On 29/11/07 14:46, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
| On 29/11/07 10:48, in article , "Janet
| Tweedy" wrote:
|
| What about posting to the RHS?
|
| Could do - good idea. I'll also ask her to knock on the door, though and
to
| take a photo of the whole thing. She describes the bush as looking as if
| it's covered in lots of little pumpkins!

Critical aspects include whether the bush has thorns, and exactly
how the fruit are attached to it (e.g. whether via stems and on
what sort of age of wood).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Duly noted and passed on! Thanks everyone.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In message , Sacha
writes
On 29/11/07 14:46, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
| On 29/11/07 10:48, in article , "Janet
| Tweedy" wrote:
|
| What about posting to the RHS?
|
| Could do - good idea. I'll also ask her to knock on the door, though and
to
| take a photo of the whole thing. She describes the bush as looking as if
| it's covered in lots of little pumpkins!

Critical aspects include whether the bush has thorns, and exactly
how the fruit are attached to it (e.g. whether via stems and on
what sort of age of wood).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Duly noted and passed on! Thanks everyone.

Also whether there are the remains of the calyx at the distal end (the
end opposite the stalk) of the fruit.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

On 29/11/07 16:05, in article lid, "Stewart
Robert Hinsley" wrote:

In message , Sacha
writes
On 29/11/07 14:46, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
| On 29/11/07 10:48, in article , "Janet
| Tweedy" wrote:
|
| What about posting to the RHS?
|
| Could do - good idea. I'll also ask her to knock on the door, though and
to
| take a photo of the whole thing. She describes the bush as looking as if
| it's covered in lots of little pumpkins!

Critical aspects include whether the bush has thorns, and exactly
how the fruit are attached to it (e.g. whether via stems and on
what sort of age of wood).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Duly noted and passed on! Thanks everyone.

Also whether there are the remains of the calyx at the distal end (the
end opposite the stalk) of the fruit.

Will do. Thanks, Stewart. I must say there weren't on the two she gave us.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In message , Sacha
writes
On 29/11/07 16:05, in article lid, "Stewart
Robert Hinsley" wrote:

In message , Sacha
writes
On 29/11/07 14:46, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
| On 29/11/07 10:48, in article , "Janet
| Tweedy" wrote:
|
| What about posting to the RHS?
|
| Could do - good idea. I'll also ask her to knock on the door,
|though and
to
| take a photo of the whole thing. She describes the bush as
|looking as if
| it's covered in lots of little pumpkins!

Critical aspects include whether the bush has thorns, and exactly
how the fruit are attached to it (e.g. whether via stems and on
what sort of age of wood).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Duly noted and passed on! Thanks everyone.

Also whether there are the remains of the calyx at the distal end (the
end opposite the stalk) of the fruit.

Will do. Thanks, Stewart. I must say there weren't on the two she gave us.

That supports as an identification as Chaenomeles, as opposed to Cydonia
or Docynia. (Pseudocydonia is treated as a synonym of Chaenomeles in
Flora of China.)

Of the 16 genera present in China Raphiolepis also has caducuous sepals,
and the presence or absence of the calyx in fruit is variable in Sorbus,
Pyrus and Malus.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
I was given this tonight by someone who lives in Westbury on Trym. She has
seen these fruits growing on a bush (not a tree) in a garden and picked
two
up off the road. They smell very faintly citrusy to me and each seed
chamber has two seeds in each side. She's not a gardener so can only tell
me that the leaves are leaf shaped, not huge, not leathery and that the
fruits are autumnal.
http://i16.tinypic.com/7x8rupj.jpg

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

I'd suggest Hodgsonia Macrocarpa, I don't know if there are any coomon
names. Probably worth googling it.

On 29/11/07 18:14, in article , "Russel
Sprout" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
I was given this tonight by someone who lives in Westbury on Trym. She has
seen these fruits growing on a bush (not a tree) in a garden and picked
two
up off the road. They smell very faintly citrusy to me and each seed
chamber has two seeds in each side. She's not a gardener so can only tell
me that the leaves are leaf shaped, not huge, not leathery and that the
fruits are autumnal.
http://i16.tinypic.com/7x8rupj.jpg

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

I'd suggest Hodgsonia Macrocarpa, I don't know if there are any coomon
names. Probably worth googling it.


It's extraordinarily like it but H. macrocarpa is waaaay too big. The
Bristol fruits are about the size of a chestnut. What size are the fruits
of H. heteroclita, do you happen to know? Or are they the same plant under
different names?

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In message , Sacha
writes
On 29/11/07 18:14, in article , "Russel
Sprout" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
I was given this tonight by someone who lives in Westbury on Trym. She has
seen these fruits growing on a bush (not a tree) in a garden and picked
two
up off the road. They smell very faintly citrusy to me and each seed
chamber has two seeds in each side. She's not a gardener so can only tell
me that the leaves are leaf shaped, not huge, not leathery and that the
fruits are autumnal.
http://i16.tinypic.com/7x8rupj.jpg

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

I'd suggest Hodgsonia Macrocarpa, I don't know if there are any coomon
names. Probably worth googling it.


It's extraordinarily like it but H. macrocarpa is waaaay too big. The
Bristol fruits are about the size of a chestnut. What size are the fruits
of H. heteroclita, do you happen to know? Or are they the same plant under
different names?

There seems to some debate as to whether there is one of two species.
Wikipedia has H. macrocarpa as the southern form, and H. heteroclita as
the northern form. Some other sources give them as synonyms.

Even the northern form might not be hardy in Britain. Apart from the
size of the fruit (8" diam, 4-6" long in H. heteroclita), the plants are
woody climbers, not bushes, the leaves are 3 or more commonly 5-lobed,
and the flowers have long tendrils extending from the petals. I also
suspect that the seeds don't match - pictures look as if individual
seeds (6 in total) fill cavities in fruit pulp.

http://hua.huh.harvard.edu/china/mss...-MO_coauthorin
gFeb2007.htm

(It might be worth showing your fruits bisected vertically, rather than
horizontally, as this may help confirm that they are pomes.)

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

In article ,
"Russel Sprout" writes:
|
| I'd suggest Hodgsonia Macrocarpa, I don't know if there are any coomon
| names. Probably worth googling it.

Hmm. That indicates something that we haven't asked. Is there an
apple-like boundary to the seed chamber (usually with 'fingernails'),
or are the seeds enclosed in a loose pulp with no clear boundary
between that and the flesh?

If the former, it is very unlikely (impossible?) to be a cucurbit
and is almost certainly one of the Rosaceae pome fruits. If the
latter, more or less the converse applies, though a cucurbit is
only one of many possibilities.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 29/11/07 18:14, in article , "Russel
Sprout" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
I was given this tonight by someone who lives in Westbury on Trym. She
has
seen these fruits growing on a bush (not a tree) in a garden and picked
two
up off the road. They smell very faintly citrusy to me and each seed
chamber has two seeds in each side. She's not a gardener so can only
tell
me that the leaves are leaf shaped, not huge, not leathery and that the
fruits are autumnal.
http://i16.tinypic.com/7x8rupj.jpg

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

I'd suggest Hodgsonia Macrocarpa, I don't know if there are any coomon
names. Probably worth googling it.


It's extraordinarily like it but H. macrocarpa is waaaay too big. The
Bristol fruits are about the size of a chestnut. What size are the fruits
of H. heteroclita, do you happen to know? Or are they the same plant
under
different names?

macrocarpa, as the name suggests is a big variety/species. There are many
similar variety/species in the wild that are smaller, only a few are named,
pinning this particular plant down would be difficult and probably the
province of and expert, not myself. If its heteroclita look out for the
flowers next hear, short lived, but absolutly amazing!

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"Russel Sprout" writes:
|
| I'd suggest Hodgsonia Macrocarpa, I don't know if there are any coomon
| names. Probably worth googling it.

Hmm. That indicates something that we haven't asked. Is there an
apple-like boundary to the seed chamber (usually with 'fingernails'),
or are the seeds enclosed in a loose pulp with no clear boundary
between that and the flesh?

If the former, it is very unlikely (impossible?) to be a cucurbit
and is almost certainly one of the Rosaceae pome fruits. If the
latter, more or less the converse applies, though a cucurbit is
only one of many possibilities.


Quince, or similar, is much more likely of course, I have seen quince deeply
lobed like that. It would be nice if it were something much more exotic
though.

could it be the Quince-Israel in this pickie looks sort of similar without the defined ridges.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nce-israel.jpg

On 29/11/07 19:03, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
"Russel Sprout" writes:
|
| I'd suggest Hodgsonia Macrocarpa, I don't know if there are any coomon
| names. Probably worth googling it.

Hmm. That indicates something that we haven't asked. Is there an
apple-like boundary to the seed chamber (usually with 'fingernails'),
or are the seeds enclosed in a loose pulp with no clear boundary
between that and the flesh?

If the former, it is very unlikely (impossible?) to be a cucurbit
and is almost certainly one of the Rosaceae pome fruits. If the
latter, more or less the converse applies, though a cucurbit is
only one of many possibilities.


The seeds are loose in their chamber with no flesh clinging to them and
there seem to be two seeds to each chamber on each half of the fruit halves.
IOW more like an apple, yes.


--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On 29/11/07 19:08, in article , "Russel
Sprout" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 29/11/07 18:14, in article , "Russel
Sprout" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
I was given this tonight by someone who lives in Westbury on Trym. She
has
seen these fruits growing on a bush (not a tree) in a garden and picked
two
up off the road. They smell very faintly citrusy to me and each seed
chamber has two seeds in each side. She's not a gardener so can only
tell
me that the leaves are leaf shaped, not huge, not leathery and that the
fruits are autumnal.
http://i16.tinypic.com/7x8rupj.jpg

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

I'd suggest Hodgsonia Macrocarpa, I don't know if there are any coomon
names. Probably worth googling it.


It's extraordinarily like it but H. macrocarpa is waaaay too big. The
Bristol fruits are about the size of a chestnut. What size are the fruits
of H. heteroclita, do you happen to know? Or are they the same plant
under
different names?

macrocarpa, as the name suggests is a big variety/species. There are many
similar variety/species in the wild that are smaller, only a few are named,
pinning this particular plant down would be difficult and probably the
province of and expert, not myself. If its heteroclita look out for the
flowers next hear, short lived, but absolutly amazing!


I'll ask her if she's seen the flowers. I saw them on Google and amazing is
right!

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

On 29/11/07 21:05, in article , "Granity"
wrote:


Sacha;762691 Wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
| On 29/11/07 10:48, in article ,
"Janet
| Tweedy" wrote:
|
| What about posting to the RHS?
|
| Could do - good idea. I'll also ask her to knock on the door,
though and
to
| take a photo of the whole thing. She describes the bush as looking
as if
| it's covered in lots of little pumpkins!

Critical aspects include whether the bush has thorns, and exactly
how the fruit are attached to it (e.g. whether via stems and on
what sort of age of wood).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Duly noted and passed on! Thanks everyone.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

could it be the Quince-Israel in this pickie looks sort of similar
without the defined ridges.

http://tinyurl.com/2fwzzg


[/i][/color]
I'm afraid not. It looks much too big and it's not ridged in any uniform
way.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| The seeds are loose in their chamber with no flesh clinging to them and
| there seem to be two seeds to each chamber on each half of the fruit halves.
| IOW more like an apple, yes.

Yes, but what's the outside the the chamber like? Does it have a
definite, relatively tough, inner layer or not?

And, related to that, how many chambers are there? Robert said
that cutting it the other way would help. If there really are only
two chambers, each with two seeds, the plot thickens ....


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.