Does anyone grow a Cladrastis sinensis or C. Lutea? Anyone know "sharp
intake of breath" comments about them?


We had to take down our lovely red oak last week (Kay will be appalled)
but it had been put in the wrong place some years ago and every year we
were having to prune it more and more to keep it within reason.
t was sold to us as a slower growing smaller version of the Quercus
robur - no chance!
It had suddenly found a vein of good soil under our flint and chalk and
was going like the clappers, about 15 foot higher than the house and
only 30 foot from the back door!

A tree surgeon who was lightening the hazel etc said we would have to
bite the bullet and get it out pretty soon.

We loved the shade it threw and the colours in the autumn but being
sensible we have now got a grubbed out hole and the chance to plant
anew. We have a squirrel sown oak three quarters of the way down the
garden, no about 20 - 30 foot high so decided we could let this one go.
However - the question is, what to put in it's place?

Don't want anything too dense but dappled shade and to se the bottom of
the garden through the branches would be nice.

Reading the John Cushnie excellent book on trees I came across the
Cladrastis either the chines yellowwood (sinensis) or the American one
which has yellow flowers(lutea)
Most of the trees I liked had the ominous phrase "dislikes alkaline
soil" which is a bit of a blow really !


Our soil if verging on the alkaline as most does in the Chilterns though
not too alkaline, but the soil is heavy and flint and clay. It will be
in full sun and we have about 25 foot all round it for it to be a
specimen tree. However it is at the end of the patio etc about 30 foot
from the house.

Don't mind growing one and then moving house before it's too big to
leave!

Would like a deciduous tree, and already have rowan, mulberry (chopped
down to stump - regrown every year) hazel, hawthorn, oak, silver birch.


Idea please? NOT the horrid bright yellow-leaved gledista, it must look
like a tree, i.e. be green.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Amersham Gardening Association
http://www.amersham-gardening.net

Janet Tweedy wrote:
Idea please? NOT the horrid bright yellow-leaved gledista, it must look
like a tree, i.e. be green.

what about Field Maple (Acer campestre). I've got one, on heavy clay.
OK, it's common as muck but it grows nearly a metre a year if the soil
is wet enough and looks fantastic when the leaves change colour. Then
it drops millions of the damn things, good if you like collecting for
leaf mould.

Dappled shade? Yes, if you thin it out a bit. It can be coppiced, if
you are a tree butcher, but left alone it forms a nice hemisphecial
crown, or a bit more open if you get in there with a bow saw.

Home to lots and lots of insects. OK, we had a red spider mite
infestation when it was tiny, lasted about 3 years, but it shook them
off and nothing else suffered.

PFAF says this about C Lutea:
http://www.pfaf.org/database/plants....adrastis+lutea
Doesn't mention C. sinensis.

Whitebeams will definitely tolerate your conditions, and my parents have had a couple that have grown with a suitably light crown, albeit well spread. I rather like the silvery-green leaf colour, it is a highlight against the darker green of most trees.

One deciduous tree you could grow that would definitely let you see through the branches would be Nothofagus Antartica (bizarrely not on PFAF), as it has very small leaves. I have one at the bottom of my garden for that very reason (in Little Chalfont, but it sounds like my soil is less alkaline than yours as I have acers, magnolias, rhododendrons etc). If you want to inspect it, do contact me, or even take cuttings, as now is ideal cutting time for semi-ripe cuttings from it. It doesn't have flowers though (well it does but you need a magnifying glass to see them).

For showy flowers, among the flowering dogwoods, Cornus kousa has a relatively light crown and is supposedly tolerant of mild alkali and clay, short of a shallow chalky soil.

Another light-crowned tree is the Judas tree (Cercis siliquastrum), especially if you grow it as a standard rather than multi-stemmed. It will grow on limestone, but it does need reasonably well-drained conditions. It is rather slow growing, especially to start with, and expect it to take about 7 years to flower.

In article . com,
"Cat(h)" writes

How about one of my absolute favourites, the sweet chestnut?


Saw a variegated one last week but suspect they can get as big as the
red oak!

Janet

--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article om,
writes
Janet Tweedy wrote:
Idea please? NOT the horrid bright yellow-leaved gledista, it must look
like a tree, i.e. be green.

what about Field Maple (Acer campestre). I've got one, on heavy clay.
OK, it's common as muck but it grows nearly a metre a year if the soil
is wet enough and looks fantastic when the leaves change colour. Then
it drops millions of the damn things, good if you like collecting for
leaf mould.


That's an idea, and this will be a silly question but does it move with
the wind? Hollies don't but birches and oaks and so on do have some
movement to them when the wind blows which I always like in the garden,
a still, densely leaved tree might be a bit oppressive?

Janet

--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , echinosum
writes


Whitebeams will definitely tolerate your conditions, and my parents
have had a couple that have grown with a suitably light crown, albeit
well spread. I rather like the silvery-green leaf colour, it is a
highlight against the darker green of most trees.

Yes I like them as well, it's an idea. I was thinking of going up to the
Bluebell nursery in Warwickshire to see what they had as their web site
looks interesting.



One deciduous tree you could grow that would definitely let you see
through the branches would be Nothofagus Antartica (bizarrely not on
PFAF), as it has very small leaves. I have one at the bottom of my
garden for that very reason (in Little Chalfont, but it sounds like my
soil is less alkaline than yours


Well I'm only 2 miles away in Amersham! I know we are at the top of the
hill and it might make a difference e but we do have a LOT of flint.
Little Chalfont was always easier to grow things in when we lived there.


For showy flowers, among the flowering dogwoods, Cornus kousa has a
relatively light crown and is supposedly tolerant of mild alkali and
clay, short of a shallow chalky soil.


Not so sure about this one as if they aren't growing REALLY well they
can look really depressed and pathetic

Another light-crowned tree is the Judas tree (Cercis siliquastrum),
especially if you grow it as a standard rather than multi-stemmed.


Oh I have one of those though it hasn't been very fast growing from
cutting, only putting on about 6 inches a year.

It
will grow on limestone, but it does need reasonably well-drained
conditions. It is rather slow growing, especially to start with, and
expect it to take about 7 years to flower.

Thanks for the suggestions though from everyone, I'll look up each one
as I HATE the absence of the tree.


Maybe I'll come and look at your tree,echinsosum!

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , Janet Baraclough
writes


Sorbus aria lutescens is lovely; the leaves are so white they almost
look like flowers in spring, and twinkle in the wind. They are very
hardy trees, grow quite quickly when young but don't get too ginormous.

Janet



Good for wildlife as well?

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

"Janet Tweedy"


Well I'm only 2 miles away in Amersham! I know we are at the top of the
hill and it might make a difference e but we do have a LOT of flint.
Little Chalfont was always easier to grow things in when we lived there.


Does that mean your garden is well drained Janet?
If so how about giving the Silk Tree (Albizia julibrissin) a try.
It will take frost down to double figures, down to -13°C in a friends garden
in France, just doesn't like winter wet roots.

Details on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albizia_julibrissin


--
Regards
Bob Hobden
17mls W. of London.UK

In article , Bob Hobden
writes

"Janet Tweedy"


Well I'm only 2 miles away in Amersham! I know we are at the top of the
hill and it might make a difference e but we do have a LOT of flint.
Little Chalfont was always easier to grow things in when we lived there.


Does that mean your garden is well drained Janet?
If so how about giving the Silk Tree (Albizia julibrissin) a try.
It will take frost down to double figures, down to -13°C in a friends garden
in France, just doesn't like winter wet roots.

Details on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albizia_julibrissin




That's a very tempting idea Bob, though I can't say the soil is very
well drained, just very dry! I might investigate that tree as well.

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

Janet Tweedy wrote:
In article . com,
"Cat(h)" writes

How about one of my absolute favourites, the sweet chestnut?


Saw a variegated one last week but suspect they can get as big as the
red oak!

Janet

They do grow quite large. I was born right beside a 150 year + sweet
chestnut forest (planted, though the tree is I believe native to SW
France), and some of the trees were as large as large old oaks.
But you might have moved house before the 150 years are up?
And I admit to shuddering at the thought of a variegated chestnut - why
mess around with perfection?

Cat(h) (who having had a very special tree house in one, is utterly
non-objective about sweet chestnut trees)

Janet Tweedy wrote:
[ Field Maple (Acer campestre).}

That's an idea, and this will be a silly question but does it move with
the wind? Hollies don't but birches and oaks and so on do have some
movement to them when the wind blows which I always like in the garden,
a still, densely leaved tree might be a bit oppressive?

The branches are fairly thick, so it moves a bit like the oak, not at
all like a weeping willow, which often resembles a hundred psychopathic
119th century bosuns with cat-o-9-tails moving in perfect synchronism.
It does not wave like my ornamental cherry, but it's about as stiff as
an oak, a sycamore, etc. Not ideal for elegant, pulsing, light, but it
does move.

For many years the dark green colour of the leaves would persist into
late autumn, then the whole lot would seem to go a translucent pale
gold in 36 hours. Most years I did not get to enjoy them 'cos about
that time we would have a gale and the whole lot would come off the
next day. Recent years, thoughbut, the leaves have remained
heat-stoppingly spectacular for about 10 days.

Janet Tweedy wrote:

That's a very tempting idea Bob, though I can't say the soil is very
well drained, just very dry! I might investigate that tree as well.

By the Abbey Church in Bourne there were two fine old trees, which had
to be felled some years ago. They were replaced with Paper-bark Maple,
Acer griseum, about 15 years ago. Those are now tall, majestic, and
provide good shade. I estimate the height at about 18 metres, they
were 4 metres when planted. Girth perhaps 0.8m, no more than 0.2 when
planted.

They are rooted into the paved area, with some of those steel radial
grids to provide a bit of open ground no more than a metre square. But
they are planted next to an tributry of the Eau, so they won't want for
water.