Am in the process of replacing some of my tools and wanted to buy decent
ones this time. I'm confused about teh kinds of head. What is the difference
between carbon steel and stainless steel (other than colour - am I correct
in thinking that carbon steel is grey whilst stainless is shiny?). Can both
be sharpened easily? I'm about to buy a Dutch hoe so want something that I
can sharpen. Has anyone any experience of the S&J heritage range? I'm
looking at that one at the moment as I have one of their border forks and
really like using it but more for the look and feel of the handle than the
make of the tines. TIA,
Hayley

In article ,
says...
Am in the process of replacing some of my tools and wanted to buy decent
ones this time. I'm confused about teh kinds of head. What is the difference
between carbon steel and stainless steel (other than colour - am I correct
in thinking that carbon steel is grey whilst stainless is shiny?). Can both
be sharpened easily? I'm about to buy a Dutch hoe so want something that I
can sharpen. Has anyone any experience of the S&J heritage range? I'm
looking at that one at the moment as I have one of their border forks and
really like using it but more for the look and feel of the handle than the
make of the tines. TIA,

Carbon steel will hold a sharp edge, but will rust unless you keep it coated
with oil. Stainless will not rust but you will not get a very good edge.

pb wrote:
In article ,
says...
Am in the process of replacing some of my tools and wanted to buy
decent ones this time. I'm confused about teh kinds of head. What
is
the difference between carbon steel and stainless steel (other
than
colour - am I correct in thinking that carbon steel is grey whilst
stainless is shiny?). Can both be sharpened easily? I'm about to
buy
a Dutch hoe so want something that I can sharpen. Has anyone any
experience of the S&J heritage range? I'm looking at that one at
the
moment as I have one of their border forks and really like using
it
but more for the look and feel of the handle than the make of the
tines. TIA,

Carbon steel will hold a sharp edge, but will rust unless you keep
it
coated with oil. Stainless will not rust but you will not get a
very
good edge.

Yes, stainless is bright, while carbon steel is duller, and in the
shop will usually have a coat of paint. Stainless is a little easier
to work with: less friction. I think this sometimes compensates for
the lack of a sharp edge; but for most purposes I don't think there's
much difference. I go over the Dutch hoe, and very occasionally the
spade, with a scythe stone, but I'm not looking for a knife edge.
Starting again, I think I'd buy stainless spade and fork, maybe not
hoe -- but always with wooden handles. Wood feels nice, is easily
replaced, and I don't quite trust the plastic ones.

If money's tight, though, good carbon-steel tools will last a hundred
years or more if looked after even quite carelessly: just don't leave
them out in the weather. Stainless is probably a bit of a fad.

On handles. I've just had an inspiration: another advantage of wooden
handles is that you could, for a price, get them made to measure.
Geoffrey Smith reckons the standard handle length is too short: he
may be right.

--
Mike.

"Mike Lyle" wrote after...
pb wrote:
....
Am in the process of replacing some of my tools and wanted to buy
decent ones this time. I'm confused about teh kinds of head. What
is
the difference between carbon steel and stainless steel (other
than
colour - am I correct in thinking that carbon steel is grey whilst
stainless is shiny?). Can both be sharpened easily? I'm about to
buy
a Dutch hoe so want something that I can sharpen. Has anyone any
experience of the S&J heritage range? I'm looking at that one at
the
moment as I have one of their border forks and really like using
it
but more for the look and feel of the handle than the make of the
tines. TIA,

Carbon steel will hold a sharp edge, but will rust unless you keep
it
coated with oil. Stainless will not rust but you will not get a
very
good edge.

Yes, stainless is bright, while carbon steel is duller, and in the
shop will usually have a coat of paint. Stainless is a little easier
to work with: less friction. I think this sometimes compensates for
the lack of a sharp edge; but for most purposes I don't think there's
much difference. I go over the Dutch hoe, and very occasionally the
spade, with a scythe stone, but I'm not looking for a knife edge.
Starting again, I think I'd buy stainless spade and fork, maybe not
hoe -- but always with wooden handles. Wood feels nice, is easily
replaced, and I don't quite trust the plastic ones.

If money's tight, though, good carbon-steel tools will last a hundred
years or more if looked after even quite carelessly: just don't leave
them out in the weather. Stainless is probably a bit of a fad.

On handles. I've just had an inspiration: another advantage of wooden
handles is that you could, for a price, get them made to measure.
Geoffrey Smith reckons the standard handle length is too short: he
may be right.

I've got a stainless fork and spade but they were so expensive (British
made) that I don't leave them in my Defender van, so don't take them down
the allotment, the result being they seldom get used. I end up always using
my cheap steel ones.
For a Hoe take a look at the Wolf Garten Push Pull Weeder (the smaller of
the two) an excellent hoe head and you get the (wooden) handle that suits
you as they come in (3?) different lenghts. It's self sharpening too.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

Slight correction re sharpening of stainless....a perfectly sharp edge can
be obtained and will hold its sharpness longer than the carbon steel.....not
as easy to get it as sharp as carbon steeel but sharp it can be....mine are
damned sharp....sharpened slowly on a wheel with a few cooling offs during
sharpening..H





bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"Mike Lyle" wrote after...
pb wrote:
...
Am in the process of replacing some of my tools and wanted to buy
decent ones this time. I'm confused about teh kinds of head. What
is
the difference between carbon steel and stainless steel (other
than
colour - am I correct in thinking that carbon steel is grey whilst
stainless is shiny?). Can both be sharpened easily? I'm about to
buy
a Dutch hoe so want something that I can sharpen. Has anyone any
experience of the S&J heritage range? I'm looking at that one at
the
moment as I have one of their border forks and really like using
it
but more for the look and feel of the handle than the make of the
tines. TIA,

Carbon steel will hold a sharp edge, but will rust unless you keep
it
coated with oil. Stainless will not rust but you will not get a
very
good edge.

Yes, stainless is bright, while carbon steel is duller, and in the
shop will usually have a coat of paint. Stainless is a little easier
to work with: less friction. I think this sometimes compensates for
the lack of a sharp edge; but for most purposes I don't think there's
much difference. I go over the Dutch hoe, and very occasionally the
spade, with a scythe stone, but I'm not looking for a knife edge.
Starting again, I think I'd buy stainless spade and fork, maybe not
hoe -- but always with wooden handles. Wood feels nice, is easily
replaced, and I don't quite trust the plastic ones.

If money's tight, though, good carbon-steel tools will last a hundred
years or more if looked after even quite carelessly: just don't leave
them out in the weather. Stainless is probably a bit of a fad.

On handles. I've just had an inspiration: another advantage of wooden
handles is that you could, for a price, get them made to measure.
Geoffrey Smith reckons the standard handle length is too short: he
may be right.

I've got a stainless fork and spade but they were so expensive (British
made) that I don't leave them in my Defender van, so don't take them down
the allotment, the result being they seldom get used. I end up always
using my cheap steel ones.
For a Hoe take a look at the Wolf Garten Push Pull Weeder (the smaller of
the two) an excellent hoe head and you get the (wooden) handle that suits
you as they come in (3?) different lenghts. It's self sharpening too.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

"Harold Walker" wrote in message
...
Slight correction re sharpening of stainless....a perfectly sharp edge can
be obtained and will hold its sharpness longer than the carbon
steel.....not as easy to get it as sharp as carbon steeel but sharp it can
be....mine are damned sharp....sharpened slowly on a wheel with a few
cooling offs during sharpening..H





bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"Mike Lyle" wrote after...
pb wrote:
...
Am in the process of replacing some of my tools and wanted to buy
decent ones this time. I'm confused about teh kinds of head. What
is
the difference between carbon steel and stainless steel (other
than
colour - am I correct in thinking that carbon steel is grey whilst
stainless is shiny?). Can both be sharpened easily? I'm about to
buy
a Dutch hoe so want something that I can sharpen. Has anyone any
experience of the S&J heritage range? I'm looking at that one at
the
moment as I have one of their border forks and really like using
it
but more for the look and feel of the handle than the make of the
tines. TIA,

Carbon steel will hold a sharp edge, but will rust unless you keep
it
coated with oil. Stainless will not rust but you will not get a
very
good edge.

Yes, stainless is bright, while carbon steel is duller, and in the
shop will usually have a coat of paint. Stainless is a little easier
to work with: less friction. I think this sometimes compensates for
the lack of a sharp edge; but for most purposes I don't think there's
much difference. I go over the Dutch hoe, and very occasionally the
spade, with a scythe stone, but I'm not looking for a knife edge.
Starting again, I think I'd buy stainless spade and fork, maybe not
hoe -- but always with wooden handles. Wood feels nice, is easily
replaced, and I don't quite trust the plastic ones.

If money's tight, though, good carbon-steel tools will last a hundred
years or more if looked after even quite carelessly: just don't leave
them out in the weather. Stainless is probably a bit of a fad.

On handles. I've just had an inspiration: another advantage of wooden
handles is that you could, for a price, get them made to measure.
Geoffrey Smith reckons the standard handle length is too short: he
may be right.

I've got a stainless fork and spade but they were so expensive (British
made) that I don't leave them in my Defender van, so don't take them down
the allotment, the result being they seldom get used. I end up always
using my cheap steel ones.
For a Hoe take a look at the Wolf Garten Push Pull Weeder (the smaller of
the two) an excellent hoe head and you get the (wooden) handle that suits
you as they come in (3?) different lenghts. It's self sharpening too.

Yes you can get stainless sharp but not as sharp as suitably heat treated
high carbon steel. For spades that's splitting hairs - you don't need 'em
that sharp, and if you've got sticky clay then stainless is preferable.
For 'Dutch hoe' I absolutely agree with Bob, the Wolf ones are carbon steel,
self sharpening, cut on the pull and push stroke and are almost self
cleaning unless the soil is wet, they are also well priced. For knives,
stainless is the most common but for serious knife work - ie professional
grafting/budding you need good carbon steel blades - preferably the German
'Tina' brand.
--
Rod

My real address is rodtheweedygardeneratmyweedyisp
Just remove the weedy bits
and transplant the appropriate symbol at.

In article ,
says...
Slight correction re sharpening of stainless....a perfectly sharp edge can
be obtained and will hold its sharpness longer than the carbon steel.....not
as easy to get it as sharp as carbon steeel but sharp it can be....mine are
damned sharp....sharpened slowly on a wheel with a few cooling offs during
sharpening..H


Anyone who uses edged tools for a living will use carbon steel, chisels, saws,
chefs knives are all carbon steel, a jagged edge obtained from a grinding wheel
may well feel sharp, like a serrated knife, but it comes nowhere near a good
carbon steel. Stainless tools also tend to be thicker than carbon steel, not so
much of a problem with a spade or fork but a hoe for instance needs to be thin
to work properly.

"pb" wrote in message
.com...
In article ,

says...
Slight correction re sharpening of stainless....a perfectly sharp edge
can
be obtained and will hold its sharpness longer than the carbon
steel.....not
as easy to get it as sharp as carbon steeel but sharp it can be....mine
are
damned sharp....sharpened slowly on a wheel with a few cooling offs
during
sharpening..H


Anyone who uses edged tools for a living will use carbon steel, chisels,
saws,
chefs knives are all carbon steel, a jagged edge obtained from a grinding
wheel
may well feel sharp, like a serrated knife, but it comes nowhere near a
good
carbon steel. Stainless tools also tend to be thicker than carbon steel,
not so
much of a problem with a spade or fork but a hoe for instance needs to be
thin
to work properly.


Personally I also use nothing but carbon steel knives and 90 percent of my
gardening tools are also carbon steel....my one stainless spade is used for
cutting grass sod and does a nice job.....what I was getting at is that
stainless can be sharpened....whether or not one uses it is a different
issue......frankly for general use stainless is just too
heavy....incidentally, my grinding wheel produced a veryy fine edge and not
ajagged one....same one that I sharpen my chisels on....a cabinet makers son
so I know what 'sharp' is.....H

The message
from pb contains these words:
In article ,

says...

Slight correction re sharpening of stainless....a perfectly sharp
edge can
be obtained and will hold its sharpness longer than the carbon steel..

Unless the stainless steel is surgical quality, it will be neither as
sharp, nor will it keep its edge as well as carbon steel.

Really good garden tools are made from forged carbon steel castings,
then hardened and tempered.

...not
as easy to get it as sharp as carbon steeel but sharp it can
be....mine are
damned sharp....sharpened slowly on a wheel with a few cooling offs
during
sharpening..H

I like SS spades and forks for use on heavy soil, for when they are well
maintained they tend not to stick to it so much.

Anyone who uses edged tools for a living will use carbon steel,
chisels, saws,
chefs knives are all carbon steel, a jagged edge obtained from a
grinding wheel
may well feel sharp, like a serrated knife, but it comes nowhere near
a good
carbon steel. Stainless tools also tend to be thicker than carbon
steel, not so
much of a problem with a spade or fork but a hoe for instance needs to
be thin
to work properly.

The trouble with most stainless steels is their grain, and if you try to
sharpen them on an oilstone the stone is soon clogged with tiny
particles, and the chrome in it ruins a decent steel. [1]

[1] hard steel fluted sharpening rod.

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/