Can anyone tell me where to go for effective but inexpensive nematodes and
diatomaceous earth? I understand these would help keep the lawn flea
population (among other pests) down.
Thanks

Not sure if they carry it, but we used to go to GeoGrowers (290 before
William Canon outbound, just past where the freeway portion ends).

They actually moved further down 290 (outgrew their location), out past the
Y on Oak Hill, but the nursery from whom they were renting space, Wyatt's,
is now selling dirt there.

Both groups are nice folk!

GeoGrowers has this stuff called "Double Thunder" - really rich soil,
partially from Turkey droppings, I think. Don't know about it's effect on
fleas, but it sure is good dirt!

GeoGrowers: 892-2722 (may have changed since move)
Wyatt's: 892-5197 - 6302 W Hwy 290, 78735

HTH-



"Judy Devore" wrote in message
.. .
Can anyone tell me where to go for effective but inexpensive nematodes and
diatomaceous earth? I understand these would help keep the lawn flea
population (among other pests) down.
Thanks

"Judy Devore" wrote...
Can anyone tell me where to go for effective but inexpensive nematodes

Dog poop is a good source, though these are parasitic.

M

On 2 May 2003 14:15:34 -0700, (Mark Edwards) wrote:

"Judy Devore" wrote...
Can anyone tell me where to go for effective but inexpensive nematodes

Dog poop is a good source, though these are parasitic.

M

If your dog has parasites, I strongly suggest you get it taken care of since you
too can get the same parasites. If you are kidding, or joking, I'm not
laughing.

On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:42:10 GMT, "Judy Devore"
wrote:

Can anyone tell me where to go for effective but inexpensive nematodes and
diatomaceous earth? I understand these would help keep the lawn flea
population (among other pests) down.
Thanks

Have you tried the Natural Gardener?

On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:42:10 GMT, "Judy Devore"
wrote:

Can anyone tell me where to go for
effective but inexpensive ..........diatomaceous earth?

They sell big bags of diatomaceous earth at pool supply places. It is
pure unlike what you get at nurseries - they put clay in it for some
reason.

I think it is less than 50 cents a pound but you have to get a big bag
of it. It has a long shelf life.

Rusty Mase




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On Sun, 04 May 2003 13:04:47 -0500, Rusty Mase wrote:


They sell big bags of diatomaceous earth at pool supply places. It is
pure unlike what you get at nurseries - they put clay in it for some
reason.

I think it is less than 50 cents a pound but you have to get a big bag
of it. It has a long shelf life.

Rusty Mase

This is NOT the same type of D.E. as the horticultural and food grade D.E. Pool
D.E. is chemically heated and the properties are useless to soils, and certainly
not edible, and nothing to breath in.

I buy D.E. (horticultural/food grade) at Lowes. They have the brand name
"Concern." Never use pool D.E. as you would the proper material.

On Sun, 04 May 2003 23:00:48 GMT, animaux wrote:
On Sun, 04 May 2003 13:04:47 -0500, Rusty Mase wrote:

They sell big bags of diatomaceous earth at pool supply places.

This is NOT the same type of D.E. as the horticultural and food grade D.E.

D.E. is D.E. no matter what you call it. It is a mined mineral from
deposits of diatom frustules that consist only of amorphous silica.
D.E. has a higher melting point than glass, another amorphous silica,
but considerably less than sand, a crystaline silica.

You can add clay to it and call it food grade if you want.

Also, it is not good to breath D.E. dust but it will not hurt you as
would a find sand - a crytaline silica - known to cause silicosis and
possibly lung cancer. If you look at the stuff from the pool supply
in a microscope it just looks like pieces of diatom frustules, nothing
more. I do not think the pool grade stuff has something added to it
to make it more affective as a filter media. It is affective doing
this in its natural condition.

Rusty Mase



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On Sun, 04 May 2003 19:43:25 -0500, Rusty Mase wrote:


D.E. is D.E. no matter what you call it. It is a mined mineral from
deposits of diatom frustules that consist only of amorphous silica.
D.E. has a higher melting point than glass, another amorphous silica,
but considerably less than sand, a crystaline silica.

No, that would not be correct.

http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=21

I don't agree with everything Garrett has to say, but this is a proven fact.
Pool grade D.E. is NOT the same as horticultural/food grade D.E.

Do as you will, but I feel it is important to let people know they should do
their research before putting something which is totally ineffective on their
garden.

On Mon, 05 May 2003 02:39:24 GMT, animaux wrote:
Pool grade D.E. is NOT the same as horticultural/food grade D.E.

I will have to read up on that. I cannot imagine why you would
calcine it unless you were just burning an impurity off from it.
Also, it cannot be more crystaline than regular D.E. as calcining it
would not crystalize it. It is just a mineral - kind of a strange one
perhaps as it is created by living organisms.

The only insecticidal nature to it is abrasiveness and it only works
on insects with hard exoskeletons. Fine sand does not do this as the
particles are round whereas D.E. particles are jagged.

A rose by any other name is still a rose in my book. For the Dirt
Doctor to call it "natural food supplement for pets and livestock" is
really sort of weird. The stuff is inert!

Rusty


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On Mon, 05 May 2003 06:01:36 -0500, Rusty Mase wrote:

On Mon, 05 May 2003 02:39:24 GMT, animaux wrote:
Pool grade D.E. is NOT the same as horticultural/food grade D.E.

I will have to read up on that. I cannot imagine why you would
calcine it unless you were just burning an impurity off from it.
Also, it cannot be more crystaline than regular D.E. as calcining it
would not crystalize it. It is just a mineral - kind of a strange one
perhaps as it is created by living organisms.

The only insecticidal nature to it is abrasiveness and it only works
on insects with hard exoskeletons. Fine sand does not do this as the
particles are round whereas D.E. particles are jagged.

A rose by any other name is still a rose in my book. For the Dirt
Doctor to call it "natural food supplement for pets and livestock" is
really sort of weird. The stuff is inert!

Rusty

It's got minerals and the physical properties of the product helps with internal
parasites. I have no idea how it doesn't hurt earthworms in the soil, but it
doesn't. Maybe because its only effective when dry? Not sure. There are many
large volumes written about diatoms.

I don't know why anyone would calcine it, either.

On Mon, 05 May 2003 18:53:15 GMT, animaux wrote:

I don't know why anyone would calcine it, either.

Me neither, but some of it is "flux calcined". I spent some time
looking for standards and became completely lost. But the main
property that makes it an insecticide is abrasiveness and apparently a
desiccant to boot. Maybe it abrades the exoskeleton and then
desiccates the insect. But, I found a reference that it gets slugs,
duh! How do you abrade a slug? Worms spend their life eating dirt,
so I can see why they are immune to abrasion.

I have become an inventor in my advanced years and have been working
on grinding up waste glass bottles (recycling you know). I get quite
a bit of real fine glass dust. I have been using it like D.E. and I
do not know if it works or not. But, so far my dog has not died and
he has no fleas.

But glass is a very unstable silicate so it corrodes and goes away,
D.E. is pretty stable so stays around a long time (in your lungs if
you breath it), and quartz sand stays around forever and the
government has standards for breathing that.

Interesting question, Victoria, and I do not know the answer, and
besides, you need to get on with getting ready for the film crews.

Rusty Mase





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In article , Rusty Mase
wrote:

On Mon, 05 May 2003 18:53:15 GMT, animaux wrote:

I don't know why anyone would calcine it, either.


Interesting question, Victoria, and I do not know the answer, and
besides, you need to get on with getting ready for the film crews.

Rusty Mase




Field Roebuck says it is calcined to get rid of impurities
(http://froebuck.home.texas.net/toppage7.htm). It is then sintered to
fuse the diatomaceous particles to generate particles of more uniform size
suitable for filtration.

The very important distinction however is that in its natural form DE is
amorphous silica, but when heated can form several crystaline forms. The
crystaline forms are definitely dangerous.

As you suggest the danger of silicosis cancer etc. has been documented for
workers in the DE industry. E.g. in a study by Park et al. and published
in Occup Environ Med 2002 Jan;59(1):36-43, "Exposure to crystalline
silica, silicosis, and lung disease other than cancer in diatomaceous
earth industry workers: a quantitative risk assessment." The authors
conclude: "The excess lifetime risk for silicosis at the current PEL was
75/1000. CONCLUSION: Current occupational health standards for crystalline
silica permit risks of lung disease other than cancer far in excess of
what is usually considered acceptable by the Occupational Safety and
Health Administration (a lifetime risk of less than one in a thousand
deaths)." Please note the current PEL (permissible exposure limit is .05
milligram crystabolite per cubic meter). The same authors had earlier
concluded an increased cancer risk of magnitude.

In terms of material that is commercially available I do not know how much
of the material is amorphous (presumed safe) and how much is crystaline
(demonstrably dangerous) in the forms that are sold & I do not necessarily
want to find out.


Roland

On Mon, 05 May 2003 20:06:32 -0500, (Joe Doe)
wrote:

Field Roebuck says it is calcined to get rid of impurities
(http://froebuck.home.texas.net/toppage7.htm). It is then sintered to
fuse the diatomaceous particles to generate particles of more uniform size
suitable for filtration.

Totally amazing. I have a nice optical microscope and it looks like
the same stuff when you just look at it. But if you heat up amorphous
silica it does vitrify (crystalize) somewhat - but this topic gets so
complicated that I am no where smart enough to figure it out.

Did you know there are hundreds of forms of mineral (and sort of
mineral) silica. Beyond me folks. I used to think it was all just
sand.

Rusty Mase


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On Mon, 05 May 2003 16:45:46 -0500, Rusty Mase wrote:


Interesting question, Victoria, and I do not know the answer, and
besides, you need to get on with getting ready for the film crews.

Rusty Mase

Today the smoke from the Mexican fires is already thick. I think my lungs
(since we're talking about lungs!) do not appreciate this smoke. I moved from
NY to Texas and never had an allergy. Now I believe I'm allergic to mold. My
throat gets a frog in it when the mold is high.

I suppose the fires do keep that hot sun from penetrating me, so I will get some
garden work done today. There are enough vignettes (sp?) for them to film
without me being embarrassed on television!

As for the D.E., well, I know it abrades exoskeleton and renders the insect to
exposure and that's how they die. They literally die of exposure because the
D.E. poses a chink in their armor.

The bottom line is, I don't use any pesticides, synthetic, natural, barrier or
mechanical. Since I operate like that, the garden has struck a balance and like
a new fish tank has cycled! All I do is keep everything healthy. That's my key
to success. When plants don't do well for two seasons, I leave them and they
become host plants for food which will feed and attract beneficial insects,
spiders, lizards and so on.

respectfully,
Victoria