I was asking about a plant that I'd seen in a garden a while back. It
was suggested that it was a white form of Geum rivale. Kay convinced me
that it wasn't, but I was still willing to consider the possibility of
another species or hybrid of Geum. Kay also found what she thought was
the same growing wild on limestone in Yorkshire.

Subsequently I found a local site for Geum rivale, which confirmed for
me my belief that the habit was incorrect for this species.

On Sunday I revisited the garden, and found the plant in fruit. It has
fleshy fruits, and is obviously not a Geum. Related plants with fleshy
fruits are Fragaria and Rubus, but I don't find a good match in either
genus.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27317581@N06/3832752847/ - receptacle
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27317581@N06/3833546562/ - fruit
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27317581@N06/3832752785/ - flower
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27317581@N06/3832752717/ - flower/bud
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27317581@N06/3833546480/ - flower

Anyone got any ideas?
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27317581@N06/3832752847/ - receptacle
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27317581@N06/3833546562/ - fruit
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27317581@N06/3832752785/ - flower
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27317581@N06/3832752717/ - flower/bud
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27317581@N06/3833546480/ - flower

I don't have my books at work, but why are you certain that it isn't
cloudberry? What I can see of the leaves look wrong, but is there
more?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Stewart Robert Hinsley writes
I was asking about a plant that I'd seen in a garden a while back. It
was suggested that it was a white form of Geum rivale. Kay convinced me
that it wasn't, but I was still willing to consider the possibility of
another species or hybrid of Geum. Kay also found what she thought was
the same growing wild on limestone in Yorkshire.

Except that mine *was* Geum rivale, just a different form, growing in an
open rather than shaded habitat. (I don't know what colour the flowers
were, but I did have the fruits)


On Sunday I revisited the garden, and found the plant in fruit. It has
fleshy fruits, and is obviously not a Geum. Related plants with fleshy
fruits are Fragaria and Rubus, but I don't find a good match in either
genus.

Rubus saxatilis Stone bramble, though the petals are too wide for that.
Otherwise - a Swedish member of urg gave me a similar Rubus species,
which unfortunately I no longer have, which may have been stone bramble
or may have been something else. She told me it was used for jam in
Sweden
--
Kay

writes
In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27317581@N06/3832752847/ - receptacle
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27317581@N06/3833546562/ - fruit
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27317581@N06/3832752785/ - flower
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27317581@N06/3832752717/ - flower/bud
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27317581@N06/3833546480/ - flower

I don't have my books at work, but why are you certain that it isn't
cloudberry? What I can see of the leaves look wrong, but is there
more?

According to Fitter, cloudberry fruits are orange rather than red, and
the leaves are shallowly lobed rather than trefoil. But cloudberry
sprang into my mind when I saw the original pic, and I looked it up and
dismissed it on the basis of the leaves. Then looking again a few weeks
ago, I realised that what I actually had in mind was stone bramble, but
the petals of that are narrow.
--
Kay

In article ,
K wrote:

I don't have my books at work, but why are you certain that it isn't
cloudberry? What I can see of the leaves look wrong, but is there
more?

According to Fitter, cloudberry fruits are orange rather than red, and
the leaves are shallowly lobed rather than trefoil. But cloudberry
sprang into my mind when I saw the original pic, and I looked it up and
dismissed it on the basis of the leaves. Then looking again a few weeks
ago, I realised that what I actually had in mind was stone bramble, but
the petals of that are narrow.

They are, at least normally, and the leaves are definitely shallowly
lobed. But those pictures didn't include any of the leaves or
(equally important) the way it grows. However, rubi are notoriously
variable, and crosses are common.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
K wrote:

According to Fitter, cloudberry fruits are orange rather than red, and
the leaves are shallowly lobed rather than trefoil. But cloudberry
sprang into my mind when I saw the original pic, and I looked it up and
dismissed it on the basis of the leaves. Then looking again a few weeks
ago, I realised that what I actually had in mind was stone bramble, but
the petals of that are narrow.

According to CTW, unripe cloudberry fruits are red, and the leaves
of male plants are lobed to 1/3 of their depth.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

writes

They are, at least normally, and the leaves are definitely shallowly
lobed. But those pictures didn't include any of the leaves or
(equally important) the way it grows.

His original pics showed both.

However, rubi are notoriously
variable, and crosses are common.

But stone bramble and cloudberry seem to grow in places other rubi don't
reach ;-)
--
Kay

writes
In article ,
K wrote:

According to Fitter, cloudberry fruits are orange rather than red, and
the leaves are shallowly lobed rather than trefoil. But cloudberry
sprang into my mind when I saw the original pic, and I looked it up and
dismissed it on the basis of the leaves. Then looking again a few weeks
ago, I realised that what I actually had in mind was stone bramble, but
the petals of that are narrow.

According to CTW, unripe cloudberry fruits are red, and the leaves
of male plants are lobed to 1/3 of their depth.

That's not deep enough for Stewart's original pics!
--
Kay

In message , K
writes
Stewart Robert Hinsley writes
I was asking about a plant that I'd seen in a garden a while back. It
was suggested that it was a white form of Geum rivale. Kay convinced
me that it wasn't, but I was still willing to consider the possibility
of another species or hybrid of Geum. Kay also found what she thought
was the same growing wild on limestone in Yorkshire.

Except that mine *was* Geum rivale, just a different form, growing in
an open rather than shaded habitat. (I don't know what colour the
flowers were, but I did have the fruits)


On Sunday I revisited the garden, and found the plant in fruit. It has
fleshy fruits, and is obviously not a Geum. Related plants with fleshy
fruits are Fragaria and Rubus, but I don't find a good match in either
genus.

Rubus saxatilis Stone bramble, though the petals are too wide for that.
Otherwise - a Swedish member of urg gave me a similar Rubus species,
which unfortunately I no longer have, which may have been stone bramble
or may have been something else. She told me it was used for jam in
Sweden

Stace says that the fruit of Stone Bramble is composed of from 1 to 6
drupes. There are 11 drupes visible in the photograph of the fruit, and
we can infer that there are more hidden from view.

Otherwise, this plant has solitary flowers. Rubus saxatilis is said to
have flowers in corymbs (like other Rubi) of 3-15.

As you say, this plant has broad petals, but Rubus saxatilis has narrow
petals.

This plant has sepals as long or longer than the petals. Rubus saxatilis
has small (3-5 mm) sepals.

It's difficult to compare with the difference in the number of drupes,
but the swollen receptacle doesn't seem to match either.

The fruits match Rubus tricolor (Chinese creeping bramble), but the rest
of the plant doesn't. (Rubus tricolor has simple leaves, and compound
inflorescences.)

It has the inflorescence of cloudberry (R. chamaemprus), the leaves of
stone bramble (R. saxatilis) and the fruit of Chinese creeping bramble
(R. tricolor). I think we can deduce that it is a Rubus, but I'm still
baffled as to which species.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

It has the inflorescence of cloudberry (R. chamaemprus), the leaves of
stone bramble (R. saxatilis) and the fruit of Chinese creeping bramble
(R. tricolor). I think we can deduce that it is a Rubus, but I'm still
baffled as to which species.

Rubus chimaerus?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Stewart Robert Hinsley writes
It has the inflorescence of cloudberry (R. chamaemprus), the leaves of
stone bramble (R. saxatilis) and the fruit of Chinese creeping bramble
(R. tricolor). I think we can deduce that it is a Rubus, but I'm still
baffled as to which species.

Following up my comment about the plant I used to have, form Sweden,
I've tried googling on 'Rubus Sweden'. That threw me up lots of
chamaemorus and also Rubus arcticus - which has pink flowers.

Let us know when you find out what it is!

--
Kay