I have planted 16 basil seeds and 16 tumbler tom seeds in a propagator,
I have put this into a warm cupboard following advice on here.
Many of the basil seeds have germinated, and so far one of the tom
seeds. However, they all appear very leggy - they are about 2' tall so
far but are yet to develop any leaves (they still have the tight white
'ball' on the top).
Should they be this leggy ? I have moved them to a sunny position to
try and stimulate leave development - was this the right thing to do,
esp considering most os the toms have not germinated ?? Should I buy
another smaller propagator and seed tray and split them out into
germinated / not germinated - putting the former in a sunny position
and leaving the latter in the cupboard ?

wrote:
I have planted 16 basil seeds and 16 tumbler tom seeds in a propagator,
I have put this into a warm cupboard following advice on here.
Many of the basil seeds have germinated, and so far one of the tom
seeds. However, they all appear very leggy - they are about 2' tall so
far but are yet to develop any leaves (they still have the tight white
'ball' on the top).
Should they be this leggy ? I have moved them to a sunny position to
try and stimulate leave development - was this the right thing to do,
esp considering most os the toms have not germinated ?? Should I buy
another smaller propagator and seed tray and split them out into
germinated / not germinated - putting the former in a sunny position
and leaving the latter in the cupboard ?

Assuming you mean 2" and not 2' ;-) I'd be inclined to leave them alone
on the windowsill or wherever their sunny position is. If you put them
in the dark, they're getting leggy because they're trying to get to the
light. I think the tomato seeds will germinate in time. Don't let the
compost dry out but don't saturate it, either.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon

yep - 2" !
OK - I'll leave them where they are now, and hopefully they'll start
behaving. The Basil seeds which came up first are now leggy, the later
ones are not so - hopefully this move will stop them going that way.
The same should be the case now for the toms.
I'll keep the lid on the propagator to try and keep humidity and temp
up. I've been lightly spraying them every day so are moist but not wet.

Again - thanks for the help Sacha !

wrote:
I have planted 16 basil seeds and 16 tumbler tom seeds in a propagator,
I have put this into a warm cupboard following advice on here.
Many of the basil seeds have germinated, and so far one of the tom
seeds. However, they all appear very leggy - they are about 2' tall so
far but are yet to develop any leaves (they still have the tight white
'ball' on the top).
Should they be this leggy ? I have moved them to a sunny position to
try and stimulate leave development - was this the right thing to do,
esp considering most os the toms have not germinated ?? Should I buy
another smaller propagator and seed tray and split them out into
germinated / not germinated - putting the former in a sunny position
and leaving the latter in the cupboard ?

No. Keep them on a sunny window seal, in a warm place and rotate them
so that they don't bend towards one side only. You need to check them
daily too. Don't place them in the dark again. Not all the seeds will
germinate. I've started my toms last week end and would expect
something in about 10 days. Herbs germinate faster than toms too. Once
the toms have developed 2 leaves, start pricking them out into their
own pot each. I'm sure you know the rest ... Where are you going to
grow them?

Thanks for the reply. I was suprised that the one tom seed germinated
so quickly -maybe its a stray basil ?!
They will be going into hanging baskets on a south facing fence -
therefore getting full sun and well shaded from the wind. I've planted
about 5x more seeds than I need plants, so should have enough choice to
pick the strong ones.

wrote:
yep - 2" !
OK - I'll leave them where they are now, and hopefully they'll start
behaving. The Basil seeds which came up first are now leggy, the later
ones are not so - hopefully this move will stop them going that way.
The same should be the case now for the toms.
I'll keep the lid on the propagator to try and keep humidity and temp
up. I've been lightly spraying them every day so are moist but not wet.

FWIW, I've got loads of leggy seedlings sprouted from seeds planted in
early March that I couldn't put into the greenhouse because it's been
so unusually cold. I've just planted a few "spares" in case anything
goes horribly wrong, but now they're out in the greenhouse I'm mostly
just going to let them get on with things and see how it turns out.

I think I need a better solution for next year though. I'd completely
run out of window space by the middle of March...

James

wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I was suprised that the one tom seed germinated
so quickly -maybe its a stray basil ?!

) I keep finding Rusty's stray chillies in everything!

They will be going into hanging baskets on a south facing fence -
therefore getting full sun and well shaded from the wind.

I've tried 3 different locations last year - my lotty, the back of the
house on raised beds facing west but shaded by 4pm and in my veranda.
The best ones was in the lotty. They splited a bit - but in a
ratatouille or tourrain, who cares )

I've planted
about 5x more seeds than I need plants, so should have enough choice to
pick the strong ones.

I usually do half packets and swap with someone else's. This year all
the hollyhocks I've sown have germinated. Last year I only had about 8.
I've started to use vermiculite and I can't praise the stuff enough. It
really gives that extra drainage to the seeds.

wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I was suprised that the one tom seed germinated
so quickly -maybe its a stray basil ?!
They will be going into hanging baskets on a south facing fence -
therefore getting full sun and well shaded from the wind. I've planted
about 5x more seeds than I need plants, so should have enough choice to
pick the strong ones.

It is like a lot of instructions, very difficult to follow. Place in
dark until germination, fine except they will not all germinate
simultaneously. So if you leave them in the dark until they all
germinate the earliest are too leggy. The answer is of course, the
difference between myself (instructions must be obeyed at all times) and
a skilled gardener, who knows exactly when to move them into the light,
enter Sacha et al, takes a bow! :-)

wrote in message
ps.com...
Thanks for the reply. I was suprised that the one tom seed germinated
so quickly -maybe its a stray basil ?!
They will be going into hanging baskets on a south facing fence -
therefore getting full sun and well shaded from the wind. I've planted
about 5x more seeds than I need plants, so should have enough choice to
pick the strong ones.


Given that you'll presumably be leaving the propagator permanently
on the windowsill from now on, in line with all the advice proffered:
as the weather has improved, in the SE at least.
I haven't conducted any experiments to prove the efficacy of this,
but its not that difficult to cut out an extra blanket lid out of
bubblewrap, which can be slid right over the propagator at night
and removed in the morning. Slid right down so it rests on the actual
sill all around. Cut the bubblewrap to fit, by draping it over the lid
and then stick the sides together with sellotape. The actual thickness
is up to you, depending on much clearance you have all round..
This is easy with an unheated propagator as there's no snagging with
the cable. Depending on the material of the sill, resting the propagator
on a sheet of bubblewrap or a thin sheet of expanded polystyrene cut
to fit, may also reduce heat loss in that direction too.
Apparently insulating bubblewrap is far more effective than packing
bubblewrap, of which you can find odd bits knocking around all over
the place for nothing. But then anything is better than nothing
as well. While people who don't bother with any of this probably
achieve results which are 80% as good.


michael adams

....

Broadback wrote:
It is like a lot of instructions, very difficult to follow. Place in
dark until germination, fine except they will not all germinate
simultaneously. So if you leave them in the dark until they all
germinate the earliest are too leggy. The answer is of course, the
difference between myself (instructions must be obeyed at all times) and
a skilled gardener, who knows exactly when to move them into the light,
enter Sacha et al, takes a bow! :-)

I've sowed veges and flowers since I'm big enough to hold a pot and
some seeds. I have never ever placed my seeds in the dark.

Its all a learning curve I guess... this being my first year, I can be
sure some things will go wrong. Hopefully I wont start annoying people
with all my questions !

James Fidell wrote:
FWIW, I've got loads of leggy seedlings sprouted from seeds planted in
early March that I couldn't put into the greenhouse because it's been
so unusually cold. I've just planted a few "spares" in case anything
goes horribly wrong, but now they're out in the greenhouse I'm mostly
just going to let them get on with things and see how it turns out.

I think I need a better solution for next year though. I'd completely
run out of window space by the middle of March...

Well, we had enough a few years ago when I had all of the window seals
chucker with seedling and my cats driving me nuts everytime they
approached the windows to investigate. So we built, sorry 'he' built, a
veranda/greenhouse/conservatory thing at the back. Since then it's just
blooming marvelous )

On 28 Mar 2006 00:18:04 -0800, wrote:

I have planted 16 basil seeds and 16 tumbler tom seeds in a propagator,
I have put this into a warm cupboard following advice on here.
Many of the basil seeds have germinated, and so far one of the tom
seeds. However, they all appear very leggy - they are about 2' tall so
far but are yet to develop any leaves (they still have the tight white
'ball' on the top).
Should they be this leggy ? I have moved them to a sunny position to
try and stimulate leave development - was this the right thing to do,
esp considering most os the toms have not germinated ?? Should I buy
another smaller propagator and seed tray and split them out into
germinated / not germinated - putting the former in a sunny position
and leaving the latter in the cupboard ?

I assume you mean inches and not feet!

2" for tomato seedlings is not too extreme but for basil seedlings
without a leaf that is extreme.

Seedlings generally get leggy when there's too much heat and too
little light. Which is a bit of a simplification admittedly but close
enough to be a usable guide. If you make it dark and warm then you
just recreate the forest floor and they will go at breakneck speed to
try to poke their heads above the canopy before everything else.

I'd try to reduce the heat a little and increase the light a lot. You
could try keeping the tomatoes somewhere warmer than the basil if
possible.

hmm.. too much heat and not enough light - that'll be my airing
cupboard then !
Hopefully they'll be OK now I've moved them somewhere a little warm but
much lighter. The ones that germinated first are prob past saving, but
the latest ones that aren't very leggy yet should hopefully be OK.

One question though - they dont have leaves yet, so how do they 'know'
if its light or dark ?! I can understand this if there were leaves - ie
hunting for light, but they are taking all they need from the compost
at the moment...

wrote:
hmm.. too much heat and not enough light - that'll be my airing
cupboard then !
Hopefully they'll be OK now I've moved them somewhere a little warm but
much lighter. The ones that germinated first are prob past saving, but
the latest ones that aren't very leggy yet should hopefully be OK.

One question though - they dont have leaves yet, so how do they 'know'
if its light or dark ?! I can understand this if there were leaves - ie
hunting for light, but they are taking all they need from the compost
at the moment...

AFAIR from my O-level Biology, plants also "know" which way is up or
down and shoots grow one way whilst roots grow the other, even in the
absence of light. Something vaguely suggests the effect is called
"geotropism" (whereas growing towards/away from light is
"phototropism").

James