On 11/9/08 21:24, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| I'm not really trying to contradict you. I just point out that the gospel
| according to the Guardian isn't very popular or widespread, so its unbiased
| - as you see it - message, is not getting across to many.

Given its generally unreliable and even addled viewpoints, that is
not something that causes me sleepness nights! What does concern
me is the number of people who take their views from Murdoch.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

We gave up The Times.......but we read the DT - oh, calamity.......!

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

In article ,
Sacha writes:
| On 11/9/08 16:09, in article ,
| "Charlie Pridham" wrote:
|
| But Nick has a point, I used to read a paper untill a run of stories
| about stuff I actually knew something about, these articles were so wrong
| so often, that I formed the view that the chances were high that all the
| other stories were probably wrong most of the time as well so apart from
| the crossword it made reading the thing a waste of time! ....
|
| I can't think of *one* newspaper that doesn't have a bias of some sort. So
| for me, the answer is to read what comes along and have a large dish of salt
| on the side!

Yes, but the point isn't the fact they have a bias - even the Independent
does - but whether they deliberately distort and even falsify facts in
order to propagate their prejudices. That is propaganda.

And the simple fact is that the Daily Telegraph is probably the worst
newspaper in the UK for doing that, though the Sun runs it close. The
article that started this thread is an example, though we have had much
clearer ones before.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article , Stan The Man
writes


Bringing this back on topic, some people choose the Telegraph because
it has the best gardening section.



I find it the best out of all the gardening columns but I also like the
weekend cryptic crosswords
It has some very good gardening writers.
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes

Yes, but the point isn't the fact they have a bias - even the Independent
does - but whether they deliberately distort and even falsify facts in
order to propagate their prejudices. That is propaganda.

And the simple fact is that the Daily Telegraph is probably the worst
newspaper in the UK for doing that, though the Sun runs it close.

Aren't you forgetting the Daily Mail, or do you refuse to credit it with
the description "newspaper"?
--
Gordon H
Remove "invalid" to reply

In article ,
Gordon H writes:
|
| Yes, but the point isn't the fact they have a bias - even the Independent
| does - but whether they deliberately distort and even falsify facts in
| order to propagate their prejudices. That is propaganda.
|
| And the simple fact is that the Daily Telegraph is probably the worst
| newspaper in the UK for doing that, though the Sun runs it close.
|
| Aren't you forgetting the Daily Mail, or do you refuse to credit it with
| the description "newspaper"?

No and perhaps. I am referring specifically to deliberate distortion
and falsification, and not merely bigoted drivel. The reason that the
Daily Telegraph is so pernicious is that it appears to a naive reader
to be a NEWSpaper, and it dresses up its propaganda as facts
sufficiently well that otherwise not-totally-idiotic readers believe
what it says.

I know of quite a few fairly intelligent readers of the Daily Mail
and Sun, and few of them even look at its political pages! They most
certainly don't believe them - the only people who do are beyond hope.

Look back at the archives of this group - virtually every story of
this kind that has been believed by at least some non-trolls and later
discovered to be essentially false has started in the Daily Telegraph.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 2008-09-13 12:38:04 +0100, VivienB said:

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:52:13 +0100, Stan The Man
wrote:

the local authority has
neglected these ditches for years, here and just about everywhere else,
with the result that they have all filled in and are no longer visible
to the naked eye.

The local authority here told me that they are not responsible for any
more than cutting the first metre of verge - the landowner is said to
be responsible for hedging and ditching.

That is the case with some ditches but the majority hereabouts are
situated in no-man's-land between private property and the highway -
called the Highway Extent I believe - and their maintenance is
definitely a duty of the local authority.

In article , Nick Maclaren
writes

The reason that the
Daily Telegraph is so pernicious is that it appears to a naive reader
to be a NEWSpaper, and it dresses up its propaganda as facts
sufficiently well that otherwise not-totally-idiotic readers believe
what it says.

Well I'm not sure that thinking this government is a load of rubbish is
propaganda Nick, just a point of view surely?

Neither do I think you can call it propaganda as you are surely being
read by an already 'biased' audience?

Some of us have tried to read and accept the Guardian you know, but we
could equally call it left-wing propaganda, there's only the Daily
Worker after that.


--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article ,
Janet Tweedy writes:
|
| The reason that the
| Daily Telegraph is so pernicious is that it appears to a naive reader
| to be a NEWSpaper, and it dresses up its propaganda as facts
| sufficiently well that otherwise not-totally-idiotic readers believe
| what it says.
|
| Well I'm not sure that thinking this government is a load of rubbish is
| propaganda Nick, just a point of view surely?

I made it quite clear that is NOT what I was referring to.

| Neither do I think you can call it propaganda as you are surely being
| read by an already 'biased' audience?

Ah. The pornography defence.

| Some of us have tried to read and accept the Guardian you know, but we
| could equally call it left-wing propaganda, there's only the Daily
| Worker after that.
|

Despite its numerous and serious faults, I have never seen the Grauniad
deliberately misquote in order to deceive its readers. Almost all of
its errors are clearly due to feeble-mindedness.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article , Nick Maclaren
writes

. Almost all of
its errors are clearly due to feeble-mindedness.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


Well we all get old
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

The local authority here told me that they are not responsible for any
more than cutting the first metre of verge - the landowner is said to
be responsible for hedging and ditching.

That is the case with some ditches but the majority hereabouts are
situated in no-man's-land between private property and the highway -
called the Highway Extent I believe - and their maintenance is
definitely a duty of the local authority.

If your local authority admits they are responsible, but still refuse
to do anything, what does your councillor say about it? If still no
action, I would write a letter of complaint to the relevant department
of the council. Continuing inaction, let your MP know.

Also any neighbours and yourself could get this one going in the local
paper - 'We have been desperately worried that our houses would flood
during this awful wet weather, because the council does not do what we
pay council tax for' sort of tone should do it.

Hope I am not teaching granny to suck eggs!

--
Regards, VivienB


"Neglect of Council Duties following this notice and if we flood we claim
off you"

Works wonders. Have had Planning Permission refused on a piece of land
because of possible flooding of property. A road re-aligned because house
DID flood and I videoed how and where the water was going to cause the
flooding and 'if you don't do anything about and the houses flood again, we
will sue you' and the final one is a drain. I have been fighting for one for
a long time and I had Head of Highways telephone me to say it will be done.

The secret? WRITE WRITE WRITE with a sting in the tail which if they ignore,
will cost them.

One secret. Be a ******* and it will work :-))

Mike making yet ANOTHER non gardening post, but I didn't start the thread.
:-))

The message
from Janet Tweedy contains these words:

Some of us have tried to read and accept the Guardian you know, but we
could equally call it left-wing propaganda, there's only the Daily
Worker after that.


Keep up at the back there, do!

The daily Worker was renamed a generation ago innit.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

Despite its numerous and serious faults, I have never seen the Grauniad
deliberately misquote in order to deceive its readers. Almost all of
its errors are clearly due to feeble-mindedness.

And tagnled fnigers.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

The message
from Anne Welsh Jackson contains these words:
Rusty Hinge 2 wrote:
Janet Tweedy wrote:

Some of us have tried to read and accept the Guardian you know,
but we could equally call it left-wing propaganda, there's only the
Daily Worker after that.


Keep up at the back there, do!

The daily Worker was renamed a generation ago innit.

42 years is TWO generations ago, innit?

Depends whether she's prickly or not...

--
Rusty
Men love women, women love children, children love hamsters.
(Alice Thomas Ellis)

In article ,
Anne Welsh Jackson writes:
| Rusty Hinge 2 wrote:
| Janet Tweedy wrote:
|
| Some of us have tried to read and accept the Guardian you know,
| but we could equally call it left-wing propaganda, there's only the
| Daily Worker after that.
|
|
| Keep up at the back there, do!
|
| The daily Worker was renamed a generation ago innit.
|
| 42 years is TWO generations ago, innit?

Not in my half-brother's paternal line :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.