoln". However, I have to
wonder if it really *is* Mr. Lincoln.

I thought that Mr. Lincoln was a pure, deep red. However, this very
big, "smelly" g bloom has a lot of purple in it (at least it seems
that way to me).

Did I read correctly, this flower was already open when you bought the rose?

Yes.

Could be the rose was not subjected to much sunlight before you brought it
home. I remember Diann Giles telling me thay always picked off the buds before
they shipped roses because after a few days in a box the bloom color wouldn't
always be true. People would judge the plant by the first blooms and think
they had a mislabled plant.

That could be. However, Shiva says that this is typical for Mr.
Lincoln anyway...

Wait for the next bloom or two before you decide if it's really Mr. L.

Yeah, I'll probably do that!

Thanks!

Regarding "Mr. Lincoln's" petal count:

My estimate would be somewhere around 30-35.

Interesting, that is more than what I was guessing at from the picture.

I count 37 petals, although 7 of those are very small petals at the
base of the plant.