On Mon, 9 Dec 2002 18:26:19 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In article , Torsten Brinch
writes
This is part of the same tune. You have convinced me beyond all possible
argument that British farmers were aware of the coming downturn in their
fortunes.

That's amazing, Tim, I haven't been trying to convince you of that.
I find it hard to believe that all British farmers were aware of the
coming downturn.

Hmm.. Well I'm pretty sure that I was and I don't claim to be in the
forefront of UK farming.

Well, on this thread Jim Webster claims that he wasn't aware of it,
just to name one.

The McSharry reforms were in error AIU and quickly adjusted in
subsequent years.

Meaning no comment on McSharry in either way , may I ask which errors
and adjustments you are referring to?

Our collective breath is held pending your suggestions as to how we
should have *fixed* things.

Why?

As part of an international exercise in sharing national
characteristics?

I am asking, why are you holding your collective breath?
(consider, what happened the last time Saxons offered
someone six feet plus of British soil and went out hiding
holding their breath.)

In article , Torsten Brinch
writes
The McSharry reforms were in error AIU and quickly adjusted in
subsequent years.

Meaning no comment on McSharry in either way , may I ask which errors
and adjustments you are referring to?

How did I know I would regret saying this? Someone else may have proper
details, I am merely reporting memories of agricultural magazine comment
of some 7/8 years back.


I am asking, why are you holding your collective breath?
(consider, what happened the last time Saxons offered
someone six feet plus of British soil and went out hiding
holding their breath.)

You should consider this generous. Most churchyards are full and only
dignitaries have a guaranteed place.

I was following up your claimed national ability for *fixing things* and
asking for help.

regards


--
Tim Lamb

On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:15:45 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:
The McSharry reforms were in error AIU and quickly adjusted in
subsequent years.

Meaning no comment on McSharry in either way , may I ask which errors
and adjustments you are referring to?

How did I know I would regret saying this? Someone else may have proper
details, I am merely reporting memories of agricultural magazine comment
of some 7/8 years back.

Meaning no blame, how can you act to avoid that your linguistic
expressions cause you similar regrets in the future?

On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:15:45 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In article , Torsten Brinch
writes
I am asking, why are you holding your collective breath?
(consider, what happened the last time Saxons offered
someone six feet plus of British soil and went out hiding
holding their breath.)

You should consider this generous. Most churchyards are full and only
dignitaries have a guaranteed place.

Perhaps you can tip a few cows in that hole, now you've dug it.
It means nothing to a sailor of the floe.

I was following up your claimed national ability for *fixing things* and
asking for help.

You were not.

Torsten Brinch wrote in message
...
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002 18:26:19 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote
Well, on this thread Jim Webster claims that he wasn't aware of it,
just to name one.

where?
--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

In article , Torsten Brinch
writes

I was following up your claimed national ability for *fixing things* and
asking for help.

You were not.

I may have avoided saying please but the request was genuine. I, and
several lurkers, would be interested in reading and discussing your
suggestions for what UK farmers should have done on realising that the
cereal gravy train was in reverse.

regards


--
Tim Lamb

In article ,
Gordon Couger wrote:

"Hamish Macbeth" wrote in message
...

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
...
Wiht no evidence just another trade barrier for which the EU paying a
fine.

I wonder what happens if the US decides to press the case of GM crops
with
the WTO?


Does the WTO have any mandate for goods banned in an area?

This would suggest that American gun manufacturers could complain that
Britain is curbing their trade by blocking imports.

Ig GM crops are banned from all sources I don't see that WTO has any
authority.

The US postition is there is no differnce in GM crops and anyohter crop. We
don't treat them any differntly after they are approved and there is no
evidence that there is any danger more danger from them than any other food.

It's possible. But....

IMO there has not been and will never be an independent assessment of any
danger. The "interested parties" are too powerful for it to happen. The
major (US) multinationals can and do control the US govt to enhance the
interest of the major companies. One step further along the line, the US
govt is then driving the UK govt to take steps which will enhance the
financial reurns of the multinationals. According to you it is also trying
to drive the bodies which control world trade so that they also act in the
interest of the multinationals.

In that climate, I am very suspicious of any assessments leading to claims
of "no danger". I also have a strong personal aversion to any system which
says "I am bigger than you and I am going to see that I get my way.".
Jane

snip

--

Jane G : : S Devon

On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 18:34:52 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

In article , Torsten Brinch
writes

I was following up your claimed national ability for *fixing things* and
asking for help.

You were not.

I may have avoided saying please but the request was genuine.

Your attitude fails the pattern of genuine request for help. On the
floe, you could have got yourself killed coming on like this.

I was following up your claimed national ability for *fixing things* and
asking for help.

You still were not.

"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
...

Your attitude fails the pattern of genuine request for help. On the
floe, you could have got yourself killed coming on like this.


What is the 'floe'?

M

On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:00:21 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
What is the 'floe'?

Adrift

the fallen sunshade the chirp parting
the flashwindcrackle soon glowing
afterimage those leaves momentary
shadows thrown around an invisible fire
always leaving always here

(poem by Helga Härle)

Gordon Couger wrote in message
...
we have smallholders and I don't think that there is any government
outreach to them. They can get drawn into the net of paperwork and
form
filling but will probably not get much in the way of support
payments.
=====================
There is not much paper work over here. If you go off the program it's
no
big deal. Progams only cover small grains, cotton beans, corn, feed
grains
peants and few more. Fruits, vetgables and such are not under any kind
of
price support. Some cattlmen have nothing to do with govement programs
except the disease programs.

every bovine animal has to have two ear tags, its passport, every
movement off one holding onto another has to be reported. Even Zoos have
to do this.


round here we have a lot of contractors, more small farmers, farmers
sons or similar who have a tractor, slurry tanker, round baler and
wrapper, etc. Some will do mowing, ploughing etc. There are outfits
who
can put a couple of silage teams into the field (self propelled
harvester, three tractors and trailers, a rake, two mowers and a
loading
shovel for the pit) but these are the minority.


Where you aren't big enough to capitalize your equipment contracting
or
partnerships can make it work. The thing is if things get tough people
cut
out contractors first.

in this area, machinery purchases went first and contractors hung on in.
After all, if you are staying in business, your slurry has to be spread,
your silage has to be made, and most farms now haven't the staff to put
together a silage team even if they had the machinery.


--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'


Gordon

Gordon Couger wrote in message
...
I spent the the last part of my life making thing work as well and I
come to
an entirely different conclusion over here. With low interest rates
investments in irrigation systems are quite attractive from the
landlords
and the tenants point of view particularly when you factor in the
benefits
of no till cropping. It can increase my income by a factor of 2 or 3
including payments and decrease the farmers per unit costs about 40%.

I am not just talking either we are spending real money.

There seems a general move to quietly drift capital out of agriculture.
Most farmers are in their late 50s or older, annuities are rubbish at
the moment so pension plans do not look good. Even at low interest rates
money pays better on deposit than it does in agriculture. (remember our
rates are probably higher than yours, but not much)

--
Jim Webster

"The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind"

'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami'

"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:00:21 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
What is the 'floe'?

Adrift

the fallen sunshade the chirp parting
the flashwindcrackle soon glowing
afterimage those leaves momentary
shadows thrown around an invisible fire
always leaving always here

(poem by Helga Härle)


Thank you for that, I am however none the wiser

On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:00:21 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote:
What is the 'floe'?


Scenes From An Ice Floe
by Magnes
Disclaimer: I own nothing. Even my name is a hand-me-down.
Rating: G
Parings: None
Summary: With nothing but time on their hands, Ray and Fraser have a
little talk...
Spoilers: Call of the Wild



"Hey, Fraser?"

"Yes, Ray?"

"Where the hell are we?"

"We're in Canada."

"Where in Canada?"

"The Northwest Territories."

"We're lost, in other words."

"Not precisely, Ray."

"Frase, trust me. If yer not in one of six places in the Northwest
Territories, yer LOST."

"Now that's just silly, Ray."

"It's true."

"There are more than six settlements here."

"Okay. Nine. I just upped the number of non-lost places by fifty
percent. But that doesn't matter, 'cause we're not near any of them
and therefore, WE ARE LOST."

"You have the most convoluted logic, Ray."

"Thanks."

"According to your logic, we've been lost nine out of the eleven weeks
we've been here."

"I'm glad ya agree."

"I'm not agreeing. I'm pointing out that this is the first occurrence
that we have not had absolute control over our direction."

"Speakin' of which, what IS our direction?"

"Due south."

"Not that there's any other way to go, I guess. How long 'til we hit
the Bahamas?"

"We're... not going to the Bahamas. Given our direction, the first
land mass we'll see will be...Canada."

"Frase, I do not want to be hearin' that. I want tropical island
paradise. Let's head for Hawaii, then."

"Even if we did somehow manage to reach the Pacific Ocean, I believe
our craft would melt prior to our reaching the Hawaiian Islands."

"Craft? Did I just hear ya glorify this chunk of ice with a title?"

"Well, it is buoyant and it is conveying us and the dogs-"

"And almost a polar bear."

"Yes, that debacle manifested at a most fortuitous interlude."

"And the translation from Mountie to cop is...?"

"We're lucky the ice broke when it did."

"I knew that. Why couldn't you just say that?"

"I didn't think of it."

"Not enough syllables per word, huh?"

"Well, I did consid-"

"Dief, go bite him. Right now, boy. Make like he's a donut."

"I don't believe Diefenbaker is going to listen to you, Ray."

"I've got as much chance as you. Go on, boy. Right in the leg. Hey! Do
not be licking me, Dief! Stop it! Ugh...frozen wolf drool. Oh, get
off!"

"I believe you asked for that, Ray."

"No, I asked him to bite you for usin' words nobody uses outside of
Jeopardy."

"I was merely using the applicable terminology for the situation as it
presented itself."

"See? There you go again, Mr. Buy-a-vowel!"

"Ray, I can't help my vocabulary. My grandparents were exceedingly
literate-"

"Like yer not? 'Fraser, where are we?' 'Why, we're in Canada, Ray.' No
kiddin', Magellan!"

"You mean literal, Ray. My grandparents were literate. You consider me
literal."

"See? It's genetic!"

"A good vocabulary is acquired, not inherited."

"So what was your dad?"

"A Mountie."

"Ahhh! See? See what I mean?"

"No."

"I'm gonna bite ya myself! Move, wolf!"

"Now, Ray! Control yourself. You'll tip our...craft."

"Ice cube."

"Ice floe."

"I'm never ordering another drink on the rocks as long as I live."

"Yes, you will."

"Seriously. I'm never going to defrost. That permafrost thing you guys
got goin' up here? I'm the poster child. 'How'd you spend your
vacation?' 'Oh, I was on a cruise to the Northwest Areas-"

"Territories."

"-with my butt frozen to my craft but the craft was smarter than me or
my literate Mountie pal because it was migrating south."

"Literal."

"What?"

"Literal Mountie pal."

"My literal Mountie pal that literally drove me off the deep end so
now I'm neurotic about ice meltin' in my Coke."

"Now that IS silly, Ray."

"And sittin' on a chunk of ice with a dozen dogs and a Mountie isn't?"

"Well, silly isn't the word I'd use to describe our present
situation."

"Okay, then. Lost."

"Challenging."

"Hopeless."

"Epic."

"Desperate."

"Exciting."

"Stupid."

"Adventurous."

"Okay, that I'll grant ya. Adventurous sounds good. Not as good as
downright crazy, of course, but it'll do."

"This isn't crazy."

"What is it, then?"

"Alright, it's crazy."

"Toldja."

"Perhaps we should christen our...ship."

"Titanic."

"Hmm...the Argo?"

"Lusitania."

"The Golden Hind."

"Thresher."

"Enterprise."

"Andrea Doria."

"Ray, your choices are singularly grim."

"Just applyin' the terminology reflective of my mood, Fraser."

"We're not going to sink."

"Right. Just turn into copsicles."

"Are you really that cold?"

"How can you be warm?"

"A different metabolism. Here. Wrap the sleeping bag around you.
Better?"

"Yeah."

"Diefenbaker, go on the other side of Ray. Don't give me that look,
you're the one in the fur coat. Move!"

"Sorry, Dief, stole yer seat."

"Oh, Ray, you are that cold! You should have told me sooner!"

"Yeah, well. Chicago suddenly seems pretty temperate compared to here.
Yer not freezing?"

"No."

"I must not have any blood pressure."

"Move closer. The wind's picking up."

"Is that good?"

"Actually, yes. We'll get out of here sooner."

"That's good."

"Ray, look! An aurora!"

"Ah! God, that's gorgeous. I'll never get tired of lookin' at them."

"Nor I."

"Hey, Frase?"

"Yes?"

"Sing for me, will ya?"

"Sing? What would you like to hear?"

"What do you think? How many partnerships come with their own theme
song?"

"Ah, just one more time, I want to sail the Northwest Passage,
To see the cold aurora burning in the north again,
With the stars as my guides,
And the wind for my companion,
I will seek the Hand of Franklin o'er the icy main."

"Where'd that come from?"

"I just made it up. It seemed fitting."

"Is there anything you don't do well?"

"What do you mean?"

"Now you're a poet on top of everything else."

"You're a poet, too, Ray."

"Naa. Words an' me...we don't get along."

"There's more to poetry than the written word. I've seen you dance. If
that isn't poetry, I don't know what is."

"Me?"

"It's riveting. Mesmerizing."

"In English, not Canadian."

"You're poetry in motion, Ray."

"...oh..."

"I'm sorry. Do I embarrass you? My apolo-"

"N-no! No, Frase. I'm not...I just...never...nobody ever...I mean, you
notice things about people they don't even see."

"No one has ever told you how graceful you are?"

"N-no."

"Well, you are. Extremely."

"Oh. Thanks."

"Ray?"

"Yeah?"

"Why do I get the feeling few people have ever complimented you?"

"Most people I've dealt with have been too busy pointin' out my flaws,
startin' with my parents and workin' on down."

"That's unfair."

"You're not like most people."

"Thank you. If they can't offer you a simple, honest compliment, I
don't want to be like them."

"Huh. Frase, I wouldn't trade you for anything in the world."

"Thank you kindly, Ray."

"I know I complain an' everything and I don't know nothin' 'bout this
place, but this is the most fun I've ever had...freezin' my ass off on
an ice burg-"

"Ice floe."

"Ice floe. I honestly can't think of any place I'd rather be right
now."

"I'm glad."

"Yeah, the Arctic is growin' on me, but I'm thinkin' it's more the
company than the locale."

"Ah."

"Dief's really come to mean a lot to me."

"Ray!"

"Ha! Made ya smile!"

"You're incorrigible!"

"And south of the border that means...?"

"You're...bad."

"Bad as in bad or bad as in good?"

"Yes."

"Thanks fer askin' me along. Y'know, I was thinkin' the other night,
what if I'd been stupid and said 'no' to comin' along with you on this
adventure gig? I'd be stuck in Chicago."

"With Chinese take-out."

"Bored."

"Indoor plumbing."

"Lonely."

"Sports channel."

"No good without yer best friend along to watch."

"Diefenbaker, I'm sure, appreciates your sentiments."

"Yeah, but at least you don't shed on the couch."

"I'm glad you're here, too. I don't know if I would have had the
fortitude to make it this far on my own."

"This far north?"

"No. This far period."

"Oh."

"Yes."

"I know I wouldn't have. You're the only person who ever actually took
the time to get to know me and still liked me anyway."

"I can almost say the same, but in all fairness I must include Ray
Vecchio in that category as well."

"Think he ever figured out what happened to the Riv?"

"We'll know if there's a letter bomb waiting for us in Resolute."

"S'long as he leaves the GTO outta this."

"He'll never notice."

"Frase, we blew up his baby, flambéed it, then dumped into the Lake
they call Michigan. Trust me, no matter how well we restored it, he's
gonna notice."

"Well...Ray Vecchio will just have to...deal with it."

"Did I just hear correctly?"

"I believe so."

"Can I quote ya?"

"Yes."

"Hey! Vecchio! Deal with it! Benton said so!"

"Ray, why are you yelling?"

"'Cause I can."

"Alright..."

"You humorin' me?"

"Yes."

"Oh. Okay. Ah! Hey, Frase! Lookit! Blue this time."

"Purple."

"Listen, pal, I may be blind, but I'm not color blind. That aurora is
blue."

"Spoken like a cop. Indigo."

"Blue."

"Fine. To keep the border undefended, it's blue."

"Thank you."

....

"Hey, Frase?"

"Yes, Ray?"

"I think I figured out where we are."

"Lost?"

"Naa. We're not lost."

"Where are we?"

"Right here."

"Hmm...I do believe you're correct. And it's purple."

"Fine. It's purple."

"Thank you."

"No...thank you, Ben."

Xref: 127.0.0.1 uk.business.agricultu103942 sci.agricultu61497

In article , Torsten Brinch
writes
On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:00:21 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
What is the 'floe'?

Adrift

the fallen sunshade the chirp parting
the flashwindcrackle soon glowing
afterimage those leaves momentary
shadows thrown around an invisible fire
always leaving always here

(poem by Helga Härle)

Just as I thought, an oblique Scandinavian escape route. A better
translation might link the word with *flight* or past tense *flown* and
implied *catch me if you can*.

Nice poem though. Is this original or translation?

regards


--
Tim Lamb