Allegra answered:
"Cass" asked
I slammed on the brakes and cut off a bloom of a spectacular climbing
tea growing in the soil around the P G & E meter of a local video
store. The button eye is very distinct.

Is this E. Veyrat Hermanos? If so, I want many:

Hello Cass dear,

Not if the one we have (which I grew before and it has the
same characteristics is the real one) that around this part
of the world is some times called Pillar of Gold (?).

No, that would be to easy, now, wouldn't it? So I put together a more
comprehensive page showing more the feeling of the rose:

http://home.attbi.com/~cassbernstein...s/TamGlow.html

The stems are more reddish-purplish, the foliage is shiny
and dark green, and the color is too pale if compared
with EVH. The color in EVH is buff, almost dark yellow
and the reverse of the petals is pink, and I do mean pink...

...Would the people
who do the landscape for the place know what
they planted there? Somebody may, in Portland EVH can
easily reach between 12 and 14 feet so down there it
may be even taller. But the pink edges are nothing like
our old EVH. I am sure you already checked this out
however here is a poor but accurate shot as far as color and
shape

http://www.country-lane.com/yr/veyrat.htm

notice the leaves and also the fact that the color is truly a
buff yellow ochre pastel peach apricot soft gold with a solid
pink reverse- How is that for an accurate description?

A good description and not the rose I "found." Pictures of EVH are so
few and far between that I had no way of knowing whether it was
accurate or now.

Now, your bloom for some reason I cannot explain because
it is not a tea but a wichurana rambler, it reminds me of a very
young Rene Andre which I also used to grow and I have now in
the east side bed hopefully getting on with the business of
expansion. This is some gorgeous bloom from a very nice
lady in Canada, but she has magic fingers so I will never
expect my Rene to look anything like this, but your bloom
looks a bit like my old RA so, again time, space, sunlight
and so forth...who knows?

http://www.helpmefind.com/sites/rrr/pl.php?n=5188

Buds are different, but see below.

EVH color and fragrance plus the stems are dead giveaways.
Whatever you have there is worth a trip to the place to do
some snooping. Or request with a big smile after renting some
videos permission to take some cuttings. Try asking Alice, she
has a knack to recognize the old ones. I am still an amateur...

Thanks, Allegra. I have some cuttings and will take more. The video
store knows nothing: they describe it as "just a wild rose." But then
it occurred to me that I'd better look at ramblers - because that
button eye is apparent in many Barbier ramblers and because I don't
remember seeing this rose flower at other times of the year. But in my
mind's eye, that is not rambler foliage: it is noisette foliage.

Any pink glow to Gloire de Dijon? Button eye? There are apparently many
very good GdD offspring that are better than the parent. Pictures are,
again, hard to come by.

I'll get Alice's input, I hope.

"Cass" wrote

Thanks, Allegra. I have some cuttings and will take more. The video
store knows nothing: they describe it as "just a wild rose." But then
it occurred to me that I'd better look at ramblers - because that
button eye is apparent in many Barbier ramblers and because I don't
remember seeing this rose flower at other times of the year. But in my
mind's eye, that is not rambler foliage: it is noisette foliage.

Any pink glow to Gloire de Dijon? Button eye? There are apparently many
very good GdD offspring that are better than the parent. Pictures are,
again, hard to come by.

I'll get Alice's input, I hope.

Hello again,

funny because at first sight I thought it could have been either Primavere
or Leontine Gervais with too much sun exposure ;) Gloire de Dijon has
very little if any pink to it that I know from personal experience. It has
the
color of sabayon left to dry in the surface, that opaque dense and yet
somehow translucent yellow that it is not yellow but the soft creamy and
dark color of wet chamois. In full sun turns into one of the Kimberly-
Clark hybrids and blows to kingdom come in the most disagreeable shade.
But given morning sun and afternoon dappled shade it is really a joy of a
rose.

My experience with most Barbiers come from my grandmother's house
in Provence, hence the reference to Primavere that I have never found here.
I have seen what passes or pretends to be Primavere, but it is a Spring of
a different color than the one growing in Provence. Again, soil, cultivation
practices and sun may be more influential factors than what we like to
believe. Leontine Gervais is more like your found beauty. Depending on
how cool the weather is it can appear to have here and there a touch of
pink, but what I really think that happens there is that somehow due to
climate or soil it has somehow picked up a recessive gene from either one
of the once removed parents or grandparents and acquired that tinge
of pink. What is the fragrance? To my nose anyway if not all, the majority
of the Gervais smell of apples. Not the leaves but the fruity scent of an
apple when it hits your nose after you take the first bite.

What fragrance do you detect? It must be a rambler after all, and as far
as wild, well, unless they are in the middle of nowhere, a new construction
has to have been pretty good and sane to protect a rose among the rumbling
of bulldozers and construction equipment, né? So we have to assume that
it was somehow either planted there after the place was constructed or it
was there and the place was built around it. I am sure the guys at the video
place wouldn't have the slightest, but if you have the time and the
inclination
some time a fast look at municipal records (readily available at your county
library or the "hysterical society" where you live, may bring forth some
info
about what existed there before and maybe even some link to some older
member of the community who may know something about it).

One good way is to check both churches and cemeteries around to see if
you find another example. If it turns out to be a sport, likelihood is that
you
are not going to find another like that beauty of yours. And that will
deepen
the mystery, but I will like to know the color of the foliage, prickles, how
many petals, fragrance and of course for the heck of it, rub the leaves and
see what they smell of if anything.

Don't you just love a mystery? She who does....


Allegra

In article tDsma.177768$OV.258773@rwcrnsc54, Allegra
wrote:

"Cass" wrote

Thanks, Allegra. I have some cuttings and will take more. The video
store knows nothing: they describe it as "just a wild rose." But
then it occurred to me that I'd better look at ramblers - because
that button eye is apparent in many Barbier ramblers and because I
don't remember seeing this rose flower at other times of the year.
But in my mind's eye, that is not rambler foliage: it is noisette
foliage.

Any pink glow to Gloire de Dijon? Button eye? There are apparently
many very good GdD offspring that are better than the parent.
Pictures are, again, hard to come by.

I'll get Alice's input, I hope.

Hello again,

funny because at first sight I thought it could have been either
Primavere or Leontine Gervais with too much sun exposure ;) Gloire
de Dijon has very little if any pink to it that I know from personal
experience. It has the color of sabayon left to dry in the surface,
that opaque dense and yet somehow translucent yellow that it is not
yellow but the soft creamy and dark color of wet chamois. In full sun
turns into one of the Kimberly- Clark hybrids and blows to kingdom
come in the most disagreeable shade. But given morning sun and
afternoon dappled shade it is really a joy of a rose.

My experience with most Barbiers come from my grandmother's house in
Provence, hence the reference to Primavere that I have never found
here. I have seen what passes or pretends to be Primavere, but it is
a Spring of a different color than the one growing in Provence.
Again, soil, cultivation practices and sun may be more influential
factors than what we like to believe. Leontine Gervais is more like
your found beauty.

Are the flowers this large? 3 to 3-1/2" ? And the leaves? I only saw it
growing once, I think, and I was surprised at the foliage. But I don't
remember why. Heh heh. You can just feel the mildew about to bust out
on this one, eh?

http://home.attbi.com/~cassbernstein.../PinkTones.jpg

Depending on how cool the weather is it can appear
to have here and there a touch of pink, but what I really think that
happens there is that somehow due to climate or soil it has somehow
picked up a recessive gene from either one of the once removed
parents or grandparents and acquired that tinge of pink. What is the
fragrance? To my nose anyway if not all, the majority of the Gervais
smell of apples. Not the leaves but the fruity scent of an apple when
it hits your nose after you take the first bite.

Definite fragrance. Reminds me of cutex nail polish remover - which I
associate with all noisettes.

What fragrance do you detect? It must be a rambler after all, and as
far as wild, well, unless they are in the middle of nowhere, a new
construction has to have been pretty good and sane to protect a rose
among the rumbling of bulldozers and construction equipment, né? So
we have to assume that it was somehow either planted there after the
place was constructed or it was there and the place was built around
it. I am sure the guys at the video place wouldn't have the
slightest,

I interpreted their comment about "wild rose" to mean once blooming
after I had a moment to reflect on it. I'm going back to ask someone.
There's a drive-thru espresso place right there (the source of the
green umbrella), and the video guy told me the espresso folks "take
care of" the rose. I drove by that video store for the 8 years I
communted to the city, and I don't remember seeing it repeat...but
maybe I wasn't looking.

but if you have the time and the inclination some time a
fast look at municipal records (readily available at your county
library or the "hysterical society" where you live, may bring forth
some info about what existed there before and maybe even some link to
some older member of the community who may know something about it).

Grumble grumble grumble I have a real bee in my bonnet about the County
Recorder's office, so unhelpful, such lousy hours, such sycophants,
such bad attitudes.

One good way is to check both churches and cemeteries around to see
if you find another example. If it turns out to be a sport,
likelihood is that you are not going to find another like that beauty
of yours. And that will deepen the mystery, but I will like to know
the color of the foliage, prickles, how many petals, fragrance and of
course for the heck of it, rub the leaves and see what they smell of
if anything.

Apple green foliage, tender. 3 and 5-leave leaflets, no 7's. Terminal
leaf much larger than the other 4. One or two tiny prickles on the back
of the petiole. Rather small stipules, no fringes on the sides. 80+
petals, counting petaloids. Rather small receptacle, only about 1.5 cm
tall, .75 cm wide. Lots of sulfur yellow in the petals once removed.
Sepals mostly smooth with a single tiny fringe on 2 of the 5.

A new pictu

http://home.attbi.com/~cassbernstein...fletRecept.jpg

Don't you just love a mystery? She who does....

I do...You saw the whole page of pix, I trust:
http://home.attbi.com/~cassbernstein...s/TamGlow.html

Hello Cass,

No, I didn't get to see the full page until tonight
when I got home - From the coast the line was
lousy and downloading anything was like a torture.

I agree about the noisette, the foliage is a good
identifier. Right now I have to unpack and get some
rest but tomorrow perhaps at lunch I will spend some
time with your rose. What is curious is that your rose
reminds me of a rose I know, and I know I know it.
You know when you know how to get to someone's
house but you have no idea what the address is? just
like that. More in the morrow...

Allegra

Allegra wrote:

Hello Cass,

No, I didn't get to see the full page until tonight
when I got home - From the coast the line was
lousy and downloading anything was like a torture.

I revel in excess.

I agree about the noisette, the foliage is a good
identifier. Right now I have to unpack and get some
rest but tomorrow perhaps at lunch I will spend some
time with your rose. What is curious is that your rose
reminds me of a rose I know, and I know I know it.
You know when you know

Take your time. It isn't going anywhere soon, I hope. Could it be
you're trying to remember Desprez á Fleures Jaune?

http://www.country-lane.com/yr/jaune.htm

Some of the description doesn't apply, but other parts do, like the
button eye. Tiny buds applies. Small, long, pointed foliage does not.
Shoot that zig zag at every node, as described by Graham Stuart Thomas,
does apply.

This picture from Cedar Rim Nursery looks right on:

http://www.cedarrim.com/images/Despr...leur_Jaune.jpg

"Cass" questioned:

Are the flowers this large? 3 to 3-1/2" ? And the leaves? I only saw it
growing once, I think, and I was surprised at the foliage. But I don't
remember why. Heh heh. You can just feel the mildew about to bust out
on this one, eh?

http://home.attbi.com/~cassbernstein.../PinkTones.jpg

Depending on how cool the weather is it can appear
to have here and there a touch of pink, but what I really think that
happens there is that somehow due to climate or soil it has somehow
picked up a recessive gene from either one of the once removed
parents or grandparents and acquired that tinge of pink. What is the
fragrance? To my nose anyway if not all, the majority of the Gervais
smell of apples. Not the leaves but the fruity scent of an apple when
it hits your nose after you take the first bite.

Definite fragrance. Reminds me of cutex nail polish remover - which I
associate with all noisettes.

I interpreted their comment about "wild rose" to mean once blooming
after I had a moment to reflect on it. I'm going back to ask someone.
There's a drive-thru espresso place right there (the source of the
green umbrella), and the video guy told me the espresso folks "take
care of" the rose. I drove by that video store for the 8 years I
communted to the city, and I don't remember seeing it repeat...but
maybe I wasn't looking.

and in response to my suggestion to look up municipal records

Grumble grumble grumble I have a real bee in my bonnet about the County
Recorder's office, so unhelpful, such lousy hours, such sycophants,
such bad attitudes.


But Cass dear, what is the matter? Don't you believe the standard political
slogan "rich white men working for you"? What attitudes? I have never
noticed any attitude when sitting ignored for hours waiting for someone who
may stop-and then again may not- speaking on the phone with whomever
while I contemplated my tax dollars at work. Attitude? They didn't give me
even that. That would have been an acknowledgment that a breathing tax payer
was standing there within shouting distance. Nope. Not even that. That is
why the library or the hysterical societies are usually more helpful.
"Usually" is the classifier here.

So you tell me ....
Apple green foliage, tender. 3 and 5-leave leaflets, no 7's. Terminal
leaf much larger than the other 4. One or two tiny prickles on the back
of the petiole. Rather small stipules, no fringes on the sides. 80+
petals, counting petaloids. Rather small receptacle, only about 1.5 cm
tall, .75 cm wide. Lots of sulfur yellow in the petals once removed.
Sepals mostly smooth with a single tiny fringe on 2 of the 5.

A new pictu

http://home.attbi.com/~cassbernstein...fletRecept.jpg

Don't you just love a mystery? She who does....

I do...You saw the whole page of pix, I trust:
http://home.attbi.com/~cassbernstein...s/TamGlow.html

No I did not, because I was writing from the coast and I guess attbi
or whoever the heck was adding dollars by the nanosecond into my
credit card also decided what and what not to download. I did not see
the whole page until now. It has all the makings of Leontine Gervais
and yet....Gloire de Dijon is more buff than yellow, the richness of
the color and the cup are different to my eye. Did you get my email
about the other possibility? After suggesting it I seem to remember that
it only has about 35 to 45 petals max. So that may leave it out.
I am still troubled by the foliage. It is opaque and apple green, is that
so? I need to spend some time with my books and my notes from my
old garden, I may find something useful there.

At any rate, it is a beaut. Don't mind the wait, I just want to know how
it got there, and most importantly, how did it survive the construction of
that place? There is a story there somewhere that may help, but there
is time if nothing else. Check it for mildew the next time you are about.
That may be another clue. If resistant, well...then I am flying down to
get some cuttings myself ;)

Allegra
that with BH is declaring war on the damn fungi that are trying to set
their butts on the roses.

Good evening, Allegra. Thanks for sorting through this with me. I may
have solved the puzzle and will followup tomorrow....but the plant "Tam
Glow" is not old. This I concluded based on the basals: not barky and
wedged into the electrical/gas meter fixtures, ergo, utility meters
predated the rose. In addition, it has the appearance of a budded rose:
there is only one cane growing out of the ground. And, just as
importantly, I saw the same rose growing over a trellis at the local
Smith and Hawken store. S & H was closed, but tomorrow I shall go into
the nursery and examine the label of the rose.....but as I recall, when
I studied all their established roses which started flowering very
early this year, it was a noisette, and I think it was Jaune Desprez.

You know why they have security at courthouses, don't you? It's so
people can't shoot the clerks.

--
Cass

"Cass" suspects...

Good evening, Allegra. Thanks for sorting through this with me. I may
have solved the puzzle and will follow-up tomorrow....but the plant "Tam
Glow" is not old. This I concluded based on the basals: not barky and
wedged into the electrical/gas meter fixtures, ergo, utility meters
predated the rose. In addition, it has the appearance of a budded rose:
there is only one cane growing out of the ground. And, just as
importantly, I saw the same rose growing over a trellis at the local
Smith and Hawken store. S & H was closed, but tomorrow I shall go into
the nursery and examine the label of the rose.....but as I recall, when
I studied all their established roses which started flowering very
early this year, it was a noisette, and I think it was Jaune Desprez.

Good evening my dear,

Sad day today. First I hear about Howard Walters last night and then
this afternoon I got an email from a friend in the UK telling me about
Graham Thomas. I do feel as if I have suddenly lost two old friends,
although I only knew one of them in person, and the other through
his most informative writings. Anyway, I supposed they are conversing
about roses just like you and I, although I am nearly positive neither one
of them would have gone around like we do...

All right, so you think that the rose is Desprez a Fleurs Jaunes? Well
if it is it doesn't even look like my old one from Provence, the petals
look far too "thin", the color is yellow-washed in my monitor, and it
doesn't have the same richness that should have inherited from both
Blush Noisette and Parks' Yellow. I didn't notice the mottled stems
that are like a beauty mark on Jaune Deprez either. Maybe too much
sun does that to them, who is to tell? Mine was deep buff, with a hint
of pink around the center, turning apricot in cooler days. The fragrance
was fruity, just as Léonie Bell described it "a mango blend of orange,
pineapple, and banana found in magnolias and some Hybrid Teas,
but unexpected in an older rose." The foliage was always shiny-green,
leathery and somehow resistant to black spot, but once in a while after
a wet Spring PM will get her. And although the foliage was light green,
it wasn't the apple green of yours. It may be, but there is something
there that just don't fit. I cannot put my finger on it, but then again this
is
a horse of a rose, that can grow without any human help or thereabouts.
Mine went from 0 to 60 in two to three seasons, and climbed oblivious
to anything over a pergola, across a wisteria and into the blue spruce.
In my book anything Mermaid knows she learned from Jaune Deprez.

If it is, your sun and your soil robs her of much of its dark, rich side.
It loves a bit of cold, there is no question about it. In Provence
when the Mistral blows, the roses not up to it die instantly as far as
I can remember my Grandmother saying. "It can freeze your bones
under your overcoat, and it can dry a rose in a day" she used to
say. Her Jaune Deprez were house eating plants...

All right, so much for recognizing the obvious. This is generally the
problem with long distance diagnosis. In my book your fingers and
your nose are the only ones to trust. Over the net instead of Sherlock
Holmes one tends to follow Jacques Clouseau and act like one. And
by the way, when the blooms began to unfurl they always reminded
me of gardenias. Just for that elusive moment, after that, it was a
veritable mess of petals...

You know why they have security at courthouses, don't you? It's so
people can't shoot the clerks.

--
Cass

That explains it.

Allegra