Anyone good at identifying this? About 12" tall and looks like a total
pain in the ass? To add to the infestation of Knot Weed that I found the
other day and the Himalayan Balsalm that is just EVERYWHERE?

Not in my garden, but on a part of the National Cycle Network that I
help manage. But at this rate of infestation, in my garden, your garden,
EVERY garden. What is happening to our countryside?

Seriously though, if I post a pic of some Giant Hog Weed, anyone able to
say yes or no?

Brian.

"Brian Robertson" wrote in message
...
Anyone good at identifying this? About 12" tall and looks like a total
pain in the ass? To add to the infestation of Knot Weed that I found the
other day and the Himalayan Balsalm that is just EVERYWHERE?

Not in my garden, but on a part of the National Cycle Network that I help
manage. But at this rate of infestation, in my garden, your garden, EVERY
garden. What is happening to our countryside?

Seriously though, if I post a pic of some Giant Hog Weed, anyone able to
say yes or no?

Brian.


Try googling giant hog weed, there are id sites galore

pk

In article ,
Brian Robertson writes:
| Anyone good at identifying this? About 12" tall and looks like a total
| pain in the ass? To add to the infestation of Knot Weed that I found the
| other day and the Himalayan Balsalm that is just EVERYWHERE?
|
| Not in my garden, but on a part of the National Cycle Network that I
| help manage. But at this rate of infestation, in my garden, your garden,
| EVERY garden. What is happening to our countryside?
|
| Seriously though, if I post a pic of some Giant Hog Weed, anyone able to
| say yes or no?

Well, yes, but the most likely 12' umbellifer is hogweed, so what the
hell? I assume that you meant 12' (feet) and not 12" (inches). Put
it up on a Web site and post the URL, if you like, but it isn't really
worth the effort.

Despite the hysterics, it ISN'T taking over the UK. And, to answer
your question, almost all of the UK flora is recent, and a very high
proportion is introduced, so what the hell?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Brian Robertson writes:
| Anyone good at identifying this? About 12" tall and looks like a total
| pain in the ass? To add to the infestation of Knot Weed that I found the
| other day and the Himalayan Balsalm that is just EVERYWHERE?
|
| Not in my garden, but on a part of the National Cycle Network that I
| help manage. But at this rate of infestation, in my garden, your garden,
| EVERY garden. What is happening to our countryside?
|
| Seriously though, if I post a pic of some Giant Hog Weed, anyone able to
| say yes or no?

Well, yes, but the most likely 12' umbellifer is hogweed, so what the
hell? I assume that you meant 12' (feet) and not 12" (inches). Put
it up on a Web site and post the URL, if you like, but it isn't really
worth the effort.

Despite the hysterics, it ISN'T taking over the UK. And, to answer
your question, almost all of the UK flora is recent, and a very high
proportion is introduced, so what the hell?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Hog Weed is fairly rare in my experience, but it spreads. (Yes I did
mean 12') Knot weed I find to be depressingly problematic, virtually
closing some paths when in full bloom and wiping out the other plant
life around it. Balsalm is just everywhere and, like Knot Weed, seems to
wipe out the competition.

I think they are all introduced. No, they aren't taking over the UK, but
they do seem to be leaving deep and unpleasant scars.

Brian.

In article ,
Brian Robertson writes:
|
| Hog Weed is fairly rare in my experience, but it spreads. (Yes I did
| mean 12') Knot weed I find to be depressingly problematic, virtually
| closing some paths when in full bloom and wiping out the other plant
| life around it. Balsalm is just everywhere and, like Knot Weed, seems to
| wipe out the competition.

Knotweed does have that effect, but I have seen neither hogweed nor
Himalayan balsam eliminate other plants.

| I think they are all introduced. No, they aren't taking over the UK, but
| they do seem to be leaving deep and unpleasant scars.

Just like sweet chestnut! Seriously.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Brian Robertson writes:
|
| Hog Weed is fairly rare in my experience, but it spreads. (Yes I did
| mean 12') Knot weed I find to be depressingly problematic, virtually
| closing some paths when in full bloom and wiping out the other plant
| life around it. Balsalm is just everywhere and, like Knot Weed, seems to
| wipe out the competition.

Knotweed does have that effect, but I have seen neither hogweed nor
Himalayan balsam eliminate other plants.

| I think they are all introduced. No, they aren't taking over the UK, but
| they do seem to be leaving deep and unpleasant scars.

Just like sweet chestnut! Seriously.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

If they are growing thickly enough, I suspect that any of these plants
would reduce diversity in a given area. Knotweed is, indeed, the worst
offender though. When it falls back in the winter it leaves a barren
wasteland behind it. Of course the real danger with Hogweed lies in what
its sap does.

What upset me about these particular infestations is that they are small
patches and presumably new, which leaves me wondering (Fearing) what
that same river bank will look like in 5 or 10 years time. The other
side of the river is a jungle of knot weed.

Shame. There ain't no money to stop it.

Brian.

In article ,
Brian Robertson writes:
|
| If they are growing thickly enough, I suspect that any of these plants
| would reduce diversity in a given area. Knotweed is, indeed, the worst
| offender though. When it falls back in the winter it leaves a barren
| wasteland behind it.

That is dubious for the others, because they rarely grow thickly enough
to prevent all other plants growing underneath or through them.

| Of course the real danger with Hogweed lies in what its sap does.

Not as much as the hysterics imply. It's little worse than many other
garden plants, which don't attract the same hysteria.

| What upset me about these particular infestations is that they are small
| patches and presumably new, which leaves me wondering (Fearing) what
| that same river bank will look like in 5 or 10 years time. The other
| side of the river is a jungle of knot weed.

I have observed patches of both hogweed and Himalayan balsam over
decades; they rarely expand aggressively and exclusively.


Britain has a very competitive flora, because it is almost entirely
comprised of plants that have invaded or been introduced in the past
11,000 years, and so is at little risk from other introductions. I
can think of a mere handful of plants (native OR introduced) that
form exclusive ecologies except in very unusual circumstances or with
ongoing human help.

Even the most notorious ones (Rhododendron ponticum and Japanese
knotweed) need fairly specific conditions to become exclusive. Are
there any others that reach even that level? I can't think of any,
offhand. Even natural lime or oak woods were/are rarely pure.

Now is the time to quote Douglas Adams ....


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In message , Brian Robertson
writes

Hog Weed is fairly rare in my experience, but it spreads. (Yes I did
mean 12') Knot weed I find to be depressingly problematic, virtually
closing some paths when in full bloom and wiping out the other plant
life around it. Balsalm is just everywhere and, like Knot Weed, seems
to wipe out the competition.

I think they are all introduced. No, they aren't taking over the UK,
but they do seem to be leaving deep and unpleasant scars.
Brian.

I have only seen giant Hog Weed in one area, (must repeat that local
walk some time and check again).

I spend a couple of hours each week as a volunteer on conservation work
in a local country park, and most of the time I have been a member of
the group has been spent removing introduced species like rhododendron
and Indian balsam.
The latter IS taking over in low-lying areas especially close to the
river, and only when it is pulled up in Summer does the other vegetation
manage to recover. We usually have about 12 members plus two or
three wardens engaged in the work, and that is not enough to clear the
whole park of the stuff, which is over 6ft tall in some places.
Last week the effort was concentrated on clearing it from an area where
it was concealing the Japanese Knot Weed, which will be the job of the
wardens to tackle with injected "stuff" which requires them to apply for
a licence every year.

In the areas which have been cleared, ferns, foxglove and various
wildflowers thrive, but balsam overwhelms just about everything,
including nettles, where it grows unchecked. :-(
-
Gordon H
Remove "invalid" to reply

Gordon H wrote:
In message , Brian Robertson
writes

Hog Weed is fairly rare in my experience, but it spreads. (Yes I did
mean 12') Knot weed I find to be depressingly problematic, virtually
closing some paths when in full bloom and wiping out the other plant
life around it. Balsalm is just everywhere and, like Knot Weed, seems
to wipe out the competition.

I think they are all introduced. No, they aren't taking over the UK,
but they do seem to be leaving deep and unpleasant scars.
Brian.

I have only seen giant Hog Weed in one area, (must repeat that local
walk some time and check again).

I spend a couple of hours each week as a volunteer on conservation work
in a local country park, and most of the time I have been a member of
the group has been spent removing introduced species like rhododendron
and Indian balsam.
The latter IS taking over in low-lying areas especially close to the
river, and only when it is pulled up in Summer does the other vegetation
manage to recover. We usually have about 12 members plus two or
three wardens engaged in the work, and that is not enough to clear the
whole park of the stuff, which is over 6ft tall in some places.
Last week the effort was concentrated on clearing it from an area where
it was concealing the Japanese Knot Weed, which will be the job of the
wardens to tackle with injected "stuff" which requires them to apply for
a licence every year.

In the areas which have been cleared, ferns, foxglove and various
wildflowers thrive, but balsam overwhelms just about everything,
including nettles, where it grows unchecked. :-(
-
Gordon H
Remove "invalid" to reply

Glad you agree with me!

Tameside volunteer wardens seem to devote a massive amount of time to
fighting balsalm and I have seen parts of the Bollin Valley in Cheshire
where there is hogweed like a forest along the river banks. Thoroughly
unpleasant species IMHO.

Brian.

In article ,
Brian Robertson writes:
|
| I spend a couple of hours each week as a volunteer on conservation work
| in a local country park, and most of the time I have been a member of
| the group has been spent removing introduced species like rhododendron
| and Indian balsam.
| The latter IS taking over in low-lying areas especially close to the
| river, and only when it is pulled up in Summer does the other vegetation
| manage to recover.

What climatic conditions? I.e. location?

Where I have seen Himalayan balsam, it has been fairly sparse; I know
that it needs lots of water and dislikes shade, but there is more to
it than that. From your reference to rhododendron, I assume that you
are posting from the west and not too far north, as Rhododendron
ponticum is not a problem elsewhere. If recent years become typical,
that may change, but some other species would invade the previously
dry areas if they didn't.

I have never heard of hogweed growing densely, though I can't rule out
the possibility.

It really doesn't help daemonising such plants! The UK countryside
ISN'T under threat from them, though a few ecologies in a few areas
may be.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
echinosum writes:
|
| Ground elder is a xxxxxx. And there is a thing called Alexanders which
| is a nuisance in some areas.

But they are not an ecological problem, and are native anyway!

| Introduced animals are much more frequently a problem - the zoological
| niche is more crowded and in-comers more frequently displace the locals
| without man's further assistance.

Grrk. Not quite. That's actually the CONVERSE of the problem! We
have such a restricted set of many types of animal that it is easy
for an introduced one to find an unoccupied niche - which may then
lead to excessive numbers and consequent problems to already scarce
species.

For example, the reason that roe deer, muntjac and mink spread so
easily is that fox and cat are the only common 'large' carnivores.
It has been observed that mink don't spread much into areas with an
established otter population, for example.

And little owls and collared doves spread because of the lack of
predatory birds.

This is why the anti-lynx brigade are so wrong - NOT reintroducing
lynx is as risky as introducing it.

| Britain used to have native rhododendrons before the ice ages.
| Unfortunately those kinds are now globally extinct. And we had all
| sorts of wonderful animals like hippos and elephants and hyenas and
| things.

Yes. I should like to see them restored :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
(Nick Maclaren) writes:
| In article ,
| echinosum writes:
| |
| | Ground elder is a xxxxxx. And there is a thing called Alexanders which
| | is a nuisance in some areas.
|
| But they are not an ecological problem, and are native anyway!

Er, I got their nativeness wrong. Ground elder may be (or may not),
but alexanders isn't.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Ground elder is a xxxxxx. And there is a thing called Alexanders which is a nuisance in some areas.

But in general, you are right, we have about 2000 introduced plant species, and very few are a nuisance, and very few other plants have become extinct as a consequence of introductions. Local botanical ecological niches don't seem to be very crowded (when man doesn't utterly destroy it), there seems to be plenty of room for more in it. Of course if man is totally destroying the plant habitats, it can be different. There is very little native vegetation left in many countries like Chile and Tahiti and Madagascar and large parts of USA and Canada, but this is because man destroyed it, not because of displacement by introductions.

Introduced animals are much more frequently a problem - the zoological niche is more crowded and in-comers more frequently displace the locals without man's further assistance.

Britain used to have native rhododendrons before the ice ages. Unfortunately those kinds are now globally extinct. And we had all sorts of wonderful animals like hippos and elephants and hyenas and things.

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

Well, yes, but the most likely 12' umbellifer is hogweed, so what the
hell? I assume that you meant 12' (feet) and not 12" (inches). Put
it up on a Web site and post the URL, if you like, but it isn't really
worth the effort.

However, it could *JUST* be angelica.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
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The message
from Brian Robertson contains these words:

Shame. There ain't no money to stop it.

Coo! Will it stop for money?

thinks

I wonder if anyone would pay *ME* to stop?

/thinks

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig