Hello all,

I've been reading URG for a while now, after moving into a new house with a
large garden, I thought I'd better take an interest in gardening if I'm to
keep it all under control.

So, my question to the group is: there is an area of the garden that is
currently planted with various roses, it's a little overgrown but not too
bad. What we want to do is to turn this into a vegetable plot and
transplant the roses elswhere in the garden. Is this possible? will it be
successful? how am I best to go about such a task?

Your ideas and any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Ric.

"Ric@rdo" wrote in message
5.254...
Hello all,

I've been reading URG for a while now, after moving into a new house with
a
large garden, I thought I'd better take an interest in gardening if I'm to
keep it all under control.

So, my question to the group is: there is an area of the garden that is
currently planted with various roses, it's a little overgrown but not too
bad. What we want to do is to turn this into a vegetable plot and
transplant the roses elswhere in the garden. Is this possible? will it be
successful? how am I best to go about such a task?


Assuming these are "normal" size plants.


Wait until winter, or at least until all the foliage has died off,
so there's no water loss from the leaves.

Loosen the soil. As you want to use that part of the garden for vegetables
you're already half way there, as you'll presumably want to loosen up all
the soil really well with a fork in any case.

Take out as much root as possible with as little damage. Rather than simply
digging down a set distance around each plant with the spade - say 2ft and
hoping for the best try - loosening the soil close to the stem and locating
the roots with a hand fork if necessary and tracing them outwards.

Although some authorities recommend a thorough watering beforehand - unless
there's been a drought don't. Wet soil sticks to the rootball making it
heavier
and more awkward to handle - making it easier to damage the roots.
Whereas crumbly drier soil will fall away more easily showing the
full extent of the roots.

Ideally you should have the planting holes dug first, although
with the first one or two you probably won't know what to expect
and how big they'll need to be. Try holding the each plant in position
over the hole with the roots fanned out as afar as possible and feed
sieved loose soil through and around the roots thus filling the
hole. Avoiding air pockets under the root ball. When the hole is filled
start firming it in and afterwards give the plant a good watering.

If you've got any well rotted compost or similar there's no harm
in incorporating some in the planting hole. However wait till spring
before giving each plant a dressing of rose fertiliser. Any powdered
fertilisers added to the planting soil might cause a salt imbalance and
dry out the newly planted roots. And thus the plants.

Wait until there are signs of life next spring - by which time the roots
should have fully recovered, before doing any pruning, so as not to give
the plants too much of a shock at the one time. And very few
plants die simply through lack of pruning, for one or two
years at least.


michael adams

....











Your ideas and any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Ric.

Ric@rdo wrote:
Hello all,

I've been reading URG for a while now, after moving into a new house with a
large garden, I thought I'd better take an interest in gardening if I'm to
keep it all under control.

So, my question to the group is: there is an area of the garden that is
currently planted with various roses, it's a little overgrown but not too
bad. What we want to do is to turn this into a vegetable plot and
transplant the roses elswhere in the garden. Is this possible? will it be
successful? how am I best to go about such a task?

Your ideas and any advice will be greatly appreciated.



I moved some the other year - some with lots of earth around the roots
and some more or less yanked out of the ground. All have done ok, even
the ones that were sat out of soil at the back of the garden didn't
show bad signs until the hot weather came. Others have done better
since being moved. I'm no expert gardener and I was surprised how
resilient they were. YMMV

"michael adams" wrote in
:

Assuming these are "normal" size plants.


Wait until winter, or at least until all the foliage has died off,
so there's no water loss from the leaves.

Loosen the soil. As you want to use that part of the garden for
vegetables you're already half way there, as you'll presumably want to
loosen up all the soil really well with a fork in any case.

Take out as much root as possible with as little damage. Rather than
simply digging down a set distance around each plant with the spade -
say 2ft and hoping for the best try - loosening the soil close to the
stem and locating the roots with a hand fork if necessary and tracing
them outwards.

Although some authorities recommend a thorough watering beforehand -
unless there's been a drought don't. Wet soil sticks to the rootball
making it heavier
and more awkward to handle - making it easier to damage the roots.
Whereas crumbly drier soil will fall away more easily showing the
full extent of the roots.

Ideally you should have the planting holes dug first, although
with the first one or two you probably won't know what to expect
and how big they'll need to be. Try holding the each plant in position
over the hole with the roots fanned out as afar as possible and feed
sieved loose soil through and around the roots thus filling the
hole. Avoiding air pockets under the root ball. When the hole is
filled start firming it in and afterwards give the plant a good
watering.

If you've got any well rotted compost or similar there's no harm
in incorporating some in the planting hole. However wait till spring
before giving each plant a dressing of rose fertiliser. Any powdered
fertilisers added to the planting soil might cause a salt imbalance
and dry out the newly planted roots. And thus the plants.

Wait until there are signs of life next spring - by which time the
roots should have fully recovered, before doing any pruning, so as not
to give the plants too much of a shock at the one time. And very few
plants die simply through lack of pruning, for one or two
years at least.


michael adams

...


Well, that seems like sound and sensible advice, thanks Michael.

I think I'll be having a go at that this weekend... or would you really
leave it till later in the year? they are normal size plants I think,
they should be easy to remove as the soil seems to be in really good
condition, very light and well drained.

Thanks again...

Ric.

wrote in
oups.com:


I moved some the other year - some with lots of earth around the roots
and some more or less yanked out of the ground. All have done ok,
even the ones that were sat out of soil at the back of the garden
didn't show bad signs until the hot weather came. Others have done
better since being moved. I'm no expert gardener and I was surprised
how resilient they were. YMMV


Mmmm......... they sound like hardy little buggers don't they. I wanted to
get the job done as soon as possible but I've been advised to leave it till
winter. It's probably wise to wait until the things have stopped growing
but I really want to get the ground ready for some veggies and fruit.

What time of year did you transplant yours?

"Ric@rdo" wrote in message
5.254...
"michael adams" wrote in
:

Assuming these are "normal" size plants.


Wait until winter, or at least until all the foliage has died off,
so there's no water loss from the leaves.

Loosen the soil. As you want to use that part of the garden for
vegetables you're already half way there, as you'll presumably want to
loosen up all the soil really well with a fork in any case.

Take out as much root as possible with as little damage. Rather than
simply digging down a set distance around each plant with the spade -
say 2ft and hoping for the best try - loosening the soil close to the
stem and locating the roots with a hand fork if necessary and tracing
them outwards.

Although some authorities recommend a thorough watering beforehand -
unless there's been a drought don't. Wet soil sticks to the rootball
making it heavier
and more awkward to handle - making it easier to damage the roots.
Whereas crumbly drier soil will fall away more easily showing the
full extent of the roots.

Ideally you should have the planting holes dug first, although
with the first one or two you probably won't know what to expect
and how big they'll need to be. Try holding the each plant in position
over the hole with the roots fanned out as afar as possible and feed
sieved loose soil through and around the roots thus filling the
hole. Avoiding air pockets under the root ball. When the hole is
filled start firming it in and afterwards give the plant a good
watering.

If you've got any well rotted compost or similar there's no harm
in incorporating some in the planting hole. However wait till spring
before giving each plant a dressing of rose fertiliser. Any powdered
fertilisers added to the planting soil might cause a salt imbalance
and dry out the newly planted roots. And thus the plants.

Wait until there are signs of life next spring - by which time the
roots should have fully recovered, before doing any pruning, so as not
to give the plants too much of a shock at the one time. And very few
plants die simply through lack of pruning, for one or two
years at least.


michael adams

...


Well, that seems like sound and sensible advice, thanks Michael.

I think I'll be having a go at that this weekend... or would you really
leave it till later in the year? they are normal size plants I think,
they should be easy to remove as the soil seems to be in really good
condition, very light and well drained.

Thanks again...

Ric.

For "died off" in the first paragraph above, read "dormant". I was
thinking in more general terms, as of course healthy roses don't
actually drop their leaves in winter.

It's up to you, but the later in the year you leave it, the higher
your "absolute certainty" of success. In the winter the plant is
largely dormant and so less water is being taken up by the roots.
Hence disturbing the roots will be less of a shock.

Some people always prefer to err on the side of caution and so
they have no real way of knowing how much it's possible to get
away with. If moving roses during the growing season, then the
usual advice in addition is to have them out of the ground
for as short a time as possible - and\or spray the plants and
roots and enclose them in a bag, and then water them copiously
and shade from direct sunlight. Having never had to try it, I
can't really say if any of this is really necessary or not.

On the other hand if its a total disaster and they all die off
you can always replace them fairly easily in any case.

Or if you're prepared to wait, before moving them, just take loads
of cuttings, 6 to 8 inches long, stick them in a semi-shaded
sheltered spot and wait a year or two. There's plenty of info
on the web about taking cuttings.



michael adams

....

"michael adams" wrote in :


For "died off" in the first paragraph above, read "dormant". I was
thinking in more general terms, as of course healthy roses don't
actually drop their leaves in winter.

It's up to you, but the later in the year you leave it, the higher
your "absolute certainty" of success. In the winter the plant is
largely dormant and so less water is being taken up by the roots.
Hence disturbing the roots will be less of a shock.

Some people always prefer to err on the side of caution and so
they have no real way of knowing how much it's possible to get
away with. If moving roses during the growing season, then the
usual advice in addition is to have them out of the ground
for as short a time as possible - and\or spray the plants and
roots and enclose them in a bag, and then water them copiously
and shade from direct sunlight. Having never had to try it, I
can't really say if any of this is really necessary or not.

On the other hand if its a total disaster and they all die off
you can always replace them fairly easily in any case.

Or if you're prepared to wait, before moving them, just take loads
of cuttings, 6 to 8 inches long, stick them in a semi-shaded
sheltered spot and wait a year or two. There's plenty of info
on the web about taking cuttings.



michael adams

...


As you say, what have I got to loose? the previous owner was obviously very keen on roses
as I keep finding more in every corner I look!

I'm just so impatient to get a veggie patch on the go that I think I'm probably willing to
loose a few should things not work out right. (it's more my girlfriend wanting to keep
them anyhow!)

Thanks again for all of your invaluable advice, I think I should get my fork out!!

Ric.

Ric@rdo wrote:

Mmmm......... they sound like hardy little buggers don't they. I wanted to
get the job done as soon as possible but I've been advised to leave it till
winter. It's probably wise to wait until the things have stopped growing
but I really want to get the ground ready for some veggies and fruit.

What time of year did you transplant yours?

I did mine at different times of the year, some mid-summer. After I
moved those ones I cut them right back. Actually I cut one back and
the other not so much. This year the cut back one is still growing
strongly but the other looks a bit week after the first flush of
flowers. That one is in a different position now though so that could
have something to do with it.

My thinking was that I needed them out of the way so f-it, they either
survive or die. None of them were prize-winning plants or anything.

I did take some cuttings but none of them survived.