On 17/9/06 08:09, in article , "Malcolm"
wrote:


In article , Klara
writes
In message , Sacha
writes
Fluttering around the garden and one of the green houses yesterday, at
least 5 people saw a very large sky blue butterfly. By very large, it
was described as being about 5 or 6" across! Even allowing for the
exaggeration of memory and reducing that to 3 or 4", it's still pretty
big. Does anyone know what that might be or whether we have an escapee
from the Buckfastleigh butterfly farm? And how far can butterflies
roam, anyway? Any (polite) suggestions would be welcomed as to ID

Could they have mistaken a hawkmoth for a butterfly? They are pretty
big, and I think there is a blue one ...

There isn't one that is remotely "sky blue", the most on the wings of
any of them are some small bluish patches on the otherwise green
Oleander hawkmoth, while the Death's-head has a blue stripe on the body.

Having seen the elephant hawk moth caterpillar here, I do hope we see the
moth which appears to be the most lovely shade of pink.

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

"La Puce" wrote ...

Bob Hobden wrote:
I do hope you find what it is and where it's come from. We saw, two years
running on our old allotment site, a large jet black butterfly with white
dots along it's wind edges, and which flew unlike a normal butterfly but
fast and straight like a bird, but never managed to track the species
down
other than it wasn't European.

I'm sure you looked into it - but (I'm papillon crazy) have you looked
at the Peppered moth. It's characteristics is that the black varied
from jet black with white dots on the edges to grey and peppered with
white, hence the name. What was the underwings colour? (I'm hoping one
day to see a white plume moth - I'm keeping some bindweeds in the edges
for it as it feeds and lives. At least it's a reason to give to the
neighbours for keeping the bindweeds ....).

The nearest we got was a large "Great Banded Grayling" but that isn't jet
black and the white patches link up which they didn't in the one we saw. It
was the flight that caught my eye first, fast and straight, land and hang
about a bit sunning itself on the compost heap, then take off and gone, no
butterfly type wandering about at all.

--
Regards
Bob H
17mls W. of London.UK

"Bob Hobden" wrote
The nearest we got was a large "Great Banded Grayling" but that isn't
jet black and the white patches link up which they didn't in the one
we saw. It was the flight that caught my eye first, fast and straight,
land and hang about a bit sunning itself on the compost heap, then
take off and gone, no butterfly type wandering about at all.

Are you still ruling out Purple Emperor? It's said have a distinctive
fast, straight flight and your description does sound very like one with
the purple sheen not catching the light. Good photos he
http://www.ukwildlifeimages.org.uk/P...20Emperor.html

I'd forgo any big exotic butterflies in exchange for all our erstwhile
common local ones turning up again. They all seem very rare around here
this summer. My patches of Sedum spectabile used to be covered with
small tortoiseshells on sunny September days past, but today I only
spotted one solitary Red Admiral sitting on it.

--
Sue

On 17/9/06 08:09, in article ,
"Malcolm" wrote:

There isn't one that is remotely "sky blue", the most on the wings of
any of them are some small bluish patches on the otherwise green
Oleander hawkmoth, while the Death's-head has a blue stripe on the body.

What colour are convolvulus hawkmoths? In google they look everything
from blue to cerise to grey ...

In message , Sacha
writes

Having seen the elephant hawk moth caterpillar here, I do hope we see
the moth which appears to be the most lovely shade of pink.

They are SO beautiful! We had some one year - one of the too many when
we had no time for any gardening to speak of and so the greenhouse was
full of rosebay willowherb. It's almost worth while to keep a greenhouse
full of it just for the moths - and even the caterpillars ...

--
Klara, Gatwick basin

Klara wrote:
They are SO beautiful! We had some one year - one of the too many when
we had no time for any gardening to speak of and so the greenhouse was
full of rosebay willowherb. It's almost worth while to keep a greenhouse
full of it just for the moths - and even the caterpillars ...

The elephant hawkmoth is my screen saver - the orange and pink are my
two favorite colours and put together, woaw! ) When we moved to this
house I noticed the number of moths we had and I became really
interested. We have had lots of privets hawk, lime hawk, scallop hawk,
poplar hawk, lots of hermine of different sizes (and a buff one which
ended up in my youngest collection box) and the cinnabars and burnets,
my favourite ones. I made a design with pebbles and shiny stones set in
concrete of a moth by our front gate when we cut the side to make
another entrance a few years ago. I thought I had a picture of it but
can't find it. I'll take another picture of it )

Which suddenly makes me think: Bob! What about the Chimney Sweeper,
Odezia atrata ? Could that be the 'butterfly' you saw?!

In message , Malcolm
writes
What colour are convolvulus hawkmoths? In google they look everything
from blue to cerise to grey ...

Here's a book description:

"An extremely large moth with ash grey, variably marbled and
extensively streaked forewing. Male is quite heavily marked with
blackish streaks and bands, often with a broad, central cross-band.
Large female lacks extensive blackish markings."

OK?

Thanks! So much for Google images!


--
Klara, Gatwick basin

On 17/9/06 20:04, in article , "Klara"
wrote:


On 17/9/06 08:09, in article ,
"Malcolm" wrote:

There isn't one that is remotely "sky blue", the most on the wings of
any of them are some small bluish patches on the otherwise green
Oleander hawkmoth, while the Death's-head has a blue stripe on the body.

What colour are convolvulus hawkmoths? In google they look everything
from blue to cerise to grey ...

In message , Sacha
writes

Having seen the elephant hawk moth caterpillar here, I do hope we see
the moth which appears to be the most lovely shade of pink.

They are SO beautiful! We had some one year - one of the too many when
we had no time for any gardening to speak of and so the greenhouse was
full of rosebay willowherb. It's almost worth while to keep a greenhouse
full of it just for the moths - and even the caterpillars ...

There's plenty of that in the hedgerows and we allow a little to flourish in
out of the way bits of the garden so x fingers!

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

"Sue" wrote after...

"Bob Hobden" wrote
The nearest we got was a large "Great Banded Grayling" but that isn't
jet black and the white patches link up which they didn't in the one
we saw. It was the flight that caught my eye first, fast and straight,
land and hang about a bit sunning itself on the compost heap, then
take off and gone, no butterfly type wandering about at all.

Are you still ruling out Purple Emperor? It's said have a distinctive
fast, straight flight and your description does sound very like one with
the purple sheen not catching the light. Good photos he
http://www.ukwildlifeimages.org.uk/P...20Emperor.html

Yes, looked at that as it was suggested at the time, the one we saw was
black, totally black, with the white patches/large spots in a line around
the wings.

--
Regards
Bob H
17mls W. of London.UK

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 17/9/06 20:04, in article ,
"Klara"
wrote:


On 17/9/06 08:09, in article ,
"Malcolm" wrote:

There isn't one that is remotely "sky blue", the most on the wings of
any of them are some small bluish patches on the otherwise green
Oleander hawkmoth, while the Death's-head has a blue stripe on the
body.

What colour are convolvulus hawkmoths? In google they look everything
from blue to cerise to grey ...

In message , Sacha
writes

Having seen the elephant hawk moth caterpillar here, I do hope we see
the moth which appears to be the most lovely shade of pink.

They are SO beautiful! We had some one year - one of the too many when
we had no time for any gardening to speak of and so the greenhouse was
full of rosebay willowherb. It's almost worth while to keep a greenhouse
full of it just for the moths - and even the caterpillars ...

There's plenty of that in the hedgerows and we allow a little to flourish
in
out of the way bits of the garden so x fingers!

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

There is something coming up on inside out (BBC) about the re introduction
of a large blue butterfly (didn't catch the precise name) in the SW, I will
try and watch to see if that is a possibility.

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and
Lapageria rosea

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
...

snip

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

There is something coming up on inside out (BBC) about the re introduction
of a large blue butterfly (didn't catch the precise name) in the SW, I
will
try and watch to see if that is a possibility.

That is the name :-).
It is called The Large Blue.
What Sacha saw sounds over twice the size and 4 times as blue though.


--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and
Lapageria rosea

Sacha wrote:

On 16/9/06 15:33, in article ,
"Malcolm" wrote:


In article , Sacha
writes
On 16/9/06 15:17, in article , "Des
Higgins" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
...
Fluttering around the garden and one of the green houses yesterday, at
least
5 people saw a very large sky blue butterfly. By very large, it was
described as being about 5 or 6" across! Even allowing for the
exaggeration
of memory and reducing that to 3 or 4", it's still pretty big. Does
anyone
know what that might be or whether we have an escapee from the
Buckfastleigh
butterfly farm? And how far can butterflies roam, anyway? Any
(polite) suggestions would be welcomed as to ID.

I think that has to be an escapee.
I am not sure there is even anything that size and colour in NW Europe
never mind UK but that is from ancient memories of flicking through a
copy of Higgins and Riley (not relatives) and their Collins Guide.
Sounds impressive.


Thanks, Des. I think it must have escaped, somehow. I looked up the
'large blue' Maculinea arion, which has been reintroduced into Cornwall
but that is
only 4cm across, so doesn't seem to come anywhere near this. it would
be rather exciting if this one lays eggs in one of the green houses,
though!

Surely that depends on what the caterpillars feed on. They could be
voracious eaters of your favourite plants!!

I think we could safely sacrifice one or two for something so exotic!
I've often thought how lovely it would be to make safe the 'small double'
which
has a lot of things growing in there and release butterflies into it.
I'll keep working on Ray!

You've certainly got an escapee as its description doesn't fit anything
European, nor North American, as far as I know, but although
Buckfastleigh is an obvious source, it doesn't have to have come from
that close. Monach butterflies regularly cross the Atlantic, and Red
Admirals, Painted Ladies, Clouded Yellows, etc., reach us every year
from southern France.

Phone Buckfastleigh and ask them.

Good idea or, when we get back from holiday, we'll go down there and have
a look.


Well I can tell you pretty definately what you have seen.

It isn't Maculinea arion, the large blue. The flight season was over months
ago and despite its name is far far too small. It is just the largest
native blue butterfly.

It is pretty obviously a Morpho butterfly from South America. They are
popular in butterfly houses. They are large and brilliant iridescent sky
blue exactly as you describe.

It must be an escape.

Neil Jones
http://www.butterflyguy.com/

"Janet Baraclough" wrote
We've had an exceptional year for butterflies, the best in decades .
The hebes inula and buddleias have had (literally) dozens feeding
once, peacocks, red admirals, totoiseshells and painted ladie and some
orangetips and large whites. On the hill I've seen lots of cinnabar
moths, for the first time since the 70's. In my childhood we used to
see a lot of those on rural verges (and their handsome caterpillars).

We've seen hummingbird hawkmoths much more in recent summers,
but the main insects I've got a lot more of are ants, vine weevils and
lily beetle. :-/

My other half has been saying he'd like a holiday in Scotland. We might
have to follow the butterflies up there another year if they refuse to
stick around here.

--
Sue