We moved into a new house in March; and I bought my lawn implements in
what, in retrospect, was the wrong order. Should have gotten a rake
and let the grass grow long; instead, my overwhelming leaf pile from
the gigantic oaks seems to have smothered all the grass.

So I'm trying to plan again for next year. Everything seems to be dead
now (not even brown stuff above-ground anymore). But I'm having a hard
time figuring out what the old grass was, for several reasons:

1. When we bought the place, everything was insanely green and long in
the back (the trees weren't blocking the sun out). I first assumed
this was just ryegrass that the previous owner threw down.

2. My next-door neighbor, however, still has living grass in his
backyard (even with the 90% shade conditions that I share); and it
looks kind of like my grass used to look like when I had some.

It was my impression that rye couldn't take the heat; so I assume my
neighbor's must be buffalo (it's not one of the bunchier grasses like
bermuda or st. aug). But if it was buffalo, maybe mine was too? On the
other hand, I thought buffalo couldn't grow well in the shade; but his
grass is doing at least mediocre in conditions in which I would figure
it would not get enough sun.

Yes, I could just ask him; but also I'd like to learn more about what
would work in this environment. Basically gets mostly sun in the
winter; and hardly any sun from late spring to early fall. Typical
90-year-old central Austin property.

Any suggestions on a grass I could drop in in the fall (if something
would work then) would be greatly appreciated.

---
Mike Dahmus
m dah mus @ at @ io.com

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:26:03 -0500, Mike Dahmus
wrote:


Any suggestions on a grass I could drop in in the fall (if something
would work then) would be greatly appreciated.

St. Augustine. Wait till next season to plant.

Since the Texans scored their last touchdown, animaux saw fit to opine:

I didn't finish reading your whole post, but the only hot weather turf
we have
for shade is St. Augustine. Rye, perennial or annual, or fescue, tall
or
otherwise will melt off in summer at the temperatures rise. The best
way to green things up under trees is to either use the very time
consuming turf in the form of sod, or look into native ground covers
which will do well in shade.

We used tall fescue, had to seed it about 3 years running, but once it
got thick enough it quit burning off in the heat.

Only in the shaded areas, though - Bermuda (yek) and St. Augustine
elsewhere.

--
All Chat no Cattle

Rye won't "melt off" if it's in the shade.


"animaux" wrote in message
...
I didn't finish reading your whole post, but the only hot weather turf we
have
for shade is St. Augustine. Rye, perennial or annual, or fescue, tall or
otherwise will melt off in summer at the temperatures rise. The best way
to
green things up under trees is to either use the very time consuming turf
in the
form of sod, or look into native ground covers which will do well in
shade.


On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:26:03 -0500, Mike Dahmus

wrote:

We moved into a new house in March; and I bought my lawn implements in
what, in retrospect, was the wrong order. Should have gotten a rake
and let the grass grow long; instead, my overwhelming leaf pile from
the gigantic oaks seems to have smothered all the grass.

So I'm trying to plan again for next year. Everything seems to be dead
now (not even brown stuff above-ground anymore). But I'm having a hard
time figuring out what the old grass was, for several reasons:

1. When we bought the place, everything was insanely green and long in
the back (the trees weren't blocking the sun out). I first assumed
this was just ryegrass that the previous owner threw down.

2. My next-door neighbor, however, still has living grass in his
backyard (even with the 90% shade conditions that I share); and it
looks kind of like my grass used to look like when I had some.

It was my impression that rye couldn't take the heat; so I assume my
neighbor's must be buffalo (it's not one of the bunchier grasses like
bermuda or st. aug). But if it was buffalo, maybe mine was too? On the
other hand, I thought buffalo couldn't grow well in the shade; but his
grass is doing at least mediocre in conditions in which I would figure
it would not get enough sun.

Yes, I could just ask him; but also I'd like to learn more about what
would work in this environment. Basically gets mostly sun in the
winter; and hardly any sun from late spring to early fall. Typical
90-year-old central Austin property.

Any suggestions on a grass I could drop in in the fall (if something
would work then) would be greatly appreciated.

---
Mike Dahmus
m dah mus @ at @ io.com

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:00:02 GMT, animaux
wrote:

I didn't finish reading your whole post, but the only hot weather turf we have
for shade is St. Augustine.

But my neighbor has something which looks like buffalo (or possibly
leftover rye) - my initial assumption is that his lived and mine died
because I failed to rake the 6-inch leaffall when I first moved in;
but it could be that he has a different grass that just looks similar.
(Couldn't ask this weekend; he was out of town).

Is it possible that the near-constant summer shade lowers the
temperature enough to allow another grass to at least survive the
summer?

---
Mike Dahmus
m dah mus @ at @ io.com

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:12:19 -0500, Mike Dahmus
wrote:

But my neighbor has something which looks like buffalo (or possibly
leftover rye) - my initial assumption is that his lived and mine died
because I failed to rake the 6-inch leaffall when I first moved in;
but it could be that he has a different grass that just looks similar.
(Couldn't ask this weekend; he was out of town).

Is it possible that the near-constant summer shade lowers the
temperature enough to allow another grass to at least survive the
summer?

---
Mike Dahmus
m dah mus @ at @ io.com

Well, not really. There is a grass seed in the fescue varieties which has some
heat tolerance. Buffalo has NO shade tolerance. I've seen some people planting
mondo or dwarf monkey grass in deep or light shade and it can also be mown, but
it is coarse, unlike the fine leaf you are looking for.

Do a search around on www.google.com and see if you can locate the drought and
heat tolerant fescue they've developed. Take a look also at Texas Agriculture
and Mining website. They have a very good take on turf in Texas.

Good luck,
Victoria

the "Texas Agriculture and Mining" website - do you mean Texas A&M
University? If so, the "A" stands for "Agricultural" (not "Agriculture") and
the "M" stands for "Mechanical" (not "Mining"). The site is www.tamu.edu.

-alternate
(TAMU '75, '78)


"animaux" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:12:19 -0500, Mike Dahmus

wrote:

But my neighbor has something which looks like buffalo (or possibly
leftover rye) - my initial assumption is that his lived and mine died
because I failed to rake the 6-inch leaffall when I first moved in;
but it could be that he has a different grass that just looks similar.
(Couldn't ask this weekend; he was out of town).

Is it possible that the near-constant summer shade lowers the
temperature enough to allow another grass to at least survive the
summer?

---
Mike Dahmus
m dah mus @ at @ io.com

Well, not really. There is a grass seed in the fescue varieties which has
some
heat tolerance. Buffalo has NO shade tolerance. I've seen some people
planting
mondo or dwarf monkey grass in deep or light shade and it can also be
mown, but
it is coarse, unlike the fine leaf you are looking for.

Do a search around on www.google.com and see if you can locate the drought
and
heat tolerant fescue they've developed. Take a look also at Texas
Agriculture
and Mining website. They have a very good take on turf in Texas.

Good luck,
Victoria

A&M is also an excellent school, and has been rated by Texas Monthly
magazine as the "best value in higher education in Texas."

"animaux" wrote in message
...
I was mocking them. But they do know what they are talking about
regarding
turf.


On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:28:18 GMT, "Alternate Personality"
wrote:

the "Texas Agriculture and Mining" website - do you mean Texas A&M
University? If so, the "A" stands for "Agricultural" (not "Agriculture")
and
the "M" stands for "Mechanical" (not "Mining"). The site is www.tamu.edu.

-alternate
(TAMU '75, '78)


"animaux" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:12:19 -0500, Mike Dahmus

wrote:

But my neighbor has something which looks like buffalo (or possibly
leftover rye) - my initial assumption is that his lived and mine died
because I failed to rake the 6-inch leaffall when I first moved in;
but it could be that he has a different grass that just looks similar.
(Couldn't ask this weekend; he was out of town).

Is it possible that the near-constant summer shade lowers the
temperature enough to allow another grass to at least survive the
summer?

---
Mike Dahmus
m dah mus @ at @ io.com

Well, not really. There is a grass seed in the fescue varieties which
has
some
heat tolerance. Buffalo has NO shade tolerance. I've seen some people
planting
mondo or dwarf monkey grass in deep or light shade and it can also be
mown, but
it is coarse, unlike the fine leaf you are looking for.

Do a search around on www.google.com and see if you can locate the
drought
and
heat tolerant fescue they've developed. Take a look also at Texas
Agriculture
and Mining website. They have a very good take on turf in Texas.

Good luck,
Victoria

As I said, Texas Monthly rated A&M as the "best value in higher education in
*Texas*," i.e., a better value than UT, Tech, SMU, TCU, Rice, etc. This was
a couple of years ago; I'm sure you could call the magazine for the exact
reference, and review the article for yourself. Texas Monthly is
headquartered in Austin.

I was a National Merit Scholar, and when I was an undergrad there
(1971-1975), A&M had the largest number of National Merit Scholars in Texas
(though not the largest undergraduate enrollment). You might also want to
check proportions of medical school admissions relative to other schools in
Texas... and of course, if you have pets, your vet almost certainly went to
A&M. Plus, if you want to see a really awesome collection of greenhouses,
A&M is definitely the place. I was there a few weeks ago for a friend's
wedding (she married a full professor of landscape architecture) and I spent
a couple of hours before I came back just driving around the campus and
lusting after their greenhouses.

I was in the engineering school, myself, but in retrospect and in light of
my avocational interests, I really wish I had availed myself more of A&M's
outstanding resources in the biological sciences. You have a lot of
knowledge about plants, Victoria, and I respect that, but please do some
homework before you disparage Texas A&M again. I can make some allowances
because you're from New York (where I lived when working for IBM Research),
but really, I wish you would save the "Mining" crap for some other audience.

- alternate


"animaux" wrote in message
...
A Texas magazine rated a Texas university as having best value in higher
education? It's not on any national lists I know of.


On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:33:23 GMT, "Alternate Personality"
wrote:

A&M is also an excellent school, and has been rated by Texas Monthly
magazine as the "best value in higher education in Texas."

"animaux" wrote in message
.. .
I was mocking them. But they do know what they are talking about
regarding
turf.


On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:28:18 GMT, "Alternate Personality"
wrote:

the "Texas Agriculture and Mining" website - do you mean Texas A&M
University? If so, the "A" stands for "Agricultural" (not
"Agriculture")
and
the "M" stands for "Mechanical" (not "Mining"). The site is
www.tamu.edu.

-alternate
(TAMU '75, '78)


"animaux" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:12:19 -0500, Mike Dahmus

wrote:

But my neighbor has something which looks like buffalo (or possibly
leftover rye) - my initial assumption is that his lived and mine
died
because I failed to rake the 6-inch leaffall when I first moved in;
but it could be that he has a different grass that just looks
similar.
(Couldn't ask this weekend; he was out of town).

Is it possible that the near-constant summer shade lowers the
temperature enough to allow another grass to at least survive the
summer?

---
Mike Dahmus
m dah mus @ at @ io.com

Well, not really. There is a grass seed in the fescue varieties
which
has
some
heat tolerance. Buffalo has NO shade tolerance. I've seen some
people
planting
mondo or dwarf monkey grass in deep or light shade and it can also
be
mown, but
it is coarse, unlike the fine leaf you are looking for.

Do a search around on www.google.com and see if you can locate the
drought
and
heat tolerant fescue they've developed. Take a look also at Texas
Agriculture
and Mining website. They have a very good take on turf in Texas.

Good luck,
Victoria

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:55:07 GMT, Elliot Richmond
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:33:23 GMT, "Alternate Personality"
wrote:

A&M is also an excellent school, and has been rated by Texas Monthly
magazine as the "best value in higher education in Texas."

Yeah. That's why we used to call it "Harvard on the Brazos."

Seriously, it is in every sense of the word a major university with
enrollment and national standing comparable to UT. Many of the
departments, schools, and programs are world class, and not just in
agriculture. We will forgive the maroon carrots.

But not the maroon or Barbara Bush bluebonnets. Other than a few
such abominations A&M's science offerings deserve high regard.

Nearer to home... UT's grad and undergrad programs in botany rank #2
and #3 in the nation respectively (Gourman Report 1997). Always vying
with UC Davis and Cornell, over the years I've seen them as high as
#1, never lower than #3.

The UT herbarium is the 5th largest academic collection in the US
(1,100,000 specimens. A&M claims 50,000).

The Culture Collection of Algae is the largest in the world (these
simple plants are the most critically important organisms for life on
earth life as we know it).

In A&M's Fall 2003 textbook list I find 5 authors from UT Botany:
Mauseth, Simpson, Delevoryas, Alexopoulos, Bold. And Marshall
Johnston's "Manual of the Vascular Plants of Texas" is still the
definitive reference for Texas plants in classrooms and libraries all
over the world.

The UT Life Science Library... anyone with a Texas public library card
can get a "Texshare" card and borrow books from the LSL's 200,000
volumes. Built during the 1930's, done in marble and ornately carved
wood, it's the most beautiful space I've ever seen on the UT campus.
Make sure you ride the stacks elevator. Look here..
http://www.utexas.edu/tours/mainbuil...ry/index.html.

--
Terry
UT '91, Rice '95

In regards to this snippet

The UT Life Science Library... anyone with a Texas public library card
can get a "Texshare" card and borrow books from the LSL's 200,000
volumes. Built during the 1930's, done in marble and ornately carved
wood, it's the most beautiful space I've ever seen on the UT campus.
Make sure you ride the stacks elevator. Look here..
http://www.utexas.edu/tours/mainbuil...ry/index.html.

That was a fun site to see, take a close look at the 'stacks'
photos. I used to take my daughter there when she was little to dig up
stuff we couldn't find at the main library. The 'stacks' were a
little claustraphobic and used to give her the willies. I always liked
the dusty cramped quality because it kept you focused on the reading
material, unlike the big expanses of glass at the undergraduate
library where everyone sits and stares out the windows.
For folks interested on how architecture influences behaviour, my
favorite 'worst space' nomination on the UT campus would be the RLM
building , on the street formely known as 26th. ( math, astronomy etc
). It was designed to have little seating in the halls or lobby to
steer students towards the library. Instead at any given time, you can
see students squeezed under the escalators trying to finish their
homework or sprawled out in the halls like folks waiting out an air
raid drill.
Also on the UT campus, check out the dearth of North facing Main
entrances to the buildings.
Steve Coyle
www.austingardencenter.com

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:56:23 GMT, (Terry
Horton) wrote:


The UT Life Science Library... anyone with a Texas public library card
can get a "Texshare" card and borrow books from the LSL's 200,000
volumes. Built during the 1930's, done in marble and ornately carved
wood, it's the most beautiful space I've ever seen on the UT campus.
Make sure you ride the stacks elevator. Look here..

I love the Life Science Library. It looks more like what I think a
library should look like than any other place on campus. Beautiful
hardwood tables with real library lamps. The stacks have these tiny
little study carrels tucked away in obscure corners. Perfect places to
while away a hot summer afternoon or a dreary wet day in January.

There is bound to be a gardening book in there somewhere!

Elliot Richmond
Freelance Science Writer and Editor

"Elliot Richmond" wrote in message
...
| On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:56:23 GMT, (Terry
| Horton) wrote:
|
|
| The UT Life Science Library... anyone with a Texas public library
card
| can get a "Texshare" card and borrow books from the LSL's 200,000
| volumes. Built during the 1930's, done in marble and ornately
carved
| wood, it's the most beautiful space I've ever seen on the UT
campus.
| Make sure you ride the stacks elevator. Look here..
|
| I love the Life Science Library. It looks more like what I think a
| library should look like than any other place on campus. Beautiful
| hardwood tables with real library lamps. The stacks have these tiny
| little study carrels tucked away in obscure corners. Perfect places
to
| while away a hot summer afternoon or a dreary wet day in January.
|
| There is bound to be a gardening book in there somewhere!
|
| Elliot Richmond
| Freelance Science Writer and Editor

There's a beautiful architecture library -- BattleHall -- also
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/apl/battle.html