I wonder if anyone who has any experience with elder trees could
kindly give me some advice? Unfortunately, my botanical and
horticultural knowledge is very poor, and my neighbour has asked that
I help her cut down a trio of 15ft high elder trees that she says is
killing a neighbouring cherry tree (by taking up all the nutrients) in
a small area that we share with a number of houses. Is this a common
problem with elder trees, and is it necessary to cut down them down,
or is there an alternative solution? I am, quite happy to cut them
down, but since its not a minor operation, I thought I should check
first.

Thank you.

wrote in message
ups.com...
I wonder if anyone who has any experience with elder trees could
kindly give me some advice? Unfortunately, my botanical and
horticultural knowledge is very poor, and my neighbour has asked that
I help her cut down a trio of 15ft high elder trees that she says is
killing a neighbouring cherry tree (by taking up all the nutrients) in
a small area that we share with a number of houses. Is this a common
problem with elder trees, and is it necessary to cut down them down,
or is there an alternative solution? I am, quite happy to cut them
down, but since its not a minor operation, I thought I should check
first.

Thank you.


Unless you remove or kill the roots it will quickly put up new shoots and
grow again and need trimming back every year. However the shoots are soft so
this is not difficult. A more permanent solution would mean digging up the
roots or using some stump killer after cutting it down.

David.

writes
I wonder if anyone who has any experience with elder trees could
kindly give me some advice? Unfortunately, my botanical and
horticultural knowledge is very poor, and my neighbour has asked that
I help her cut down a trio of 15ft high elder trees that she says is
killing a neighbouring cherry tree (by taking up all the nutrients) in
a small area that we share with a number of houses. Is this a common
problem with elder trees, and is it necessary to cut down them down,
or is there an alternative solution? I am, quite happy to cut them
down, but since its not a minor operation, I thought I should check
first.

4 trees in a small area are going to compete for water, light and
nutrients - no matter what species they are. If one tree is losing out
in the competition and that tree is important to you, then it makes
sense to remove some of the competitors. How close together are these
trees?

Neither cherry nor elderberry are particularly long-lived.

If it's a shared area, then the decision of which tree should be removed
should be reached by mutual agreement. If you all decide the cherry is
the most important, you could start by taking out just one of the
elderberries and see if that improves matters. Or you could cut them
back severely, especially if they are already throwing new branches from
the bottom.

You should also check that the cherry is not diseased - it would be
irritating to remove all the elderberries only to have the cherry tree
die anyway.
--
Kay

wrote in message
ups.com...
I wonder if anyone who has any experience with elder trees could
kindly give me some advice? Unfortunately, my botanical and
horticultural knowledge is very poor, and my neighbour has asked that
I help her cut down a trio of 15ft high elder trees that she says is
killing a neighbouring cherry tree (by taking up all the nutrients) in
a small area that we share with a number of houses. Is this a common
problem with elder trees, and is it necessary to cut down them down,
or is there an alternative solution? I am, quite happy to cut them
down, but since its not a minor operation, I thought I should check
first.

Thank you.

It could be said that the cherry tree is taking nutrients from the elder :-)

I like elder, the flowers and fruit make lovely drinks and it keeps away
witches - there aren't any in our street.

Well, some would disagree but ...

Elder does tend to be invasive, it seeds easily and grows anywhere and for
some reason it has a bad (false) reputation with many people. I doubt that
your neighbour's tree is being killed by elder but if she wants them cutting
down I hope she's paying for it. They'll likely grow somewhere else, from
seed. It's hard to be without them. They're quite short lived anyway - in my
experience.

Mary
Mary

K wrote:
writes
I wonder if anyone who has any experience with elder trees could
kindly give me some advice? Unfortunately, my botanical and
horticultural knowledge is very poor, and my neighbour has asked that
I help her cut down a trio of 15ft high elder trees that she says is
killing a neighbouring cherry tree (by taking up all the nutrients) in
a small area that we share with a number of houses. Is this a common
problem with elder trees, and is it necessary to cut down them down,
or is there an alternative solution? I am, quite happy to cut them
down, but since its not a minor operation, I thought I should check
first.

4 trees in a small area are going to compete for water, light and
nutrients - no matter what species they are. If one tree is losing out
in the competition and that tree is important to you, then it makes
sense to remove some of the competitors. How close together are these
trees?

Neither cherry nor elderberry are particularly long-lived.

If it's a shared area, then the decision of which tree should be removed
should be reached by mutual agreement. If you all decide the cherry is
the most important, you could start by taking out just one of the
elderberries and see if that improves matters. Or you could cut them
back severely, especially if they are already throwing new branches from
the bottom.

You should also check that the cherry is not diseased - it would be
irritating to remove all the elderberries only to have the cherry tree
die anyway.
First ensure that they do not have a preservation order on them, it may
prove expensive for you if there is. As previously written they sprout
like mad from their stumps. I have a number taken down (electricity
board insisted), as they could not access with a root grinder they made
fairly deep cuts vertically down the stumps then poured a killer (don't
know what) over the stumps. that has killed them and not affected the
land around.

Broadback writes
K wrote:
First ensure that they do not have a preservation order on them, it may
prove expensive for you if there is. As previously written they sprout
like mad from their stumps. I have a number taken down (electricity
board insisted), as they could not access with a root grinder they made
fairly deep cuts vertically down the stumps then poured a killer (don't
know what) over the stumps. that has killed them and not affected the
land around.

Has anyone ever put a preservation order on an elder? a) they don't live
long b) they don't grow large
--
Kay

"K" wrote in message
...
Broadback writes
K wrote:
First ensure that they do not have a preservation order on them, it may
prove expensive for you if there is. As previously written they sprout
like mad from their stumps. I have a number taken down (electricity board
insisted), as they could not access with a root grinder they made fairly
deep cuts vertically down the stumps then poured a killer (don't know
what) over the stumps. that has killed them and not affected the land
around.

Has anyone ever put a preservation order on an elder? a) they don't live
long b) they don't grow large
--
Kay

I doubt it - not only are your points valid, they're very common.

We've taken them down, there was a forest of them in our garden once. I'm
still cutting down seedlings.

There is the point that we're just outside a conservation area, if we were
across the street we'd have to have permission to cut any tree down.

Mary

On 18 Sep, 12:01, "Mary Fisher" wrote:
I like elder, the flowers and fruit make lovely drinks and it keeps away
witches - there aren't any in our street.

The other day I fell in love with a black elder - can one still eat
the flowers and use it as the ordinary white flower elder?

wrote in message
ups.com...
On 18 Sep, 12:01, "Mary Fisher" wrote:
I like elder, the flowers and fruit make lovely drinks and it keeps away
witches - there aren't any in our street.

The other day I fell in love with a black elder - can one still eat
the flowers and use it as the ordinary white flower elder?

I'd say so - if it's not on a roadside.

Mary

Mary Fisher writes

I doubt it - not only are your points valid, they're very common.

We've taken them down, there was a forest of them in our garden once. I'm
still cutting down seedlings.

There is the point that we're just outside a conservation area, if we were
across the street we'd have to have permission to cut any tree down.

Any tree over a certain size, surely? My mother used to grow a deodar
cedar until just before it got to the critical size, then remove it and
replace it with a younger one. But that was 40 years ago and things may
have changed
--
Kay

"K" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher writes

I doubt it - not only are your points valid, they're very common.

We've taken them down, there was a forest of them in our garden once. I'm
still cutting down seedlings.

There is the point that we're just outside a conservation area, if we were
across the street we'd have to have permission to cut any tree down.

Any tree over a certain size, surely? My mother used to grow a deodar
cedar until just before it got to the critical size, then remove it and
replace it with a younger one. But that was 40 years ago and things may
have changed

I have several trees I would like to cut down but am only allowed to touch
those less than 75mm dia at 1mtr high. Anything bigger I have to apply for
planning permission, or wait for a storm ;-) That's the problem with being
in a conservation area. Not only that but the application requires a plan
showing every tree including its type, girth, height and spread. Trouble is
I counted 140 trees over the 75mm rule in our garden. That amounts to some
plan.


Mike

Thank you all for your helpful input. Your responses and advice are a
lot more bountiful that I was expecting - especially so soon after
posting! (I am new to newsgroups).

In answer to Kay's question, there are actually 5 trees within a
narrow strip (approximately 15ft x 2ft). Firstly a mature walnut tree
which is thriving. Adjacent to them are the three elder trees, and
finally the cherry tree. Unfortunately, I'm not experienced, and have
not lived at our home long enough, to tell how old these trees are,
but it looks like the elder trees are much younger than the cherry and
the walnut. When I first moved in a few years ago, I can't say I
remember the elder, but I certainly do remember the walnut and the
cherry. Now that my neighbour has pointed out the issue, I do realise
that the cherry is bearing significantly less fruit than when I first
moved in. Is it also possible that the walnut tree is having a
detrimental affect on the cherry? In terms of size and stature, the
walnut and cherry certainly overshadow the elder.

I think that the preference to remove the elder rather than the cherry
is probably due to the precendence it takes in maturity and
establishment. My neighbour has lived at our location much longer
than me, and is probably more attached to the cherry, so the request
to remove the elder is not necessarily based on which type of tree is
more likeable. We do get on well with our neighbours, and I am happy
to comply.

Could anyone advise me about how I find out whether there is a
preservation order? I only remember a mention of the fact that I am
in part or possibly wholly responsible for the maintenance of this
strip of land during the conveyancing process before I moved in. I
should have done my homework better! Perhaps I could just dig up some
photos taken after we moved in to try to see if the elder were so
established.

If the elder is able to rejuvenate so well, even if I cut down to the
stumps, then does this mean that if I do remove the main trunks
without further using a killer, and the elder was not actually
responsible for the cherry's demise, then we would still be in a
position where the elder would grow back, and the damage would not be
irrevocable?

Thank you all again,

Mark

"K" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher writes

....

There is the point that we're just outside a conservation area, if we were
across the street we'd have to have permission to cut any tree down.

Any tree over a certain size, surely?

I don't know. We've cut down a huge ash, a large white poplar, two very tall
Lombardy poplars and a rampant eucalyptus (all of which are very unsuitable
for a small garden) without asking for permission. Perhaps this confession
will put my head on the block :-)

Then there's the leylandi ... I don't want to cut that because it provides
shelter and dry Earth for dust baths for the hens and is home to very many
wild birds. An avian skyscraper apartment block!

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:
"K" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher writes

...

There is the point that we're just outside a conservation area, if
we were across the street we'd have to have permission to cut any
tree down.
Any tree over a certain size, surely?

I don't know. We've cut down a huge ash, a large white poplar, two
very tall Lombardy poplars and a rampant eucalyptus (all of which are
very unsuitable for a small garden) without asking for permission.
Perhaps this confession will put my head on the block :-)

Then there's the leylandi ... I don't want to cut that because it
provides shelter and dry Earth for dust baths for the hens and is
home to very many wild birds. An avian skyscraper apartment block!

lol - I know what you mean there, our next door neighbour's conifer is a
sparrow condo (I counted approx 20 of them on the lawn when I threw out some
bread recently!)

writes

In answer to Kay's question, there are actually 5 trees within a
narrow strip (approximately 15ft x 2ft). Firstly a mature walnut tree
which is thriving. Adjacent to them are the three elder trees, and
finally the cherry tree. Unfortunately, I'm not experienced, and have
not lived at our home long enough, to tell how old these trees are,
but it looks like the elder trees are much younger than the cherry and
the walnut. When I first moved in a few years ago, I can't say I
remember the elder, but I certainly do remember the walnut and the
cherry. Now that my neighbour has pointed out the issue, I do realise
that the cherry is bearing significantly less fruit than when I first
moved in. Is it also possible that the walnut tree is having a
detrimental affect on the cherry? In terms of size and stature, the
walnut and cherry certainly overshadow the elder.

In that case, I wouldn't have thought the elder was interfering much
with the cherry (and, conversely, that removing it will do much to
improve the situation). But I may be wrong.

How big is the cherry? - ie what diameter is its trunk? If its trunk is
more than 12 inches diameter, it may well be starting its terminal
decline.

I think that the preference to remove the elder rather than the cherry
is probably due to the precendence it takes in maturity and
establishment. My neighbour has lived at our location much longer
than me, and is probably more attached to the cherry, so the request
to remove the elder is not necessarily based on which type of tree is
more likeable. We do get on well with our neighbours, and I am happy
to comply.

Are you two the only neighbours involved, or are there other opinions to
canvass?

Could anyone advise me about how I find out whether there is a
preservation order?

Look on your local council website, and, if that doesn't throw up
anything, contact the council tree preservation officer.


If the elder is able to rejuvenate so well, even if I cut down to the
stumps, then does this mean that if I do remove the main trunks
without further using a killer, and the elder was not actually
responsible for the cherry's demise, then we would still be in a
position where the elder would grow back, and the damage would not be
irrevocable?

Probably but not definitely.

You could of course replace it with something else, eg one of the
ornamental elders (purple leaved, or cut-leaved)



--
Kay