I have never taken much notice of bamboos or tall grasses I'm afraid so
I wonder if anyone can help me decide which bamboos or grasses would
make an effective screen in pots at the end of my son's small garden?
Don't need anything too dense just enough to hide the brambles in the
garden behind.

I'd prefer to keep them in pots now that I've pea shingled the area.
I have looked up Phyllostacus etc but there seems to be conflicting
advice about those that are thugs and those that will stay in pots
happily for a year or two.

Height doesn't need to be more than 5 foot when mature if that makes for
a wider choice.

Janet


--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

"Janet Tweedy" wrote in message
...

I have never taken much notice of bamboos or tall grasses I'm afraid so
I wonder if anyone can help me decide which bamboos or grasses would
make an effective screen in pots at the end of my son's small garden?
Don't need anything too dense just enough to hide the brambles in the
garden behind.

I'd prefer to keep them in pots now that I've pea shingled the area.

I'd never put bamboo in my garden except in pots raised up so I could see
whats happening underneath! Sure it looks nice but it spreads like anything
and is a pain to control. We had some in our last garden and it spread 10
meters along a border down the back of other shrubs, under a concrete path
and up the other side.

In article , CWatters
writes

I'd never put bamboo in my garden except in pots raised up so I could see
whats happening underneath! Sure it looks nice but it spreads like anything
and is a pain to control. We had some in our last garden and it spread 10
meters along a border down the back of other shrubs, under a concrete path
and up the other side.


Exactly! That's what I was afraid of Colin. The RHS seems to suggest
some are okay but there's so many differing views .
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

"Janet Tweedy" wrote
after Colin Watters
replied with

I'd never put bamboo in my garden except in pots raised up so I could see
whats happening underneath! Sure it looks nice but it spreads like
anything
and is a pain to control. We had some in our last garden and it spread 10
meters along a border down the back of other shrubs, under a concrete path
and up the other side.


Exactly! That's what I was afraid of Colin. The RHS seems to suggest some
are okay but there's so many differing views .

The so called clump forming bamboos are only clump forming to a degree, in a
good growing year they will run and how.
Plant in pots or surrounded by a good strong barrier.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden

In article , Bob Hobden
writes
The so called clump forming bamboos are only clump forming to a degree, in a
good growing year they will run and how.
Plant in pots or surrounded by a good strong barrier.



Is it worth lining the pots with fleece so that the water can drain away
but the roots can't escape?

janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

Use bamboos rather than tall grasses if you want evergreen plants. Bamboos come in two forms clump or runner, avoid using runner bamboo. Any of these bamboos will look good in a garden and will grow to between 9 - 12 ft tall [url]http://www.plantsforimpact.com/?cat=32/url]. There is also a new bamboo - Himalayan blue which looks fab. If you plant them in the ground you can use a root barrier to contain them however clump forming bamboo really does not spread that fast. Or in pots however, the bamboo roots will eventually break the pots, unless you lift and split the bamboo every couple of years. Planting bamboo in pots will mean that you have to water them - like grasses they get thirsty.

Use grasses rather than bamboo if you want an easily manageable plant. N.B. all the ornamental grasses are deciduous, so you need to opt for something like Miscanthus sinensis 'morning light' which has a wonderful appearance when Autumn arrives as its variegated leaves die off and they start to twist and spiral in all manner of degrees, very pretty - will grow to about 2M http://www.realoasis.com/Floral%20Hi...ng%20light.htm

HTH

The problem is not that clump-formers can run, in general they are botanically incapable of it (Yushania being the noted exception). The true problems are
(1) misuse of the term "clump-forming" by most people who sell bamboo, especially in the case of phyllostachys
(2) false expectations of people who somehow hope that bamboo won't transgress outside the one-foot circle they put it in - they fail to understand how big the bamboo will grow and what the realistic size of the clump is.
The true clumpers that are sold in this country and really do clump are basically Fargesia, Thamnocalamus and Borinda. Not that some of the foregoing are not quite big. Some of the smaller Fargesias really are going to remain within a 3 foot circle, especially Fargesia rufa (well that's what it's commonly sold as, it has actually been renamed botanically).

The situation with Phyllostachys is that the most popular two kinds, P nigra (true nigra, not other varieties) nigra and P aurea (most varieties) generally do stay put in British conditions, within about a 6 foot circle anyway - though that would be considered transgressive by those who hope for miracles. They are nonetheless invasive if conditions are right, ie warm and damp enough. People in parts of the USA where these things grow well correctly think of them as invasive. Someone from North Kent was showing pictures on another forum of his P nigra being invasive, but that is fairly unusual unless you live in Cornwall. So garden centres are not distorting things too much to describe those ones as being in practice mostly clump forming in British conditions. But the problem is when they remove the caveats, and then apply the description to other Phyllostachys which are a bit more inquisitive at the root, like P nigra boryana, or P aureosulcata.

The Phyllostachys are lovely, and if one likes them and has realistic expectations, and puts a rhizome barrier along ones property boundary just to make sure if you are growing them near the neighbour, they are not too much of a problem to grow if you like them. They provide a year round barrier, unlike most other grasses.

Most bamboos really don't like it in a pot. You can grow them. If you grow a phyllostachys, you'll have to divide and repot it every second year. And they need a lot of water, and you would worry about them dying while you go on holiday. In practice some of the smaller Fargesias perform best in a pot, but you may as well put them in the ground.

To get further detailed info on bamboos, and discover how many lovely Fargesias there are (among others), I suggest browsing the websites of Panglobal plants, Jungle giants and uk-bamboos.co.uk (Whitelea). Jungle giants is more prone to misuse "clumpforming" than the others, but he has little drawings to show you what kind of effect the bamboo is likely to have, and has the best mail order service. Panglobal plants has one of the very best selections of bamboos, but no mail order and no pictures.

The problem with other grasses as a screen is that most of the taller ones die back in winter. But there are notable exceptions. If you want an evergreen larger grass that will do pretty well in a pot, consider the restios, which are a South African group of reed-like grasses which are sort of half way to bamboo. Trevena Cross is a major mail order seller of restios, and has a good website. I am growing Thamnochortus insignis in the ground, and I haven't had any problems with frost, although some new shoots that foolishly came up in mild Feb got killed off by April frosts.

Janet, the rampant species and variants have given the entire family a
bad name, which is a great shame because there are plenty of non-
invasive bamboos that are easily accommodated where space is
limited.

Sasa species can be a nightmare if allowed to grow uncontrolled
although they have magnificent, 'jungly' leaves. Most don't grow very
tall, but boy can they spread and really need stern confinement to
prevent a complete take-over. Sasa palmata will appear many yards
away from its parent clump, sending out exploratory shoots into the
middle of your lawn, greenhouse or even the tarmac on your drive.
Christopher Lloyd once suggested it was best confined to an island and
he was probably right. So if you see 'Sasa' on a label, you know what
to expect.

Phyllostachys were once considered to be 'safe' with few predatory
ambitions for lots of space in this country. That was true when the
UK climate was a degree or two cooler, but in many regions most
species and varieties of the genus are now showing considerable
roaming tendencies. They are probably the most widely planted of the
bamboos and their substantial, often brightly coloured canes are
magnificent on well-grown plants. That said they are often large to
very large growing plants capable of taking over a small garden unless
contained within a barrier and are probably best avoided in very
confined spaces. You can keep them in pots, but you don't see the
canes at their very best.

Amongst the truly 'safe' bamboos that are generally available, all
Fargesia species are extremely well behaved and do not run about.
They form tight clumps to around 3ft across in time with very slender
canes and fountains of soft, small to medium sized leaves. Fargesias
make excellent screens or hedges and are very hardy, wind tolerant
bamboos. In exposed positions some of the foliage will be lost in
winter, however the culms (canes) rapidly leaf out again in spring.

F. murielae is relatively common and therefore comparatively
inexpensive; developing into a somewhat umbrella-like dome of arching,
greenish-yellow canes carrying masses of soft green leaflets. The 10
- 12ft. stems arch out under the weight of the foliage, so you need to
give it a bit of room to appreciate its form. You can trim it
although such treatment robs the plant of its elegant outline.

If space is really tight with no room for arching growth, Fargesia
nitida will fit the bill perfectly. On good soil it will grow about
as tall as murielae with pencil-thick, erect canes that darken
purplish with age. It makes a very good boundary screen and will not
run about. There are those who trim this species to form a 6 - 8 ft
high hedge and as such it does the job extremely well. It looks
better left to its own devices though and will not create an
overpowering wall of foliage.

Similar in height (maybe just a bit taller) with a more open habit is
F. scabrida, which is reputedly one of the food plants of the giant
panda. The clusters of leaflets are carried in a somewhat layered
fashion on old well established clumps and the growth seems slightly
more open than that of F. nitida. It takes some tracking down, but if
you inadvertently come across one you can safely plant without fear of
a triffidic invasion.

HTH.

In article . com, Dave
Poole writes
Janet, the rampant species and variants have given the entire family a
bad name, which is a great shame because there are plenty of non-
invasive bamboos that are easily accommodated where space is
limited.

Sasa species can be a nightmare

Snip ... a fascinating lot of information David! ..Snip

Similar in height (maybe just a bit taller) with a more open habit is
F. scabrida, which is reputedly one of the food plants of the giant
panda. The clusters of leaflets are carried in a somewhat layered
fashion on old well established clumps and the growth seems slightly
more open than that of F. nitida. It takes some tracking down, but if
you inadvertently come across one you can safely plant without fear of
a triffidic invasion.

HTH.
Oh how it does David! Bless you for taking the time to send this. Can I
ask if I can use it as an article in my Gardening Club Newsletter? Many
new members and new gardeners are starting out with completely different
views to traditional English gardeners, due to the warmer climes. Some
can't remember really cold winters! This seems to change their
perspective of gardening compared to us over 40 lot. (Well me over 40
lot anyway)
I wonder if this will also affect the gardening books of the future. I
am already finding that many books I valued in the 1970's are fast
becoming out of date in their choice of 'tender' plants

Thanks again

Janet


--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , echinosum
writes

The problem is not that clump-formers can run,


Snip .................


I haven't had any problems with frost,
although some new shoots that foolishly came up in mild Feb got killed
off by April frosts.


Thanks this is also really useful and worth retaining. I shall go and
order a few of the plants recommended by you and David. It's always
exciting discovering new ranges of plants that, as a gardener you
haven't grown before, even if I intend to use them in my son's garden.
Just looking at the websites has made me rather hanker over some of the
smaller blue grasses and one or two taller species for my own garden. I
did see a really beautiful steely blue grass (not the usual glabra) in
"The Plant Specialist" Sean Walters nursery in Great Missenden. Sadly he
doesn't open after the middle of October so I'll have to go back in
march or send him an email

--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

Bob Hobden wrote:

The so called clump forming bamboos are only clump forming to a
degree, in a good growing year they will run and how.
Plant in pots or surrounded by a good strong


35 m of runner in one season in an area 5m*4m from 1 golden & 1 black bamboo

The so called clump forming P.aurea is a notorious runner in the southern
states of the US
ie it likes it hot!

pk

In article ,
Janet Tweedy wrote:

In article . com, Dave
Poole writes
Janet, the rampant species and variants have given the entire family a
bad name, which is a great shame because there are plenty of non-
invasive bamboos that are easily accommodated where space is
limited.

Sasa species can be a nightmare

Snip ... a fascinating lot of information David! ..Snip

Similar in height (maybe just a bit taller) with a more open habit is
F. scabrida, which is reputedly one of the food plants of the giant
panda. The clusters of leaflets are carried in a somewhat layered
fashion on old well established clumps and the growth seems slightly
more open than that of F. nitida. It takes some tracking down, but if
you inadvertently come across one you can safely plant without fear of
a triffidic invasion.


I wouldn't bother with Fargesia Nitida at present since its flowering
and dying everywhere. Responsible nurseries probably won't sell it.
Similarly Fargesia Murielae flowered a few years ago so its probably
in short supply.
If you really want to grow them in pots, there's an article in the
latest issue of, er, well, the Journal of the Bamboo Society. It looks
hard work. I don't think the bamboos will take much notice of your
fleece lined pots. The rhizome tips are nicely pointed and will
punch holes right through fleece. You might try fine stainless steel
mesh?

j

In article ,
says...
In article ,
Janet Tweedy wrote:

In article . com, Dave
Poole writes
Janet, the rampant species and variants have given the entire family a
bad name, which is a great shame because there are plenty of non-
invasive bamboos that are easily accommodated where space is
limited.

Sasa species can be a nightmare

Snip ... a fascinating lot of information David! ..Snip

Similar in height (maybe just a bit taller) with a more open habit is
F. scabrida, which is reputedly one of the food plants of the giant
panda. The clusters of leaflets are carried in a somewhat layered
fashion on old well established clumps and the growth seems slightly
more open than that of F. nitida. It takes some tracking down, but if
you inadvertently come across one you can safely plant without fear of
a triffidic invasion.


I wouldn't bother with Fargesia Nitida at present since its flowering
and dying everywhere. Responsible nurseries probably won't sell it.
Similarly Fargesia Murielae flowered a few years ago so its probably
in short supply.
If you really want to grow them in pots, there's an article in the
latest issue of, er, well, the Journal of the Bamboo Society. It looks
hard work. I don't think the bamboos will take much notice of your
fleece lined pots. The rhizome tips are nicely pointed and will
punch holes right through fleece. You might try fine stainless steel
mesh?

j

I was thinking of trying an old stainless steel automatic washing maching
drum buried to see if that would slow one of the invasive sorts up, as
David Poole says several do have rather good leaves but a dare not risk
it having seen the devastation at Trenweignton where they are trying to
remove a Sasa type. On my light soil the Phyllostachs sorts I can cope
with.
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

"Next generation" F. nitida grown from the now very widely available new seed is on the market, even well developed three year plants. Just make sure you go to reputable specialist nurseries which are propagating from seed, not by division of old generation stock.

The lovely varieties of F. nitida such as Jiuzhaigou No1 and No2 are not affected by the present gregarious flowering. They have red colours in the culm at certain stages of development.

F. murieliae is widely available, with new post-flowering varieties. Simba, at 2m-3m, is somewhat smaller than the species, and is especially popular, and one of the more suitable varieties for a large plot. I have it, and find that it sometimes is just as "blue" in the new culm as any true "blue bamboo". Bimbo is smaller still.

On Oct 19, 7:13 pm, "p.k." wrote:

The so called clump forming P.aurea is a notorious runner in the southern
states of the US
ie it likes it hot!

Indeed it does, but it doesn't always need US style heat to get it
going. At my old (work) place, there was a large mixed bed, which had
been planted with P. aurea as a focal point about 8 years previously.
Not only had the bamboo inundated that bed, but was sending up shoots
into the surrounding grass in true Sasa fashion. Overall, the clump
was at least 25 feet across.

Conveniently, my students were looking at different propagation
techniques at the time and the Phyllostachys provided them with the
opportunity to carry out some fairly radical division techniques.
Later in the year, there were rows of large containers containing
sizeable divisions of P. aurea (mainly 8' plus) already sending
rhizomes over the pot rims.

In John McMillan's post, he mentions widespread flowering of Fargesia
nitida stocks. We had a hedge of this bordering neighbouring fields.
Over a couple of years (2004/05), a few clumps started flowering while
others remained firmly in the vegetative state. I'd half hoped to
see wholesale flowering and subsequent dying since such events can
provide extra interest and discussion in lessons when they occur 'on
your doorstep'. Until early this spring at least, that hedge was
still looking pretty good, with just a couple of thin patches.

There's certainly been a problem with nitida flowering (two out of
three in a neighbour's garden 'went west' a couple of years ago), but
I don't think it has been quite so simultaneous or wholesale as
predicted by some. As Echinosum observes, there are some extremely
fine forms of this and murielae that do not give cause for concern.