I have a concrete area around 150 square metres that I want to turn
into a flat lawn for the kids. My house was a farm so the whole area
around the house is solid concrete. The area I want to transform has a
brick wall surrounding 3 sides of it. The area is kind of cut out of a
sloped grass field - On one side of the wall is raised grass sloping
down towards the area and the other side is a slope down away from the
area also grass.

A major factor is I live in Fermanagh in Northern Ireland - a VERY
WET area, with poor drainage and clay soil.

I want the grass to be useable in the winter when it is most likely to
be waterlogged, so drainage is a major factor.

Should I dig up the concrete and remove it or break it up and use it as
drainage under some top soil? The project is going to be very
expensive so I want to get it right

Any advice would be appreciated

"pookey" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have a concrete area around 150 square metres that I want to turn
into a flat lawn for the kids. My house was a farm so the whole area
around the house is solid concrete. The area I want to transform has a
brick wall surrounding 3 sides of it. The area is kind of cut out of a
sloped grass field - On one side of the wall is raised grass sloping
down towards the area and the other side is a slope down away from the
area also grass.

A major factor is I live in Fermanagh in Northern Ireland - a VERY
WET area, with poor drainage and clay soil.

I want the grass to be useable in the winter when it is most likely to
be waterlogged, so drainage is a major factor.

Should I dig up the concrete and remove it or break it up and use it as
drainage under some top soil? The project is going to be very
expensive so I want to get it right

Any advice would be appreciated


http://www.sportsfield-construction....struction.html

You really don't want to use your grass in the winter! Walking on grass when it is frozen is not advisable.

I'm not sure why you think the project will be expensive, land drains, turf, top soil... are all cheap. The area is not very large. I think if you talk to the right company you might be surprised.

Thanks for the article, very helpful. Does anyone know any more about
drainage carpet and underground drains?

i assume I would dig up the concrete first?

In article ,
An Oasis writes:
|
| You really don't want to use your grass in the winter! Walking on grass
| when it is frozen is not advisable.

He is in Northern IRELAND, not northern ICELAND, you know!

| I'm not sure why you think the project will be expensive, land drains,
| turf, top soil... are all cheap. The area is not very large. I think
| if you talk to the right company you might be surprised.

Er, no. It will be expensive - farm hardstandings aren't flimsy. At an
educated but amateur guess, the following would be needed:

There MUST be a ditch and drainage channels to ensure that water running
down from above does not run INTO the lawn, but runs round it. Don't
skimp on that one.

It is critical to break up the concrete thoroughly (preferably into bits
not more than 6" across) and to level it, but not necessary to remove it.

Drainage channels should be laid in the loose concrete or its underlayer,
from preference.

They should be covered to a depth of 6" (preferably more) with some free
draining material. This could be gravel, well broken-up and fairly clean
builders rubble, or whatever. This needs to be surrounded by a suitable
wall or earth/clay slope, to stop it escaping, of course.

That should be covered by a thin layer (2") of topsoil, and turves.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"pookey" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for the article, very helpful. Does anyone know any more about
drainage carpet and underground drains?

i assume I would dig up the concrete first?


Try this site for all the info you should need
http://www.pavingexpert.com/drain03.htm

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
An Oasis writes:
|
| You really don't want to use your grass in the winter! Walking on grass
| when it is frozen is not advisable.

He is in Northern IRELAND, not northern ICELAND, you know!

| I'm not sure why you think the project will be expensive, land drains,
| turf, top soil... are all cheap. The area is not very large. I think
| if you talk to the right company you might be surprised.

Er, no. It will be expensive - farm hardstandings aren't flimsy. At an
educated but amateur guess, the following would be needed:
[...]

"Me too"s are generally pointless, but just in case the OP thinks
there's any doubt on the matter I think it needs stressing that Oasis
is quite wrong. By most standards the job will certainly be expensive.
I can only assume that Oasis is rich, and has forgotten that most
people are not.

From some experience, Nick's recipe is pretty good. The concrete may
well be six inches thick, probably on a layer of rubble or stone, and
soil underneath will certainly be compacted. On a slope, though, just
meticulously breaking up the concrete to the size of coarse crushed
stone (a hell of a job) may provide enough drainage for ordinary
purposes; but that depends on the site.

--
Mike.

He is in Northern IRELAND, not northern ICELAND, you know!





From some experience, Nick's recipe is pretty good. The concrete may
well be six inches thick, probably on a layer of rubble or stone, and
soil underneath will certainly be compacted. On a slope, though, just
meticulously breaking up the concrete to the size of coarse crushed
stone (a hell of a job) may provide enough drainage for ordinary
purposes; but that depends on the site.


thanks for all your advice, He is a she by the way, my names Paula.
Pookey is my cats name and he is a male, so I'll let you off

you guys are right about the concrete, it is around 5 inches thick and
is on a good base. We had a channel dug right across the yard (40
metres) under the wall and into the field for some electricity cables
to be layed and it was a massive job. It took 2 guys 3 days with a
digger and concrete saw and they wouldnt even have a cup of tea - they
worked solid!

I will get them back in to shift the concrete and to do any digging
work, I just need to come up with the plan of how to do the job.

at the moment i think removing the concrete, adding a layer of
gravel/small stones (quary dust maybe)???? followed by some sand/grit
and top soil with mixed sand sounds good with some drainage channels
around the outside edge. Do you think this would surfice or will I
need some porous drain channels added into the gravel bed?

In article ,
Janet Baraclough writes:
| The message . com
| from "pookey" contains these words:
|
| at the moment i think removing the concrete, adding a layer of
| gravel/small stones (quary dust maybe)???? followed by some sand/grit
| and top soil with mixed sand sounds good with some drainage channels
| around the outside edge.
|
| Sorry, it doesn't sound too good.
|
| There are scores of different sands, gravels, grits dusts, etc. It's
| essential to install the right material at the correct depth, for the
| situation, local rainfall, subsoil, water table etc. Otherwise, it can
| be an expensive and fruitless waste of labour, materials and money.

You are making this out to be far harder than it is. Grass grows on
pretty well ANY substrate in the UK, and dunes turn rapidly into turf
if they don't dry out too badly.

Quarry dust might compact and clog, but all that is needed for a substrate
is to be about the right size (hence free-draining but small enough to
stop too much sand/soil falling though until the grass roots bind them)
and non-toxic to grass. Pretty well ANY gravel will fit the bill, as
will a lot of other materials.

Exactly how much drainage is needed for a lawn is a trickier question,
but 150 square metres isn't a huge area. From the posting, the subsoil
can be assumed to be nearly impervious, but a 6" fall (i.e. thickness of
gravel) in 12 metres is over 1% - masses. The real point is that you
(a) don't want it clogging and (b) don't want it to dry out too fast.

| The best advice you got in this thread was Rupert's recommendation.
| The Pavingexpert really is an expert in that field, he is an ex-urgler
| and gives clear, comprehensible, accurate advice free.

That page is good, but it is almost certainly overkill for this case.
As his related pages were with my paths/patio.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

ROFLFAO

Well there you go, loads of miss information followed on from my post! The problem is can you spot the wheat from the chaff?

By the way think laterally and recycle the concrete rather than skipping it!

In article ,
An Oasis writes:
|
| By the way think laterally and recycle the concrete rather than
| skipping it!

The problem with recycling concrete is that it is usable only for
hardcore, and needs breaking up to use as that. There is a huge
demand for hardcore, so that isn't a problem, but breaking it up
into small pieces is.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
An Oasis writes:
|
| By the way think laterally and recycle the concrete rather than
| skipping it!

The problem with recycling concrete is that it is usable only for
hardcore, and needs breaking up to use as that. There is a huge
demand for hardcore, so that isn't a problem, but breaking it up
into small pieces is.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I believe I am correct in saying, (I will soon be told by all net nannies
concerned if there is any doubt in anything I say) that there is a free
tipping facility for concrete on the Isle of Wight as there are crushers
which can re-use it.

I do most humby apologise to all net nannies, nit pickers and owners should
I be incorrect

Mike


--
------------------------------------------------
Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association
www.rnshipmates.co.uk

In article ,
"Mike" writes:
|
| I believe I am correct in saying, (I will soon be told by all net nannies
| concerned if there is any doubt in anything I say) that there is a free
| tipping facility for concrete on the Isle of Wight as there are crushers
| which can re-use it.
|
| I do most humby apologise to all net nannies, nit pickers and owners should
| I be incorrect

Since you are clearly asking for Strict Discipline in your English Lessons,
Mr Whiplash speaks to the Navy:

Your first comma should either have come after "say)" and not after "saying"
or have been omitted (ideally, the ", (" and ")" should both be dashes
" - "), you have misspelled "humbly" and "nit-pickers" is normally
hyphenated.

However, what you say about concrete disposal facilities sounds very
plausible.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
"Mike" writes:
[...]
| there is a free
| tipping facility for concrete on the Isle of Wight as there are crushers
| which can re-use it.
[...]

However, what you say about concrete disposal facilities sounds very
plausible.

It's very useful information, too: there's a reasonably unobstructed
route between the Isle of Wight and Northern Ireland. It's a personal
thing, I know, but even though it's not the prettiest route I usually
like to leave the Longships light _and_ Wolf Rock on the left during
the holiday rush. The OP should be able to pick up a small ship at the
hire shop. (On the whole, I don't think I'd use air transport, but it
shouldn't be dismissed out of hand: you always have to balance time
against cost.)

--
Mike.

An Oasis wrote:
[...]
By the way think laterally and recycle the concrete rather than
skipping it!

That's _lateral_ thinking?