Hi all,
I'm fairly new to vegetable gardening, having started one year ago.
Now that the growing season is over, I'm thinking of trying the
technique of covering the plot with black plastic sheeting, to kill
off all vegetation, prior to next Spring's planting.

The timetable I am contemplating is to plant winter field beans, right
now, to enrich the soil. Then, early next Spring, when the field beans
have grown, cover the whole lot with black plastic for a suitable
time, to kill everything (field beans and weeds) then remove the
plastic and plant my vegetables in the weed-free soil. (I probably
won't dig the soil over at this point, as I want to try no-dig
gardening next year.

Does this sound like a good plan? Is the field-bean idea worth the
effort? Does it really improve the soil significantly?

Anyone else used the black plastick sheeting method routinely? Which
month do you do it and how long do you leave the sheeting in place? Do
you save the sheeting for use again, the following year?

Thanks,

JD

"Jake D" wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I'm fairly new to vegetable gardening, having started one year ago.
Now that the growing season is over, I'm thinking of trying the
technique of covering the plot with black plastic sheeting, to kill
off all vegetation, prior to next Spring's planting.

The timetable I am contemplating is to plant winter field beans, right
now, to enrich the soil. Then, early next Spring, when the field beans
have grown, cover the whole lot with black plastic for a suitable
time, to kill everything (field beans and weeds) then remove the
plastic and plant my vegetables in the weed-free soil. (I probably
won't dig the soil over at this point, as I want to try no-dig
gardening next year.

Does this sound like a good plan? Is the field-bean idea worth the
effort? Does it really improve the soil significantly?

Anyone else used the black plastick sheeting method routinely? Which
month do you do it and how long do you leave the sheeting in place? Do
you save the sheeting for use again, the following year?

Thanks,

JD

I think at you are going to a lot of trouble without there being much
chance of success as the soil will be far from weed-free when you remove
the covering.

Best to roughly dig the soil and expose it to the frosts so that in the
spring you can break it down into a fine tilth ready for sowing.

Regards,
Emrys Davies.

...cover the whole lot with black plastic for a suitable
time, to kill everything (field beans and weeds) then remove the
plastic and plant my vegetables in the weed-free soil.

I think that you'd need to leave the plastic in place for at least a year
for this to work. If you remove the plastic in time to plant anything in
spring then there will still be time for weed seeds to germinate and for
perennials like bind weed to grow.

--
Hayley
gardening on clay in Somerset

"Jake D" wrote
Hi all,
I'm fairly new to vegetable gardening, having started one year ago.
Now that the growing season is over, I'm thinking of trying the
technique of covering the plot with black plastic sheeting, to kill
off all vegetation, prior to next Spring's planting.

The timetable I am contemplating is to plant winter field beans, right
now, to enrich the soil. Then, early next Spring, when the field beans
have grown, cover the whole lot with black plastic for a suitable
time, to kill everything (field beans and weeds) then remove the
plastic and plant my vegetables in the weed-free soil. (I probably
won't dig the soil over at this point, as I want to try no-dig
gardening next year.

Does this sound like a good plan? Is the field-bean idea worth the
effort? Does it really improve the soil significantly?

Anyone else used the black plastick sheeting method routinely? Which
month do you do it and how long do you leave the sheeting in place? Do
you save the sheeting for use again, the following year?

Plastic sheeting will have no benefit for such a short period and can alter
the pH of the soil over an extended period anyway. Green manure I don't use
as I've had a very bad experience with it.
Dig the plot and dig in well rotted horse manure (1 year old) where you
intend to plant your potatoes next season, depends what crop rotation you
use. That's all that needs doing until the early spring when you start
planting again...Broad Beans, Shallots, Onions...
That said, you have already planted your Garlic haven't you.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:28:44 +0100, "Emrys Davies"
wrote:

I think at you are going to a lot of trouble without there being much
chance of success as the soil will be far from weed-free when you remove
the covering.

I see. I was assuming it was a quicker process.

Best to roughly dig the soil and expose it to the frosts so that in the
spring you can break it down into a fine tilth ready for spring planting

That sounds an interesting technique. Doesn't that make life difficult
for the earthworms ?

JD

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:35:30 +0100, "catkin"
wrote:


I think that you'd need to leave the plastic in place for at least a year
for this to work. If you remove the plastic in time to plant anything in
spring then there will still be time for weed seeds to germinate and for
perennials like bind weed to grow.

I see. I was jumping to a wrong assumption that the black plastic only
needs to be in place for about a month.

JD

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:14:48 +0100, "Bob Hobden"
wrote:

Plastic sheeting will have no benefit for such a short period and can alter
the pH of the soil over an extended period anyway. Green manure I don't use
as I've had a very bad experience with it.

Like what? Do you mind sharing?

Dig the plot and dig in well rotted horse manure (1 year old) where you
intend to plant your potatoes next season, depends what crop rotation you
use. That's all that needs doing until the early spring when you start
planting again...Broad Beans, Shallots, Onions...

Apart from some weeding, perhaps...

That said, you have already planted your Garlic haven't you.

No, as I don't use it... Thanks.

JD

The message
from Jake D contains these words:

Hi all,
I'm fairly new to vegetable gardening, having started one year ago.
Now that the growing season is over, I'm thinking of trying the
technique of covering the plot with black plastic sheeting, to kill
off all vegetation, prior to next Spring's planting.

The timetable I am contemplating is to plant winter field beans, right
now, to enrich the soil. Then, early next Spring, when the field beans
have grown, cover the whole lot with black plastic for a suitable
time, to kill everything (field beans and weeds) then remove the
plastic and plant my vegetables in the weed-free soil.

Forget it. Let the field beans grow and treat them as small broad beans
- delicious!

The soil won't be weed-free for long.

(I probably
won't dig the soil over at this point, as I want to try no-dig
gardening next year.

You might have better results, then, but the moment you dig it over
you'll expose dormant seeds.

Does this sound like a good plan? Is the field-bean idea worth the
effort? Does it really improve the soil significantly?

I don't know about improving the soil, but the stems would, when
composted and spread. All they put in is nitrogen, and you can do that
with (say) steeped weeds, especially nettles.

Anyone else used the black plastick sheeting method routinely? Which
month do you do it and how long do you leave the sheeting in place? Do
you save the sheeting for use again, the following year?

Not recently, but I used to do it every year on the smallholding. In the
autumn I stacked goat and rabbit manure/cleanings, old cardboard, paper,
straw, weeds, mowings, greengrocers' throwouts (when spurned by goats),
up to a height of about two and a half feet, and covered it with
builders' membrane, opening it from time to time to water it with urine.

This was left for a year, and it resulted in a fine filth - er - tilth -
which wasn't significantly higher than the surrounding soil - but much
more fertile.

I'm still using some of the membrane fifteen years later.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

The message
from Jake D contains these words:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:28:44 +0100, "Emrys Davies"
wrote:

I think at you are going to a lot of trouble without there being much
chance of success as the soil will be far from weed-free when you remove
the covering.

I see. I was assuming it was a quicker process.

Best to roughly dig the soil and expose it to the frosts so that in the
spring you can break it down into a fine tilth ready for spring planting

That sounds an interesting technique. Doesn't that make life difficult
for the earthworms ?

They'll probably forgive you if you give them some nice juicy compost.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

In message , Bob Hobden
writes

"Jake D" wrote
Hi all,
I'm fairly new to vegetable gardening, having started one year ago.
Now that the growing season is over, I'm thinking of trying the
technique of covering the plot with black plastic sheeting, to kill
off all vegetation, prior to next Spring's planting.

The timetable I am contemplating is to plant winter field beans, right
now, to enrich the soil. Then, early next Spring, when the field beans
have grown, cover the whole lot with black plastic for a suitable
time, to kill everything (field beans and weeds) then remove the
plastic and plant my vegetables in the weed-free soil. (I probably
won't dig the soil over at this point, as I want to try no-dig
gardening next year.

Does this sound like a good plan? Is the field-bean idea worth the
effort? Does it really improve the soil significantly?

Anyone else used the black plastick sheeting method routinely? Which
month do you do it and how long do you leave the sheeting in place? Do
you save the sheeting for use again, the following year?

Plastic sheeting will have no benefit for such a short period and can alter
the pH of the soil over an extended period anyway. Green manure I don't use
as I've had a very bad experience with it.
Dig the plot and dig in well rotted horse manure (1 year old) where you
intend to plant your potatoes next season, depends what crop rotation you
use. That's all that needs doing until the early spring when you start
planting again...Broad Beans, Shallots, Onions...
That said, you have already planted your Garlic haven't you.

Sorry - a personal diversion. I have always planted garlic in November
(usually around 15th). This year I am trying Blanak for the first time.
Is your experience that garlic benefits from planting earlier than mid
Nov?

OOI, I sowed Broad Beans (Aquadulce) yesterday. Hope they're as
successful as last year!
--
Tom Withycombe
Milck House
Dorset/UK
+44 (0)1935 872852

The message
from Jake D contains these words:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:35:30 +0100, "catkin"
wrote:


I think that you'd need to leave the plastic in place for at least a year
for this to work. If you remove the plastic in time to plant anything in
spring then there will still be time for weed seeds to germinate and for
perennials like bind weed to grow.

I see. I was jumping to a wrong assumption that the black plastic only
needs to be in place for about a month.

If only...

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

"Tom Withycombe" wrote after Bob Hobden wrote
"Jake D" wrote
Hi all,
I'm fairly new to vegetable gardening, having started one year ago.
Now that the growing season is over, I'm thinking of trying the
technique of covering the plot with black plastic sheeting, to kill
off all vegetation, prior to next Spring's planting.

The timetable I am contemplating is to plant winter field beans, right
now, to enrich the soil. Then, early next Spring, when the field beans
have grown, cover the whole lot with black plastic for a suitable
time, to kill everything (field beans and weeds) then remove the
plastic and plant my vegetables in the weed-free soil. (I probably
won't dig the soil over at this point, as I want to try no-dig
gardening next year.

Does this sound like a good plan? Is the field-bean idea worth the
effort? Does it really improve the soil significantly?

Anyone else used the black plastick sheeting method routinely? Which
month do you do it and how long do you leave the sheeting in place? Do
you save the sheeting for use again, the following year?

Plastic sheeting will have no benefit for such a short period and can
alter
the pH of the soil over an extended period anyway. Green manure I don't
use
as I've had a very bad experience with it.
Dig the plot and dig in well rotted horse manure (1 year old) where you
intend to plant your potatoes next season, depends what crop rotation you
use. That's all that needs doing until the early spring when you start
planting again...Broad Beans, Shallots, Onions...
That said, you have already planted your Garlic haven't you.

Sorry - a personal diversion. I have always planted garlic in November
(usually around 15th). This year I am trying Blanak for the first time. Is
your experience that garlic benefits from planting earlier than mid Nov?

OOI, I sowed Broad Beans (Aquadulce) yesterday. Hope they're as successful
as last year!

Never planted Garlic as late as November so can't comment. I prefer mine to
get up and growing before the winter sets in.

I found I lost so many Broad Beans when I planted in the autumn that I
changed to planting in early Feb. Can't say I noticed any delay in the
cropping.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden

"Jake D" wrote after
"Bob Hobden" wrote:

Plastic sheeting will have no benefit for such a short period and can
alter
the pH of the soil over an extended period anyway. Green manure I don't
use
as I've had a very bad experience with it.

Like what? Do you mind sharing?

When rotovated in it bound the clay together so well that I had to bank up
my spuds like dry stone walling. I'm sure I could have used the lumps and
made bricks.
Took a few years for the soil to get over it and I've never used a green
manure again. One chap on our allotment site does but then his soil is
totally different to mine, his is very friable, even slightly sandy.
My advise is if you garden on clay don't use it.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden

[quote=Bob Hobden;819660]"Jake D" wrote after
"Bob Hobden" wrote:[color=blue][i]

Plastic sheeting will have no benefit for such a short period and can
alter
the pH of the soil over an extended period anyway. Green manure I don't
use
as I've had a very bad experience with it.[\QUOTE]

You might be better using black pervious membrane and planting seedlings etc through it, at least the soil gets moisture and some air, but just do strips of it and hoe the rest. My suggestion would be try a small area this year and see how it goes.

I think that is advice to Merkins. In much of Merika, they can use tricks such as clear plastic to kill off most weeds by solarisation because they have a much hotter summer than us; as the site itself shows, it doesn't work in alaska. But even in the lower 48, I think solarising for a mere 4 weeks would be a bit short; people I have heard talking about this technique talk about leaving it for a whole summer.

Having had bindweed come up through the floorboards, I can assure you that the mere exclusion of light is not a fool-proof weed eradication method. There will be plenty of seeds and dormant rhizomes in the soil, so unless you succeed in increasing the temperature sufficiently to sterilise the medium (as in the solarisation technique referred above), you are going to have weeds come up next year.

Weed-proof membranes used as a long-term weed-excluding medium (as I use on my strawberry bed and my gravel path) are not water-proof like black plastic, because you do need water to go through. They aren't 100% efficient, but they do reduce the amount of weeding you have to by a lot.