"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"Alan Holmes" writes:
|
| But the problem is, that most nuclear stations have breeder reactors,
if
| they used reactors which used the radioactive energy there would be no
| waste!

That is not so, though it would help a great deal. It would enable the
reuse of much of the plutonium, which is a doubleplus ungood element.
But it would not resolve the problem of dealing with the contaminated
material, some of which contains an ungodly cocktail of nucleotides.
Far too many of the claims of how things could be done assume no problems
and no errors.

They could load it on space ships, and send it out into space, perhaps on
the moon where it wouldn't worry us at all, or to the sun.

Alan

In article ,
"Alan Holmes" writes:
|
| Far too many of the claims of how things could be done assume no problems
| and no errors.
|
| They could load it on space ships, and send it out into space, perhaps on
| the moon where it wouldn't worry us at all, or to the sun.

Indeed. Do you see the relevance of my previous remark?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 18/1/07 17:41, in article
, "The Minister"
wrote:

La Puce wrote:
Yes, by 10 years too early! 10 years!! Do you realise? And don't say
'whatever cause'. You know why!! We must stop CO2 emmissions
completely.

that would be difficult cuting down is possible but not stopped
completely

Everyone is responsible. Cheap flights to France, spain

Yup true but do we walk there?

Demand decent, clean and affordable public transport

yeah right on

. Share your
car with others.

too right but what does yer double decker red bus drive on?? let me
guess honey, biodegradeable fuel, right?

Hasn't Brown slapped a tax on biodiesel, or did I dream that?

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)


Yes you are quite right -he increased the tax on Bio which effectively
knackered the reprocessing of used Vegetable oils,however at a later date he
reduced the tax a bit on Bio.

Hi Helene (?)

Well... and I thought I was a radical!

Even though we recycle every single thing we can, live in a small house,
hardly ever drive anywehere, switch off the lights everytime we leave the
room, don't leave the telly on standby, refuse carrier bags at Asda - and
grow all our own produce. a wake up call such as yours does make me think
what more 'I' can do... and, where some might be offended, I genuinely thank
you for that.

I say 'whatever cause' as a rather cowardly cop-out on the forum as although
we 'know' what the cause is, I could not quote actual facts and figures to
back up my statement here - I'm not scientific - just a down to earth,
country person who has for decades (I am 52) grieved and become more and
more heartbroken over natural habitat loss, deforestation etc. .... and
nowadays the thought that our 'RECYCLED' plastic milk containers are being
shipped to, and sorted in China!

Very best wishes. We have a lot in common.

Keith




"La Puce" wrote in message
ups.com...

Keith (Dorset) wrote:
I reckon I've been pretty much in touch with the natural world all my
life,
and I'm certain that global warming, from whatever cause, is hitting
hard,
and importantly, very much faster than many researchers anticipated.

Yes, by 10 years too early! 10 years!! Do you realise? And don't say
'whatever cause'. You know why!! We must stop CO2 emmissions
completely. Everyone is responsible. Cheap flights to France, spain
etc. should be banned. Cheap plastic crap imports from China for our
Pound Stretchers shops should be all banned. All supermarket should
stop providing plastic bags. The car industry should be halted. We
should stop all imports from South America (now the biggest beef
provider in Europe as the country cut down trees, 'the world's lungs'
for pastures) and all imports from China. We should demand not to see
asparagus from Peru nor cabbages from Poland in our local shops. Stop
buying these products and local farmers will then have an outlet,
again. Demand decent, clean and affordable public transport. Share your
car with others. Take a boat or train but stop flying! Don't buy
imports but local to UK clothing/shoes. Don't use chemicals, none
whatesoever, in your garden and at home. Buy organic produce only. By
ethical goods, knowing that the extra 10p you spend on a produce will
help the producer carry on producing organically. Buy your produce
locally .... and keep an eye on that big glacier above England. When
that melts, we're going to get really cold again.

It doesn't take a degree in climateology for anyone with their eyes open
to
realise what real problems we'll all face in the very near future.

We are facing them now or we wouldn't be talking about them. Ecology
and environmentalism was in the 60s called a hoax to sink the large
manufactures of plastic, cloth, cars and anything relaying on fossil
fuel.

So the suited, townie politicians better soon get their priorities right:
forget about foreign holidays and fancy 'upmarket' cars... and get back
to
the real world - now.

Just look at Bush versus Gore, 48% v 49% of the votes at the american
elections. How can you ask for priorities when something like this
happens? It's up to every single individual to make a change, a small
one every month. You don't need to talk about it, just do it and others
will follow. Too many people think that they, by themselves, won't make
a difference. That is not true. I think you would score pretty high in
your energy use footprint Keith! You even think your neighbours could
do something about it. Why don't you talk to them?! Already, I can
remember the first time I used a low energy bulb - look around you now,
everybody uses them!

(rant over.. aah, that's better)

Go ahead Keith, it's good to talk )

In article , says...

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"Alan Holmes" writes:
|
| But the problem is, that most nuclear stations have breeder reactors,
if
| they used reactors which used the radioactive energy there would be no
| waste!

That is not so, though it would help a great deal. It would enable the
reuse of much of the plutonium, which is a doubleplus ungood element.
But it would not resolve the problem of dealing with the contaminated
material, some of which contains an ungodly cocktail of nucleotides.
Far too many of the claims of how things could be done assume no problems
and no errors.

They could load it on space ships, and send it out into space, perhaps on
the moon where it wouldn't worry us at all, or to the sun.

Alan

Icouldn't feel happy with that solution while significant numbers of rockets
burn on the launch pad. Not just well publicised challenger and apollos
with loss of life but a fair number of arriannes which only have expensive
electrics on board :-(

Gill M

On 18/1/07 19:14, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| While it makes me nervous because of its sheer power, I'm not sure we have
a
| choice that is realistic, do we? Wind farms etc. are all well and good in
| concept but to produce *enough* for the whole country, not isolated
pockets?
| I doubt it.

In the UK, yes, actually. But whether the environmental damage would be
acceptable is another matter. The one technology that is essentially
useless for the UK is solar power - solar heating is feasible, though,
at least in summer.

| We went to look round Cap de la Hague once and were given trout for lunch.
| Someone in our party remarked that they'd been goldfish that morning. ;-)

Well, you know what they say about swimming off Lancashire? You
positively glow afterwards ....


Ecco!

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

On 18/1/07 20:04, in article , "Rupert (W.Yorkshire)"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 18/1/07 17:41, in article
, "The Minister"
wrote:

La Puce wrote:
Yes, by 10 years too early! 10 years!! Do you realise? And don't say
'whatever cause'. You know why!! We must stop CO2 emmissions
completely.

that would be difficult cuting down is possible but not stopped
completely

Everyone is responsible. Cheap flights to France, spain

Yup true but do we walk there?

Demand decent, clean and affordable public transport

yeah right on

. Share your
car with others.

too right but what does yer double decker red bus drive on?? let me
guess honey, biodegradeable fuel, right?

Hasn't Brown slapped a tax on biodiesel, or did I dream that?

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)


Yes you are quite right -he increased the tax on Bio which effectively
knackered the reprocessing of used Vegetable oils,however at a later date he
reduced the tax a bit on Bio.


Oh lord, Peter and Paul...!

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

JennyC wrote:

"Martin" wrote
Use nuclear energy to generate electricity.

With you on that one Martin :~)

I'd thought you'd prefer windmills .... I mean, wind energy ;o)

Keith (Dorset) wrote:

Well... and I thought I was a radical!

You're not alone. Honest. There's millions of 'us' and growing by the
second. We're currently involved with the Carbon Trust
http://www.cooperatives-uk.coop/live/cme1122.htm and developed a
'toolkit' to measure carbon reduction. Even yesterday when Emerge
Recycling came to pick up our bags from our office to be recycled, I
had made a pile of the polystyrene boxes that I was going to use at
home to sow seeds in. The woman ask me if she could have them for ....
planting her seeds in!! It's amazing how many people have started
recycling and finding ways of re-using stuff )

Even though we recycle every single thing we can, live in a small house,
hardly ever drive anywehere, switch off the lights everytime we leave the
room, don't leave the telly on standby, refuse carrier bags at Asda - and
grow all our own produce. a wake up call such as yours does make me think
what more 'I' can do... and, where some might be offended, I genuinely thank
you for that.

It's my pleasure. This Christmas, wind turbines in the UK generated
sufficient electricity to meet the needs of over a million households
(BWEA source). It's the fastest growing energy source world wide, with
an average annual growth rate of 23% over the last 15 years. I think
it's something to celebrate )

I say 'whatever cause' as a rather cowardly cop-out on the forum as although
we 'know' what the cause is, I could not quote actual facts and figures to
back up my statement here - I'm not scientific - just a down to earth,
country person who has for decades (I am 52) grieved and become more and
more heartbroken over natural habitat loss, deforestation etc. .... and
nowadays the thought that our 'RECYCLED' plastic milk containers are being
shipped to, and sorted in China!

For every time you feel you can't do more than you already do - think
to offset your 'pollution' and give to organisations working in
environment, climate change etc. When my aunt was dying last year, I
had to go and say goodbye to her. I had to take a plane. (I couldn't
return for the funeral because I would have had to take another 3 days
off to travel by train for 13 hours). I offset my 'pollution' by giving
to an environmental group. If we could all do this - just think what
could happen. We could even contemplate 'let's systems' sooner than we
think. As I said ... you're not alone ;o)

http://www.co2balance.com/
http://www.letslinkuk.org/

Very best wishes. We have a lot in common.

Do you have an allotment, or acres of land with a house in the middle
with a guest room facing East? ;o)

wrote:
Nick Maclaren wrote:
| Use nuclear energy to generate electricity.

Perhaps. With the current bunch of bureaucrats in charge of safety,
especially long-term safety, I am not convinced.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

The French use nuclear energy Nick and I don't see any problems with
long term safety. IMHO, nuclear energy has to be the way forward.

Radioactive waste from a storage site at Soulaine in eastern France,
where containment problems were reported in recent weeks, could end up
in grapes used to make champagne as it penetrates into groundwater.
Water leakage had caused fissures in the site's storage cells, French
nuclear safety agency DGSNR said last month. Low-level radioactivity
has already been found in groundwater 10km from Champagne vineyards,
Greenpeace said. Once full, the Soulaine nuclear dump will be among the
world's biggest. The site accommodates waste from French energy
producers Electricite de France (EdF) and AREVA, taking in the output
of France's nuclear power stations that provide 90% of the country's
electricity.

But waste from abroad, including Germany, Belgium, Switzerland and
Japan, is also accepted and which is illegal under French law. Another
radioactive waste site is planned in the Champagne region at Bure, this
time for highest level radioactive waste. Problems with radioactivity
leaking into groundwater were also recently reported at the La Hague
nuclear waste site in Normandy, where dairy farmers felt the effects of
the contamination.

Wine producers in another famous French wine-growing region - the Rhone
valley -prevented the construction of a high level radioactive waste
storage site with protests over the contamination threat to their
vineyards.

As for England ... here is the list of another 12 shortlisted possible
waste site (out of the 252 already in England) .
Dounreay, Caithness, Scotland
Altnabreac, Caithness, Scotland
Fuday, Western Isles, Scotland
Sandray, Western Isles, Scotland
Offshore - West (serviced by Hunterston Port)
Bradwell, Essex
Potton Island, Essex
Killingholme, South Humberside
Offshore - East (serviced by Redcar Port)
Sellafield, Cumbria (two locations)
Stanford, Norfolk

If you don't want this to happen in your backyard - don't allow it in
someone else's. I say this, not Greenpeace ;o)

Hi,

That sounds a bit like us, but not exactly - not 'acres' of land ! but a
larger garden than most here - and two rooms upstairs that face east.

Contact me by private email, tell me who you are, and you are more than
welcome for coffee if you are local / visiting.

Best wishes,

Keith



"La Puce" wrote in message
oups.com...

Keith (Dorset) wrote:

Well... and I thought I was a radical!

You're not alone. Honest. There's millions of 'us' and growing by the
second. We're currently involved with the Carbon Trust
http://www.cooperatives-uk.coop/live/cme1122.htm and developed a
'toolkit' to measure carbon reduction. Even yesterday when Emerge
Recycling came to pick up our bags from our office to be recycled, I
had made a pile of the polystyrene boxes that I was going to use at
home to sow seeds in. The woman ask me if she could have them for ....
planting her seeds in!! It's amazing how many people have started
recycling and finding ways of re-using stuff )

Even though we recycle every single thing we can, live in a small house,
hardly ever drive anywehere, switch off the lights everytime we leave the
room, don't leave the telly on standby, refuse carrier bags at Asda - and
grow all our own produce. a wake up call such as yours does make me think
what more 'I' can do... and, where some might be offended, I genuinely
thank
you for that.

It's my pleasure. This Christmas, wind turbines in the UK generated
sufficient electricity to meet the needs of over a million households
(BWEA source). It's the fastest growing energy source world wide, with
an average annual growth rate of 23% over the last 15 years. I think
it's something to celebrate )

I say 'whatever cause' as a rather cowardly cop-out on the forum as
although
we 'know' what the cause is, I could not quote actual facts and figures
to
back up my statement here - I'm not scientific - just a down to earth,
country person who has for decades (I am 52) grieved and become more and
more heartbroken over natural habitat loss, deforestation etc. .... and
nowadays the thought that our 'RECYCLED' plastic milk containers are
being
shipped to, and sorted in China!

For every time you feel you can't do more than you already do - think
to offset your 'pollution' and give to organisations working in
environment, climate change etc. When my aunt was dying last year, I
had to go and say goodbye to her. I had to take a plane. (I couldn't
return for the funeral because I would have had to take another 3 days
off to travel by train for 13 hours). I offset my 'pollution' by giving
to an environmental group. If we could all do this - just think what
could happen. We could even contemplate 'let's systems' sooner than we
think. As I said ... you're not alone ;o)

http://www.co2balance.com/
http://www.letslinkuk.org/

Very best wishes. We have a lot in common.

Do you have an allotment, or acres of land with a house in the middle
with a guest room facing East? ;o)

In article ,
Martin writes:
| On 19 Jan 2007 03:04:31 -0800, "La Puce" wrote:
|
| It's my pleasure. This Christmas, wind turbines in the UK generated
| sufficient electricity to meet the needs of over a million households
| (BWEA source). It's the fastest growing energy source world wide, with
| an average annual growth rate of 23% over the last 15 years. I think
| it's something to celebrate )
|
| I think you shouldn;t believe the crap the salesmen publish.
|
| Wait until the summer when there isn't enough wind for weeks.

In the UK? Don't be ridiculous. They are designed to start generating
at quite low speeds, and only the south east has calm conditions for
very long. Look at the statistics.

I have seen a couple of respectable papers on this, and (if I recall)
they indicated that calm conditions over the whole UK can be expected
for a day or so every 50 years. They also indicated that it would be
rare for the system as a whole to drop below (if I recall) 30% of
capacity. Yes, that means over-engineering by a factor of 3 and having
alternative methods (such as pumped water, gas-fired or whatever).

And then there are wave and tide generators, which are also viable,
too. Again, not without downsides, but with a lot of advantages.

| How much has been generated in the last 8 days?

Dunno. The figures would be interesting.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Martin wrote:
I think you shouldn;t believe the crap the salesmen publish.

I don't listen to the 'salesmen' but get involved with research
companies and then apply our findings in our projects. We are indeed a
long way from using renewable energy in our schemes, but we're still
young. We employ passionate, hard working and reputable people. We're
part of a huge network, have partners all around the world. I'm sure we
can do without the 'salesmen' whatever you mean by this )

Wait until the summer when there isn't enough wind for weeks.

The UK is the windiest country in Europe, so we have a massive resource
waiting to be used. And in the future, all our electricity could come
from a mix of complementary renewable sources - balancing wind power
with wave, tidal, solar and biomass.

No power stations are able to operate all the time without stopping.
Many so-called reliable sources such as nuclear plants suffer from
unexpected 'outages' when reactors must be shut down, often at short
notice, for essential safety maintenance. Unreliability of this kind is
far harder to deal with than the intermittency of wind power, as the
amounts of electricity involved are generally much higher. By
comparison the variation in output from wind farms distributed around
the country is scarcely noticeable. A great advantage of wind power is
that the available wind resource is much greater during the colder
months of the year, when energy demand is at its highest. And the wind
will never stop blowing everywhere in the UK at once!

How much has been generated in the last 8 days?

Dunno. We could never rely on wind turbines alone to provide for all
our electricity needs. But there are storage technologies we can use,
such as pumped storage hydro power schemes (where water is pumped
up-hill, thus acting like large batteries for the electricity system).
Hydrogen offers a potential way of storing electricity from wind power.
Excess wind power can be used to produce hydrogen through electrolysis,
and then hydrogen can be turned back into electricity using a fuel
cell, as and when it is needed.

Did you have your car scrapped?

No. I run on biodiesel and looking to get a tuc tuc which will run on
CNG. What about you Martin? How do you do your bit?

Martin wrote:
passed on from Greenpeace?

It's a long time since I was involved with Greenpeace - it all started
with the Rainbow warrior. These were the days. I even remember using my
first born at 2 yrs of age to stick greenpeace stickers on people bums
in the streets. They couldn't resist such a cute smile when they
discovered him standing there with his money box. We wracked in the
money like you wouldn't beleive ;o)

But seriously, why are you so ... err... wrong about all this? Can't
you read? Can't you hear? Can't you feel?

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Martin writes:
| On 19 Jan 2007 03:04:31 -0800, "La Puce" wrote:
|
| It's my pleasure. This Christmas, wind turbines in the UK generated
| sufficient electricity to meet the needs of over a million households
| (BWEA source). It's the fastest growing energy source world wide, with
| an average annual growth rate of 23% over the last 15 years. I think
| it's something to celebrate )
|
| I think you shouldn;t believe the crap the salesmen publish.
|
| Wait until the summer when there isn't enough wind for weeks.

In the UK? Don't be ridiculous. They are designed to start generating
at quite low speeds, and only the south east has calm conditions for
very long. Look at the statistics.

I have seen a couple of respectable papers on this, and (if I recall)
they indicated that calm conditions over the whole UK can be expected
for a day or so every 50 years. They also indicated that it would be
rare for the system as a whole to drop below (if I recall) 30% of
capacity. Yes, that means over-engineering by a factor of 3 and having
alternative methods (such as pumped water, gas-fired or whatever).

And then there are wave and tide generators, which are also viable,
too. Again, not without downsides, but with a lot of advantages.

| How much has been generated in the last 8 days?

Dunno. The figures would be interesting.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Wind turbines like modern ships have variable pitch props so will have
reduced pitch before winds reached gale force. the effect is that they start
contributing at relatively low wind speeds and achieve maximum output in
conditions we would describe as breezy rather than gale force. the main
issue seems to be their cost v power output, its an argument I can not see
as if you made other sources remove all carbon they would be worse I am
sure.
I get great pleasure in watching the farmers harvesting bulbs, spuds or
watching sheep grazing under the spinning blades and knowing they are
helping with Cornwall's energy consumption :~)
--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and
Lapageria rosea