That's the color I'm looking for! Not only the color, but I love the form. No
wonder people wanted it.
HMF doesn't have any photos of this one, you should submit yours. Any rose
this beautiful should be shared. Maybe then others would fall in love and it
would be offered somewhere besides ARE.
Since I'm out of sunny space anyway I'll have to try a dark red in a semi-shady
location. Since both you and Mack agree, full sun must lighten dark roses. I
should have bought that Black Jade I saw the other day.

Cass writes:

My blackest rose is Thor. It is a rich red in summer, but when the
days get short (and the bloom gets really sparce, like in October) it
is really dark and 5 inches across:

http://www.rosefog.us/Roseoftheday/ThorOct02.jpg

People are wild for a really dark rose. I took it to Miriam Wilkin's
Celebration of Old Roses, and three people wanted it bad. One took one
of the two blooms to try to root. Now, with the long days, it is the
darkest cherry red.

www.schroederventures.com
"Bob" wrote in message
news:VHqAa.729991$OV.673132@rwcrnsc54...
I live in western PA. Where can I get black roses and will they grow here.
Or is there a website that I should checkout?

I'm glad you like it. A lot of people think they never want to grow a
once bloomer, but I think they're missing some of the most beautiful
roses: Fortune's Double Yellow, Chevy Chase, Thor, Flora, Long John
Silver. I planted Gem of the Prairies this spring, and I'm fighting off
the urge to buy May Queen (I saw the prickles and go scared). Vintage
sells Thor every one in a while.

Unique Too wrote:

That's the color I'm looking for! Not only the color, but I love the
form. No wonder people wanted it. HMF doesn't have any photos of
this one, you should submit yours. Any rose this beautiful should be
shared. Maybe then others would fall in love and it would be offered
somewhere besides ARE. Since I'm out of sunny space anyway I'll have
to try a dark red in a semi-shady location. Since both you and Mack
agree, full sun must lighten dark roses. I should have bought that
Black Jade I saw the other day.

Cass writes:

My blackest rose is Thor. It is a rich red in summer, but when the
days get short (and the bloom gets really sparce, like in October) it
is really dark and 5 inches across:

http://www.rosefog.us/Roseoftheday/ThorOct02.jpg

People are wild for a really dark rose. I took it to Miriam Wilkin's
Celebration of Old Roses, and three people wanted it bad. One took one
of the two blooms to try to root. Now, with the long days, it is the
darkest cherry red.

I had to replace my black jade this year. Definitely not black, but a dep
dark red. One of my favorites.

"JimS." wrote in message
.net...

"Unique Too" wrote in message
...
(Shiva) writes:

The one I was thinking of is the miniature Black Jade, I looked it up.


Check this out--click on the first photo on the left. It looks really
black!

http://helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=713

I've seen a couple of Black Jades and another of the so called "black"
roses
recently. Neither of them were even remotely black, not even dark red,
more of
a bright red, I was really disappointed in their color. They were
closer
to
the last photo of the set on HMF.
I wonder if these roses become lighter in our sun? Anyone in a strong
sun
climate growing any of the "black" roses?
Julie

It must be the strong sun. In Seattle, the mini Black Jade I saw last
week
was definitlely almost black. Yes, of course, you could tell it was
really
dark, dark, red. But practically black. Must be affected by the strength
of the sun.

JimS.
Seattle

Cass writes:

I'm glad you like it. A lot of people think they never want to grow a
once bloomer, but I think they're missing some of the most beautiful
roses:

You just had to say that, didn't you! It seems my mystery rose is a once
bloomer and I had just this week decided I was going to toss it. It's outgrown
its pot and I'm tired of watering twice a day. Never mind it has the cleanest
foliage of any in the garden, not a single blackspotted leaf. Now.....who
knows...oh well, I've got a spot that's really too shady for a rose anyway,
might as well plunk it there. Then maybe it will blackspot, not bloom and I'll
have a good reason to get rid of it.

In article ,
says...

I'm glad you like it. A lot of people think they never want to grow a
once bloomer, but I think they're missing some of the most beautiful
roses:

The first couple years I was thinking, forget about once blooming roses,
why would someone want once blooming roses? Took me a couple years and
now I think about 70% otherwise. I actually buy something less than that,
was a big zero in the once blooming category this year--I felt the need
for some fresh color out front-- Sunsprite is already lighting it up. Amalia,
which was a burly unit, I'm wanting to see that one.


Fortune's Double Yellow, Chevy Chase, Thor, Flora, Long John
Silver. I planted Gem of the Prairies this spring, and I'm fighting off
the urge to buy May Queen (I saw the prickles and go scared). Vintage
sells Thor every one in a while.

I've never grown any of these but I assure you, it makes my heart soar like
a hawk to hear that Thor lives up to its name--I had wondered.
http://www.rosefog.us/Roseoftheday/ThorOct02.jpg I'm enlightened.
I did see it in the Vintage Catalog back when they used to send it to me. I
did the Vintage thing a couple times, I'm too cheap though. 's like Hawaiian
coffee, which I can't imagine being better than starbuck's french roast but
that's just the hick in me.

I have a lot of fun with old roses, and it's got nothing to do with BIG--
I've got so many little trips going on, hither, thither, and yon. Watching
this one rose--a buddy of mine dug it up in Polvadera, north of here, along
one of the Rio G irrigation ditches, it's still very small, inches its way up
every year, it's up to maybe a foot now, with a few shy canes. Not showing
any signs at all of quitting, but not really going places. Still don't know
what it is. Still don't know what my other Rio G rose is either, btw.
It's a real buster, though. Immense, some kind of Damask hybrid.
Here's one of my faves, actually, been watching this one for three years, it's
Lady Banks. You can't miss it in this pic.

http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~mstephen/ladyb03.jpg
Finally. It looks healthy and is evergreen, I swear. The apple trees nearby
took 10 years to hit their stride, perhaps this is the apple in Lady Banks.

I once went looking for R. stellata mirifica near my aunt's house in High
Rolls, NM, and in 10 minutes found R. arkansana, it was a Thanksgiving and I
really didn't think I had a prayer of finding any roses going down Fresnal
Creek, much less mirifica. (Arkansana is trying to take over the plantation
now.) If anyone interested does a websearch on Fresnal Creek, they will
instantly find--and to my GREAT astonishment just the other day, ThankYou,
Alice for the snail--that Fresnal Creek is preCISEly where you find mirifica
growing wild. This is less than 5 minutes by highway from where I found
arkansana.
Mirifica, meaning 'wonderful', joins the Gincko, Dawn Redwood, and cycads in
that rare group of plants called 'living fossils'. They evolved on
island-like mountains in a sea of desert when the lush Oligocene lowlands dried
up and became deserts. They look like cosmos and are the showiest flowers of
any American wild rose. Smell like hyacinth. Leaves like columbine. July
4 is just around the corner, and I'm all jazzed about the thrill of the hunt.
I was once sent a small root of Mirifica--as well as R. minutifolia, which
has the tiniest leaves of any rose--but this was like October/November and
sadly neither survived.
But I'll be finding Mirifica soon, its seeds are as good as in my pocket.
wink

So yes, I agree-- the world of roses extends WAY beyond those big fat hybrids
which we are all too prone to be satisfied with. As with all things, when
you expand you horizons, that's a good thing, Martha.


Unique Too wrote:

That's the color I'm looking for! Not only the color, but I love the
form. No wonder people wanted it. HMF doesn't have any photos of
this one, you should submit yours. Any rose this beautiful should be
shared. Maybe then others would fall in love and it would be offered
somewhere besides ARE. Since I'm out of sunny space anyway I'll have
to try a dark red in a semi-shady location. Since both you and Mack
agree, full sun must lighten dark roses. I should have bought that
Black Jade I saw the other day.

Bill Hillman used to defend this rose to the nth degree--would always mention
that it still regularly wins queen at shows, or at least makes the table.
I grew it for a couple months a dozen years ago. Was in the first group
of minis I ever planted, learned plenty from it. Like what was going to
be necessary to grow these critters around here. That one didn't live very
long. The sometimes concrete that most big guy roses go way beneath is
right where most minis live, they'll just fry away in a day if you're not
careful.



Cass writes:

My blackest rose is Thor. It is a rich red in summer, but when the
days get short (and the bloom gets really sparce, like in October) it
is really dark and 5 inches across:

http://www.rosefog.us/Roseoftheday/ThorOct02.jpg

People are wild for a really dark rose. I took it to Miriam Wilkin's
Celebration of Old Roses, and three people wanted it bad. One took one
of the two blooms to try to root. Now, with the long days, it is the
darkest cherry red.

What kinda cherry?
hahaha. that's still another subject. You did say 'darkest' though, most
times this descriptor is left out.

m




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http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~mstephen/ladyb03.jpg
Finally. It looks healthy and is evergreen, I swear. The apple trees
nearby
took 10 years to hit their stride, perhaps this is the apple in Lady
Banks.

That a nice crop of.. ..Grass! :-

I once went looking for R. stellata mirifica near my aunt's house in High
Rolls, NM, and in 10 minutes found R. arkansana, it was a Thanksgiving and
I
really didn't think I had a prayer of finding any roses going down Fresnal
Creek, much less mirifica. (Arkansana is trying to take over the
plantation
now.) If anyone interested does a websearch on Fresnal Creek, they will
instantly find--and to my GREAT astonishment just the other day, ThankYou,
Alice for the snail--that Fresnal Creek is preCISEly where you find
mirifica
growing wild. This is less than 5 minutes by highway from where I found
arkansana.
Mirifica, meaning 'wonderful', joins the Gincko, Dawn Redwood, and cycads
in
that rare group of plants called 'living fossils'. They evolved on
island-like mountains in a sea of desert when the lush Oligocene lowlands
dried
up and became deserts. They look like cosmos and are the showiest flowers
of
any American wild rose. Smell like hyacinth. Leaves like columbine.
July
4 is just around the corner, and I'm all jazzed about the thrill of the
hunt.
I was once sent a small root of Mirifica--as well as R. minutifolia, which
has the tiniest leaves of any rose--but this was like October/November and
sadly neither survived.
But I'll be finding Mirifica soon, its seeds are as good as in my pocket.
wink

So yes, I agree-- the world of roses extends WAY beyond those big fat
hybrids
which we are all too prone to be satisfied with. As with all things, when
you expand you horizons, that's a good thing, Martha.

I agree. Don't know if any roses can really
be called living fossils considering the oldest
record only puts them 25-30 million years back.

But in the sense that nobody thought it was there
but it is, sure!

Sure is amazing what you find growing even
in a city suburb. I have spotted the following
growing in various spots in KC. R. Arkansana,
R. Nutkana, R. Setigera, R. Laevigata and
my find of finds R. Ptercantha no less growing
in a church side lot incredibly, doing amazingly
well too. Tried to trace the person who grew it
but the church was closed. Make note to try again.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City

In article m, Theo
Asir wrote:

Sure is amazing what you find growing even
in a city suburb. I have spotted the following
growing in various spots in KC. R. Arkansana,
R. Nutkana, R. Setigera, R. Laevigata and
my find of finds R. Ptercantha no less growing
in a church side lot incredibly, doing amazingly
well too.

So does r. setigera nice looking in person? Or a typical species, not
really that good? The only species rose I really want to grow some day
is r. soulieana.

Sure is amazing what you find growing even
in a city suburb. I have spotted the following
growing in various spots in KC. R. Arkansana,
R. Nutkana, R. Setigera, R. Laevigata and
my find of finds R. Ptercantha no less growing
in a church side lot incredibly, doing amazingly
well too.

So does r. setigera nice looking in person? Or a typical species, not
really that good? The only species rose I really want to grow some day
is r. soulieana.

Setigera tends to sprawl a bit. Also
suckers like crazy. It believes in walking
across the nation.

It gets high 6' +. It very popular for
weekend cottages in the Ozarks 'cos
of its loong bloom cycle May to July
in some cases.

Last month I planted Soulieana, Eglanteria
Glauca, Mulliganii & Brunonii on my friends
farmhouse. She is battling the rabbits right now.

--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City

In article m,
says...




http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~mstephen/ladyb03.jpg
Finally. It looks healthy and is evergreen, I swear. The apple trees
nearby
took 10 years to hit their stride, perhaps this is the apple in Lady
Banks.

That a nice crop of.. ..Grass! :-

that a right, you got.


I once went looking for R. stellata mirifica near my aunt's house in High
Rolls, NM, and in 10 minutes found R. arkansana, it was a Thanksgiving and
I
really didn't think I had a prayer of finding any roses going down Fresnal
Creek, much less mirifica. (Arkansana is trying to take over the
plantation
now.) If anyone interested does a websearch on Fresnal Creek, they will
instantly find--and to my GREAT astonishment just the other day, ThankYou,
Alice for the snail--that Fresnal Creek is preCISEly where you find
mirifica
growing wild. This is less than 5 minutes by highway from where I found
arkansana.
Mirifica, meaning 'wonderful', joins the Gincko, Dawn Redwood, and cycads
in
that rare group of plants called 'living fossils'. They evolved on
island-like mountains in a sea of desert when the lush Oligocene lowlands
dried
up and became deserts. They look like cosmos and are the showiest flowers
of
any American wild rose. Smell like hyacinth. Leaves like columbine.
July
4 is just around the corner, and I'm all jazzed about the thrill of the
hunt.
I was once sent a small root of Mirifica--as well as R. minutifolia, which
has the tiniest leaves of any rose--but this was like October/November and
sadly neither survived.
But I'll be finding Mirifica soon, its seeds are as good as in my pocket.
wink

So yes, I agree-- the world of roses extends WAY beyond those big fat
hybrids
which we are all too prone to be satisfied with. As with all things, when
you expand you horizons, that's a good thing, Martha.

I agree. Don't know if any roses can really
be called living fossils considering the oldest
record only puts them 25-30 million years back.

But in the sense that nobody thought it was there
but it is, sure!

I think I even spelt Oligocene right. try 34 million years. Ever hear
of Florissant, Colorado? T.D.A. Cockerell, a bugman by trade, found "a
variety of fossil rose leaves and most interesting of all, a rosebud,
well preserved with bristles visible on the hip and sepals." He named
this rose Rosa ruskiniana.

"Early in the 1950s, aware of the work Dr. C.C. Hurst was doing in England
on the evolution of roses, Cockerell offered his collection of rose fossils for
study. In an unpublished file note, as E.F. Allen relates in a 1982 British
Rose Annual article, Dr. Hurst 'considered Cockerell's ruskiniana to have
affinities with the modern Rosa stellata. If this is true, then like the
Ginkgo, Dawn Redwood and Cycad, Roisa stellata joins that rare group called
'living fossils'."

Earlier in this article it was stated "Today, they're almost the oldest known
roses in the world." A gentleman named Don Gers wrote this article for
Heritage Roses to give credit where...


Sure is amazing what you find growing even
in a city suburb. I have spotted the following
growing in various spots in KC. R. Arkansana,
R. Nutkana, R. Setigera, R. Laevigata and
my find of finds R. Ptercantha no less growing
in a church side lot incredibly, doing amazingly
well too. Tried to trace the person who grew it
but the church was closed. Make note to try again.

I grow arkansana and nutkana, at least Schoener's Nutkana.
Once spotted R. sericea pteracantha from 30-40 yards in the San Jose Heritage
Rose Garden. It was actually blooming at the time but the blooms are,
howusay, insignificant. When I read that descriptor somewhere later, I thought
it was entirely appropriate, even if R. sericea can have that rarest of rare
number of petals, four.
Was actually, for me, the only rose that was a no-doubter and I had never seen
one before. The thorns are semi-translucent, the plant was just glowing red.
I have a variety of R. xanthina, though, that gives no points in the glowing-
red-thorn department. I marvel at them every time they come up on my
screensaver.



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"lms" wrote in message
...
In article m,
says...




http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~mstephen/ladyb03.jpg
Finally. It looks healthy and is evergreen, I swear. The apple trees
nearby
took 10 years to hit their stride, perhaps this is the apple in Lady
Banks.

That a nice crop of.. ..Grass! :-

that a right, you got.


I once went looking for R. stellata mirifica near my aunt's house in
High
Rolls, NM, and in 10 minutes found R. arkansana, it was a Thanksgiving
and
I
really didn't think I had a prayer of finding any roses going down
Fresnal
Creek, much less mirifica. (Arkansana is trying to take over the
plantation
now.) If anyone interested does a websearch on Fresnal Creek, they
will
instantly find--and to my GREAT astonishment just the other day,
ThankYou,
Alice for the snail--that Fresnal Creek is preCISEly where you find
mirifica
growing wild. This is less than 5 minutes by highway from where I
found
arkansana.
Mirifica, meaning 'wonderful', joins the Gincko, Dawn Redwood, and
cycads
in
that rare group of plants called 'living fossils'. They evolved on
island-like mountains in a sea of desert when the lush Oligocene
lowlands
dried
up and became deserts. They look like cosmos and are the showiest
flowers
of
any American wild rose. Smell like hyacinth. Leaves like columbine.
July
4 is just around the corner, and I'm all jazzed about the thrill of the
hunt.
I was once sent a small root of Mirifica--as well as R. minutifolia,
which
has the tiniest leaves of any rose--but this was like October/November
and
sadly neither survived.
But I'll be finding Mirifica soon, its seeds are as good as in my
pocket.
wink

So yes, I agree-- the world of roses extends WAY beyond those big fat
hybrids
which we are all too prone to be satisfied with. As with all things,
when
you expand you horizons, that's a good thing, Martha.

I agree. Don't know if any roses can really
be called living fossils considering the oldest
record only puts them 25-30 million years back.

But in the sense that nobody thought it was there
but it is, sure!

I think I even spelt Oligocene right. try 34 million years. Ever hear
of Florissant, Colorado? T.D.A. Cockerell, a bugman by trade, found "a
variety of fossil rose leaves and most interesting of all, a rosebud,
well preserved with bristles visible on the hip and sepals." He named
this rose Rosa ruskiniana.

"Early in the 1950s, aware of the work Dr. C.C. Hurst was doing in England
on the evolution of roses, Cockerell offered his collection of rose
fossils for
study. In an unpublished file note, as E.F. Allen relates in a 1982
British
Rose Annual article, Dr. Hurst 'considered Cockerell's ruskiniana to have
affinities with the modern Rosa stellata. If this is true, then like the
Ginkgo, Dawn Redwood and Cycad, Roisa stellata joins that rare group
called
'living fossils'."

Ah! yes. These were known (other than cycads) from fossil records
before somebody actually found the living example.
The desert rose. That thorn covered wonder.
I can see how it survived 34 million years.

Earlier in this article it was stated "Today, they're almost the oldest
known
roses in the world." A gentleman named Don Gers wrote this article for
Heritage Roses to give credit where...


Sure is amazing what you find growing even
in a city suburb. I have spotted the following
growing in various spots in KC. R. Arkansana,
R. Nutkana, R. Setigera, R. Laevigata and
my find of finds R. Ptercantha no less growing
in a church side lot incredibly, doing amazingly
well too. Tried to trace the person who grew it
but the church was closed. Make note to try again.

I grow arkansana and nutkana, at least Schoener's Nutkana.
Once spotted R. sericea pteracantha from 30-40 yards in the San Jose
Heritage
Rose Garden. It was actually blooming at the time but the blooms are,
howusay, insignificant. When I read that descriptor somewhere later, I
thought

Pteracantha blooms insignificant!! Not.
The canes (more like branches)
absolutely cover themselves. What they
lack in size they make up in numbers.

Only reason I ID'd it was 'cos I used to
grow one. Caused me a sea of heartache
trying to keep it happy.

it was entirely appropriate, even if R. sericea can have that rarest of
rare
number of petals, four.
Was actually, for me, the only rose that was a no-doubter and I had never
seen
one before. The thorns are semi-translucent, the plant was just glowing
red.
I have a variety of R. xanthina, though, that gives no points in the
glowing-
red-thorn department. I marvel at them every time they come up on my
screensaver.



--
Theo in Zone 5
Kansas City