House sparrows were the most common bird for the second year in a row,
although sightings are falling. An average 4.56 sparrows were spotted
per garden this year, compared to an average of 10 in 1979, the first
year of the survey.



hmmmm, sparrows decrease, sparrow hawks increase ...see if you can work out
the connection. .

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

"martin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 00:35:47 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
wrote:



House sparrows were the most common bird for the second year in a row,
although sightings are falling. An average 4.56 sparrows were spotted
per garden this year, compared to an average of 10 in 1979, the first
year of the survey.



hmmmm, sparrows decrease, sparrow hawks increase ...see if you can work
out
the connection. .

... how many sparrow hawks does it take to eat millions of sparrows
per year??
--
Martin

Don't know but the sparrow hawk has about twenty each year from our garden,
the sparrow colony is thriving they have 4 or more broods a year, but it
keeps the numbers roughly static.
It hunts over the pond area and has a particular line of attack, the
sparrows seem to know this and avoid crossing the area (well the smart ones
do) preferring to progress through the shrubs and trees its mostly when they
are fighting they get taken in the open.
I would have thought the decline more to do with food supply, the
countryside is a lot tidier than it used to be.

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

The message
from martin contains these words:

.... how many sparrow hawks does it take to eat millions of sparrows
per year??

Divide 'millions' by (say) 10 × 7 × 52 and you might be surprised at the
result.

To save you the trouble, somewhere near 275 sparrowhawks per million
sparrows, assuming that one sparrowhawk will kill (and not necessarily
eat all of) ten sparrows per day.

Oh, and I didn't see the OP (probably crossposted), but the songthrushe
population is *NOT* declining, it is growing quite markedly.

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:21:49 +0200, martin wrote:

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 13:23:20 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote:

The message
from martin contains these words:

.... how many sparrow hawks does it take to eat millions of sparrows
per year??

Divide 'millions' by (say) 10 × 7 × 52 and you might be surprised at the
result.

To save you the trouble, somewhere near 275 sparrowhawks per million
sparrows, assuming that one sparrowhawk will kill (and not necessarily
eat all of) ten sparrows per day.

Oh, and I didn't see the OP (probably crossposted), but the songthrushe
population is *NOT* declining, it is growing quite markedly.

http://www.garden-birds.co.uk/birds/housesparrow.htm
The House Sparrow is a Red List species owing to a serious decline
(over 60%) in its population

The guy is talking out of his backside. The song thrush is STILL very
firmly a RED LIST subject.

In article , Jaques
d'Alltrades writes
The message
from martin contains these words:


Oh, and I didn't see the OP (probably crossposted), but the songthrushe
population is *NOT* declining, it is growing quite markedly.

Not in the UK according to figures quoted on the BTO website.

http://www.bto.org/birdtrends2004/wcrsonth.htm

There's been a slight increase over the last 10 years, but it hasn't
recovered to anywhere near the levels of 40 years ago.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

"martin" wrote
The sparrow population declined from lots to zero between one year and
the next here.

And in our little garden it went from zero for years (about 20) to a flock
of about 15 in the last year. Amazing recovery and we can't keep the seed
feeders full any more. :-)
Even more amazing was a Lesser Spotted Woodpecker on the birdtable in early
summer.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

The message
from martin contains these words:

Oh, and I didn't see the OP (probably crossposted), but the songthrushe
population is *NOT* declining, it is growing quite markedly.

The sparrow population declined from lots to zero between one year and
the next here.

That sounds like a plague of sparrowhawks.

"Let My people Go!"...

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message
from Kay contains these words:
In article , Jaques
d'Alltrades writes
The message
from martin contains these words:

Oh, and I didn't see the OP (probably crossposted), but the songthrushe
population is *NOT* declining, it is growing quite markedly.

Not in the UK according to figures quoted on the BTO website.

http://www.bto.org/birdtrends2004/wcrsonth.htm

BTO?

I'm quoting from what was said recently on (IIRC) 'Farming Today' on R4
(But might have been 'Open Country'.

There's been a slight increase over the last 10 years, but it hasn't
recovered to anywhere near the levels of 40 years ago.

I don't suppose anyone's claiming that - just that there has been a
marked increase in the numbers recently, probably down to better habitat
management and more set-aside.

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message
from "Bob Hobden" contains these words:
"martin" wrote

The sparrow population declined from lots to zero between one year and
the next here.

And in our little garden it went from zero for years (about 20) to a flock
of about 15 in the last year. Amazing recovery and we can't keep the seed
feeders full any more. :-)
Even more amazing was a Lesser Spotted Woodpecker on the birdtable in early
summer.

I've got plenty of house sparrows here - not the sun-blotting clouds I
remember at harvest in the 'fifties, but I've deliberately left plenty
of ivy about the garden for them to nest in.

Song thrushes are a different matter. I haven't seen one round *HERE*
for years. Blackbirds, yes. Fieldfares and redwings in their season,
yes. But of thrushes, song or missile^H^H^mistle, zilch.

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 14:47:21 +0100, John wrote:

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:21:49 +0200, martin wrote:

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 13:23:20 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote:

The message
from martin contains these words:

.... how many sparrow hawks does it take to eat millions of sparrows
per year??

Divide 'millions' by (say) 10 ? 7 ? 52 and you might be surprised at the
result.

To save you the trouble, somewhere near 275 sparrowhawks per million
sparrows, assuming that one sparrowhawk will kill (and not necessarily
eat all of) ten sparrows per day.

Oh, and I didn't see the OP (probably crossposted), but the songthrushe
population is *NOT* declining, it is growing quite markedly.

http://www.garden-birds.co.uk/birds/housesparrow.htm
The House Sparrow is a Red List species owing to a serious decline
(over 60%) in its population

The guy is talking out of his backside. The song thrush is STILL very
firmly a RED LIST subject.

Quite.

"martin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 00:35:47 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
wrote:



House sparrows were the most common bird for the second year in a row,
although sightings are falling. An average 4.56 sparrows were spotted
per garden this year, compared to an average of 10 in 1979, the first
year of the survey.



hmmmm, sparrows decrease, sparrow hawks increase ...see if you can work
out
the connection. .

... how many sparrow hawks does it take to eat millions of sparrows
per year??
--
Martin

Last time I read there were about 65,000 SH's in the UK.

If they each eat one sparrow a day, that is nearly 24 million sparrows a
year.

Will that do?

Quick google
...http://www.birdguides.com/html/vidli...iter_nisus.htm
agrees with my recollection.

FWIW, the same site says that by the end of summer there will be 170,000
birds (because the 65,000 was just breeding birds).

If the other 105,000 eat 1 sparrow a day for a couple of months in total
before dying, that is an additional 6 million sparrows.

So, thats likely where 30 million of the sparrows went....

Maybe our veggie friends can persuade the SH's to drink soya milk instead?

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

"martin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 13:23:20 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote:

The message
from martin contains these words:

.... how many sparrow hawks does it take to eat millions of sparrows
per year??

Divide 'millions' by (say) 10 × 7 × 52 and you might be surprised at the
result.

To save you the trouble, somewhere near 275 sparrowhawks per million
sparrows, assuming that one sparrowhawk will kill (and not necessarily
eat all of) ten sparrows per day.

Oh, and I didn't see the OP (probably crossposted), but the songthrushe
population is *NOT* declining, it is growing quite markedly.

http://www.garden-birds.co.uk/birds/housesparrow.htm
The House Sparrow is a Red List species owing to a serious decline
(over 60%) in its population over the last 20 to 30 years. The reason
for the decline is not known, though several theories have been
suggested:

* methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) in unleaded petrol is
affecting abundance of insect for feeding young.
* autumn sown cereal crops leaves little stubble for them to
forage in or spilt grain to glean.
* predation by the increasing number of cats.
* modern buildings have fewer holes and crevices where the birds
can nest.
* Collared Doves compete for a greater share of the same food
types as the sparrows.

--
Martin

how come a doubling of the sparrow hawk population over the same period isnt
mentioned as a potential contributory factor?
http://www.bto.org/birdtrends2004/wcrsparr.htm

or wouldnt that lead to any interesting & grant-funded research?

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

In article , Jaques
d'Alltrades writes
The message
from Kay contains these words:
In article , Jaques
d'Alltrades writes
The message
from martin contains these words:

Oh, and I didn't see the OP (probably crossposted), but the songthrushe
population is *NOT* declining, it is growing quite markedly.

Not in the UK according to figures quoted on the BTO website.

http://www.bto.org/birdtrends2004/wcrsonth.htm

BTO?

British Trust for Ornithology

I'm quoting from what was said recently on (IIRC) 'Farming Today' on R4
(But might have been 'Open Country'.

There's been a slight increase over the last 10 years, but it hasn't
recovered to anywhere near the levels of 40 years ago.

I don't suppose anyone's claiming that - just that there has been a
marked increase in the numbers recently, probably down to better habitat
management and more set-aside.

It didn't look marked to me, but maybe we differ in how we define the
word.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

Tumbleweed wrote:
[...]
how come a doubling of the sparrow hawk population over the same
period isnt mentioned as a potential contributory factor?
http://www.bto.org/birdtrends2004/wcrsparr.htm

or wouldnt that lead to any interesting & grant-funded research?

I don't know; but I think it's been conventional, and therefore
probably grant-funded or university-salaried, research which has led
to the conventional wisdom that predators are actually the vulnerable
ones in terms of numbers. I could be wrong, of course, but I think it
takes a certain population size of prey species to maintain a healthy
population of predators: below that critical size, the prey may be
viable, but the predators aren't. (The cat factor skews it all for
the suburbs, of course, just as the human factor skews it for the
sea.)

If TV coverage is anything to go by, there's never been any shortage
of research on predators -- sharks, crocs, killer whales, lions,
tigers, birds of prey, you name it. They're the glamorous species,
not the sparrows.

--
Mike.

The message
from Jaques d'Alltrades contains
these words:

Song thrushes are a different matter. I haven't seen one round *HERE*
for years.


We usually have a thrush or two nesting in our abundant Ribes hedges.
This year we had two nests, each fledging successfully. It is to be
hoped that they manage to survive the winter and return to the hedges
next season. Fortunatlely, we don't have many cats around the area, it
being a mile to the nearest village, thus many more fledgelings have a
chance to survive.

--
Cheers,

Compo.