I do the basic stuff for my roses--good rich soil, mulch that breaks down
and adds nutrients, a granular three-month food just at new growth plus
three applications of Mill's Magic Mix per year. (I may switch to Osmocote
instead of the generic granular "Rose Food" this year, Cass convinced me.)

Here is the question: can I have more and/or better blooms? My roses do
well, but when I look at photos of others it seems some of mine are scant
and some are small and some are scant and small. I know I can deadhead (I
do and cut losts for the table) amd pinch out side or central buds of gfs
and fbs, and I know some of bloom production is just "built in" to the
rose, genetically, filed under "vigor."

Is there a nutrient I can add that has proven for anyone to give more and
or bigger, better blooms?? I know Mill's Mix causes basal breaks--it is
joyously obvious--but what is sure to make MORE BETTER BLOOMS?! G

I think Bill Hillman said Fish Emulsion, and some of you use the high
phosphorus "bloom boosters," right?

On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:37:58 -0500 (EST), "Shiva"
wrote:


I do the basic stuff for my roses--good rich soil, mulch that breaks down
and adds nutrients, a granular three-month food just at new growth plus
three applications of Mill's Magic Mix per year. (I may switch to Osmocote
instead of the generic granular "Rose Food" this year, Cass convinced me.)

Osmocote has worked for me.

Here is the question: can I have more and/or better blooms? My roses do
well, but when I look at photos of others it seems some of mine are scant
and some are small and some are scant and small. I know I can deadhead (I
do and cut losts for the table) amd pinch out side or central buds of gfs
and fbs, and I know some of bloom production is just "built in" to the
rose, genetically, filed under "vigor."

One thing that I think you should consider is the relative youth of
your plants. When you see other people's photos, you have no way of
knowing how established they are. Also, don't forget that different
environments/soils provide different factors that can affect bloom
size.

Is there a nutrient I can add that has proven for anyone to give more and
or bigger, better blooms?? I know Mill's Mix causes basal breaks--it is
joyously obvious--but what is sure to make MORE BETTER BLOOMS?! G

Maybe you can experiment with "bloom buster"-type fertilizers as an
adjunct. Maybe you could use half of the Osmocote and add some bloom
buster.

I think Bill Hillman said Fish Emulsion, and some of you use the high
phosphorus "bloom boosters," right?

Ooops, great minds think alike g.

I've had decent bloom production for the most part on my young plants
and I haven't had to use bloom busters (and I haven't yet used Mill's,
although I've used epsom salts, alfalfa meal, blood meal, fish
emulsion and Osmocote, as well as a little compost and lots of mulch).
Of course, I have unusually rich and fertile soil to begin with. The
one plant that doesn't bloom as profusely as I've seen in pictures,
Sombrueil, only gets sun for half the day. This makes me suspect that
your sun might be worth evaluating.

In aHlwYXRpYQ==.7d59fe8d289c1ef6f02a8e514052e822@104 4034678.cotse.net
Shiva wrote:
Is there a nutrient I can add that has proven for anyone to give more
and or bigger, better blooms?? I know Mill's Mix causes basal breaks--
it is joyously obvious--but what is sure to make MORE BETTER BLOOMS?!
G

I think Bill Hillman said Fish Emulsion, and some of you use the high
phosphorus "bloom boosters," right?

I've been using fish emulsion this season, Shiva, and the roses do seem
to like it. But I've also been using seaweed fertiliser too. It's a
root stimulant that really seems to work wonders on the blooms
indirectly - thicker stems and longer lasting blooms all round.

Shiva wrote:

I do the basic stuff for my roses--good rich soil, mulch that breaks down
and adds nutrients

Alfalfa, aka, rat food? I think it really does help root growth -
nothing else explains why some of my roses grow so well.

, a granular three-month food just at new growth plus
three applications of Mill's Magic Mix per year. (I may switch to Osmocote
instead of the generic granular "Rose Food" this year, Cass convinced me.)

Is Mill's Magic water soluble so you can foliar feed? That works well
too.

Here is the question: can I have more and/or better blooms? My roses do
well, but when I look at photos of others it seems some of mine are scant
and some are small and some are scant and small. I know I can deadhead (I
do and cut losts for the table) amd pinch out side or central buds of gfs
and fbs, and I know some of bloom production is just "built in" to the
rose, genetically, filed under "vigor."

I think there's a lot of difference between different classes of roses.
If you want lots of blooms all the time, then you really need a few of
those repeaters that everyone raves about like Iceberg. It isn't
scented, it doesn't have great form, etc, etc, but it reblooms every 3
weeks. It doesn't matter if everything blooms constantly - a few will
do as filler. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Is there a nutrient I can add that has proven for anyone to give more and
or bigger, better blooms?? I know Mill's Mix causes basal breaks--it is
joyously obvious--but what is sure to make MORE BETTER BLOOMS?! G

My theory: the only things that give more better blooms are optimal
genetics and optimal plant growth. The blooms are the consequence of
the first two. Optimal is not excessive rank growth from too much
nitrogen.

I think Bill Hillman said Fish Emulsion, and some of you use the high
phosphorus "bloom boosters," right?

I only use Superbloom on one rose that sets lots and lots of buds all
at once and seems to have a lot of trouble opening them all. I'm
talking about Lavender Lassie. It's a pain to apply, so I don't apply
it in general. I use fish emulsion about 3 times a season. I can't
really apply granular after early April because our rains end then.

In Cass wrote:
Alfalfa, aka, rat food? I think it really does help root growth -
nothing else explains why some of my roses grow so well.

I'll second that. This season has been my best ever, and the lucerne is
the biggest change I've made to all the cultivation I give them.

Roses and alfalfa were MADE for each other :-)

dave weil wrote:


Osmocote has worked for me.

I'm definitely using it on the potted roses. You may recall that I had a
fert tragedy with the granulart when my preoccupied Evil Twin used it--a
lot of it--in the pots.


Here is the question: can I have more and/or better blooms?

One thing that I think you should consider is the relative youth of
your plants.

Makes sense. What's odd is that I have had ownroot babies arrive from
Michael's with HUGE buds and blooms--but when they bloom for me later,
they are small.



Of course, I have unusually rich and fertile soil to begin with. The
one plant that doesn't bloom as profusely as I've seen in pictures,
Sombrueil, only gets sun for half the day. This makes me suspect that
your sun might be worth evaluating.


My soil is good--I pretty much replaced rather than amend, and got the
clay out of here. Everybody gets at least six hours of direct sun--some
afternoon, some morning. They get lots and lots of water, which has made a
big difference in the health of the plant and the vigor of the growth of
the green parts--it is true that part of fighting bs is to have a rose so
healthy it renews itself quickly--but the blooms are still small on lots
of them. Maybe it is their age. They are all under 5.

Daniel Hanna wrote:

I've been using fish emulsion this season, Shiva, and the roses do seem
to like it. But I've also been using seaweed fertiliser too. It's a
root stimulant that really seems to work wonders on the blooms
indirectly - thicker stems and longer lasting blooms all round.

Hmmm. Seaweed, eh? Between that and what Hillman used to call "liquid
fish" I can have an olfactory Day at the Beach. That lasts much more than
a day! Have you got a brand of seaweed you like? I have actually never
seen this stuff here.

Cass wrote:

Alfalfa, aka, rat food? I think it really does help root growth -
nothing else explains why some of my roses grow so well.

No doubt!! Mills Mix' main ingredient looks and smells to be alfalfa. The
second looks and smells to be sludge. The label lists both. I think both
are responsible for the great basals--and I hope good roots. I would love
to do as others do and make my OWN recipe with alfalfa, blood meal, etc.,
but don't have the time at the moment, and don't want the mess.


Is Mill's Magic water soluble so you can foliar feed? That works well
too.

Nope, it is all organic and chunky! I stopped using the water soluable
ones because they are such a pain to mix. What kind do you use, if I
change my mind and start up again so's I can foliar feed?




I think there's a lot of difference between different classes of roses.
If you want lots of blooms all the time, then you really need a few of
those repeaters that everyone raves about like Iceberg. [...] That's my
story and I'm sticking to it.

Okay, I buy it! But I do have a batch of Diva HTs coming in two weeks.
*Sigh* Guess I can't have it all, can I?


My theory: the only things that give more better blooms are optimal
genetics and optimal plant growth. The blooms are the consequence of
the first two. Optimal is not excessive rank growth from too much
nitrogen.

If the above is true, and I want to grow just the varieties I want to grow
NOT NECESSARILY based upon vigor--then I just have to keep feeding and
watering them well and wait until they get bigger. Think?

Daniel Hanna wrote:

[...]lucerne [...]
Roses and alfalfa were MADE for each other :-)

I have not forgotten your Lucerne mulch, Daniel! We just have an awful lot
of storm debris to get rid of. The city-contracted chipper-shredder just
left. I and my neighbors will send a truck to get some of the product this
spring. Not the best, but if you had seen the mess after the ice storm--
need to get rid of it somehow. Probably what we are buying now is leftover
from 1997's Hurricane Fran and interim storms.

On Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:51:06 -0500 (EST), "Shiva"
wrote:

dave weil wrote:


Osmocote has worked for me.

I'm definitely using it on the potted roses. You may recall that I had a
fert tragedy with the granulart when my preoccupied Evil Twin used it--a
lot of it--in the pots.

I think it's important to look at the visual picture that they give
you. It's a widely scatered pattern and you don't really need all that
much. Having said that, I can see how the margin of error is far
narrower when talking about potted plants. I'd expect that it's not as
critical in the open garden.

Here is the question: can I have more and/or better blooms?

One thing that I think you should consider is the relative youth of
your plants.

Makes sense. What's odd is that I have had ownroot babies arrive from
Michael's with HUGE buds and blooms--but when they bloom for me later,
they are small.

I would expct something likethat. First of all, they've been growing
in "optimum" and highly controlled conditions. Couple that with
transplant shock and it's likely that they justneed to settle in.
Maybe it's like starting from scratch (sorta).

Of course, I have unusually rich and fertile soil to begin with. The
one plant that doesn't bloom as profusely as I've seen in pictures,
Sombrueil, only gets sun for half the day. This makes me suspect that
your sun might be worth evaluating.


My soil is good--I pretty much replaced rather than amend, and got the
clay out of here. Everybody gets at least six hours of direct sun--some
afternoon, some morning. They get lots and lots of water, which has made a
big difference in the health of the plant and the vigor of the growth of
the green parts--it is true that part of fighting bs is to have a rose so
healthy it renews itself quickly--but the blooms are still small on lots
of them. Maybe it is their age. They are all under 5.

My best roses get more than 6 hours. Even Felicia, which is planted on
the same house side as Sombrueil, gets at least an hour more sun on
its tips, due to the lack of a porch and the arching style of the
plant.

I've always thought that most roses just sort of "get by" with 6
hours, but that they prefer 8 hours or more (with the exception of the
really high, hot midday sun), and some of them even revel in this. If
you can't provide more sun, then you might have to "settle" for
slightly reduced blooming. My best results have been with plants that
get sun all day long, from sunrise to sunset. Aloha is a good example
of this. It's a vigorous bloomer and it gets absolutely *no* shade,
except for very early morning and very late evening. My limbers are
the same way. Since they are mounted on a chain link fence, they get
sun from both sides.

In aHlwYXRpYQ==.9cbdb95edf6f04c2fa63a22b81ebbb8c@104 4114772.cotse.net
Shiva wrote:
Hmmm. Seaweed, eh? Between that and what Hillman used to call "liquid
fish" I can have an olfactory Day at the Beach. That lasts much more
than a day! Have you got a brand of seaweed you like? I have actually
never seen this stuff here.

I'm a big fan of Seasol:

http://www.rezitech.com.au/seasolretailrange.html

It's a liquid product. I've heard of people using actual seaweed as a
mulch but it smells pretty bad and needs to be rinsed of salt before
using. This, however, is perfect.

There's plenty of empiric proof as to the fact that it works. It's used
commercially as well as domestically in Australia. Its action is
hormonal as well as nutritional - seaweed actually has minute quantities
of just about every element there is on the periodic table, including
gold and silver. Who knows what effect those things may have on roses -
all I know is that it works.

In article
aHlwYXRpYQ==.642b43875ec8da2f81030adb7e5054cc@104 4115327.cotse.net,
Shiva wrote:

Cass wrote:

Alfalfa, aka, rat food? I think it really does help root growth -
nothing else explains why some of my roses grow so well.

No doubt!! Mills Mix' main ingredient looks and smells to be alfalfa. The
second looks and smells to be sludge. The label lists both. I think both
are responsible for the great basals--and I hope good roots. I would love
to do as others do and make my OWN recipe with alfalfa, blood meal, etc.,
but don't have the time at the moment, and don't want the mess.

I have no problem using a product some smart somebody devised. I like
to rotate products, tho, and not use just one thing.

Is Mill's Magic water soluble so you can foliar feed? That works well
too.

Nope, it is all organic and chunky! I stopped using the water soluable
ones because they are such a pain to mix. What kind do you use, if I
change my mind and start up again so's I can foliar feed?

Growmore (has minors). Ironite. Liquid Kelp. Fish Emulsion, the
expensive kind (hydrolyzed). You'll see 2 tiers of fish emulsion. The
expensive stuff works better. And the fish oil may have some benefit
smothering fungi, who knows. Smells bad enough. My theory on foliar
feeding is that I have to dilute it, so I should in theory have less
possibility of burn. And I overdilute, always.

My theory: the only things that give more better blooms are optimal
genetics and optimal plant growth. The blooms are the consequence of
the first two. Optimal is not excessive rank growth from too much
nitrogen.

If the above is true, and I want to grow just the varieties I want to grow
NOT NECESSARILY based upon vigor--then I just have to keep feeding and
watering them well and wait until they get bigger. Think?

Yep. I'm sure you could spend a lot of time disbudding and selectively
deadheading so you have very few flowers and those that are there get
really big. That might solve better but not more.

Shiva wrote:

dave weil wrote:

Osmocote has worked for me.

I'm definitely using it on the potted roses. You may recall that I had a
fert tragedy with the granulart when my preoccupied Evil Twin used it--a
lot of it--in the pots.


Here is the question: can I have more and/or better blooms?

One thing that I think you should consider is the relative youth of
your plants.

Makes sense. What's odd is that I have had ownroot babies arrive from
Michael's with HUGE buds and blooms--but when they bloom for me later,
they are small.

Done a soil test? Does North Carolina have the county extension office
cheap soil test thing going? Maybe you have a shortage of phosphorus or
potassium. Replacing your soil with imported soil doesn't mean you got
balanced soil. And even if you have all the macronutrients, a thing as
simple as excessively acid soil can make nutrients unavailable to your
roses. Clay is not all bad. It hold water and nutrients. In the right
proportion, it's a [get out your hanky for Martha] good thing. I always
mix it in with any imported soil because I've heard that roots don't
like to extend into different media.

I know what you mean about nursery roses. They can really push them. I
have a rose that didn't bloom for a whole year after I bought it in
full bloom, and it isn't a rambler, either. Those early months or years
are what some rosarians call "putting on its green."

Of course, I have unusually rich and fertile soil to begin with. The
one plant that doesn't bloom as profusely as I've seen in pictures,
Sombrueil, only gets sun for half the day. This makes me suspect that
your sun might be worth evaluating.



My soil is good--I pretty much replaced rather than amend, and got the
clay out of here. Everybody gets at least six hours of direct sun--some
afternoon, some morning. They get lots and lots of water, which has made a
big difference in the health of the plant and the vigor of the growth of
the green parts--it is true that part of fighting bs is to have a rose so
healthy it renews itself quickly--but the blooms are still small on lots
of them. Maybe it is their age. They are all under 5.

Cass wrote:


I have no problem using a product some smart somebody devised. I like
to rotate products, tho, and not use just one thing.

I've heard this is a good idea. Maybe I'll look into some other "chunky"
rose chow, and alternate.




Growmore (has minors). Ironite. Liquid Kelp. Fish Emulsion, the
expensive kind (hydrolyzed).

Aha! Available to you locally, or do you mailorder? I have never seen it
here. I think those minors are what I have been thinking I am missing out
on.


You'll see 2 tiers of fish emulsion. The
expensive stuff works better. And the fish oil may have some benefit
smothering fungi, who knows. Smells bad enough. My theory on foliar
feeding is that I have to dilute it, so I should in theory have less
possibility of burn. And I overdilute, always.

It all sounds good to me. The neighborhood cats, who already love me due
to the voles etc., will like me even more. The smell will wear off
eventually, anyway. How often do you apply the fish?

In article .com.au,
Daniel Hanna writes
I've been using fish emulsion this season, Shiva, and the roses do seem
to like it. But I've also been using seaweed fertiliser too. It's a
root stimulant that really seems to work wonders on the blooms
indirectly - thicker stems and longer lasting blooms all round.

Yes, seaweed is great - I use it as a foliar feed as well as a root
drench. And the other key fertiliser is sold in England as Vitax Q4,
which is fabulous and far better for bloom than Osmocote.

It's also really important to prune, and to keep plants disease-free for
maximum blooms. I'm SURE you know this....
--
Jane Lumley