Sacha writes
On 2010-01-07 17:45:25 +0000, K said:

I don't think ours was heated - not sure but pretty sure. We just had
to wait for the dread day to arrive...

Our school pool wasn't. We just swam in the summer term. I loved it - it
was the one physical activity I was reasonably good at. In later years I
managed to persuade them to let me do 'double swimming' instead of
'double games'.

I don't believe the Lygons went to my school - literally too close
to home, probably.
This was the previous generation - the Brideshead generation. Home
educated. The last Earl didn't have any children.

I don't know of them at all, not that there's any reason why I would.
We were very sequestered in our school days - nothing llike the freedom
and home clothes etc. that they have now.

The Countess was very involved in the Girl Guides Association, and let
the Guides hold their jamboree in the grounds, and run wild through the
maze. In return, we had to provide a group to sing carols from the
minstrel gallery for their Christmas dinner - very feudal ;-)
--
Kay

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...


Snip

Don't forget water too, most of it out there is frozen solid and the birds
need to find some to drink. They use the filter outfall into our pond
which always stays unfrozen.


The overflow pipe from my neighbour's toilet is dripping [has been for
months - her landlord keeps putting off fixing it]. I watched to day as a
whole host of different birds lined up to take turns perching on the pipe -
bit of a job for the doves - and sipped the water from it.

--
Kathy

"Sacha" wrote...
"Bob Hobden" said:
Don't forget water too, most of it out there is frozen solid and the
birds need to find some to drink. They use the filter outfall into our
pond which always stays unfrozen.

Bob, we stop the pumps running in winter on the grounds that it makes the
water colder if it's being recirculated. I think that's the reason
anyway! Presumably you don't go along with this theory?

It may do but the pump produces some heat to compensate and it's never a
good idea turning off a biological filter, especially a large one. All the
bacteria will die or be replaced with anaerobic types so when you turn the
filter back on you next spring you will effectively push the muck/toxins
back into your pond, bad idea.
The only recourse if turning it off is to strip the filter down and clean it
thoroughly leaving it dry and start again from scratch in the spring but
then it will take months to build up its bacteria to full strength. That
said you can purchase biological starters for them in bottles.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
W.of London. UK

Sacha writes
On 2010-01-07 21:58:07 +0000, K said:

The Countess was very involved in the Girl Guides Association, and
let the Guides hold their jamboree in the grounds, and run wild
through the maze. In return, we had to provide a group to sing carols
from the minstrel gallery for their Christmas dinner - very feudal ;-)

LOL! Sounds like a fair return to me. ;-) I bet you had more fun
than they did!

Oh absolutely! We weren't very good (and we certainly didn't rehearse).
Afterwards, we were allowed to see the Christmas tree in the hall, with
all the presents under it, and drink a glass of ultra-dilute orange
squash.

It was the Countess who provided the Christmas Tree for the town. The
town wasn't very grateful - being of Scandinavian origin, it always had
white lights, and the taste in those days was for bright colours. Well,
of course, everything was relatively drab in those days, and white
didn't look tasteful, it just looked boring.
--
Kay

K wrote:
Sacha writes
On 2010-01-07 15:07:27 +0000, K said:

Certainly were - we didn't have to go in until the water was 60F!

The Municipal swimming pool was Heated - ie a nominal 68 for the main
pool and 70 for the beginners pool. Don't believe it was as 'warm' as
that though.

I don't believe the Lygons went to my school - literally too close to
home, probably.

This was the previous generation - the Brideshead generation. Home
educated. The last Earl didn't have any children.

Probably brass-monkeyed.

--
Rusty

Bob Hobden wrote:


"Sacha" wrote...
"Bob Hobden" said:
Don't forget water too, most of it out there is frozen solid and the
birds need to find some to drink. They use the filter outfall into
our pond which always stays unfrozen.

Bob, we stop the pumps running in winter on the grounds that it makes
the water colder if it's being recirculated. I think that's the
reason anyway! Presumably you don't go along with this theory?

It may do but the pump produces some heat to compensate and it's never a
good idea turning off a biological filter, especially a large one. All
the bacteria will die or be replaced with anaerobic types so when you
turn the filter back on you next spring you will effectively push the
muck/toxins back into your pond, bad idea.
The only recourse if turning it off is to strip the filter down and
clean it thoroughly leaving it dry and start again from scratch in the
spring but then it will take months to build up its bacteria to full
strength. That said you can purchase biological starters for them in
bottles.

If it's a sand filter the organisms within are algae, and will be quite
OK so long as they are kept wet.

Even if they do die, a fortnight's running will 'seed' it with freh algae.

--
Rusty

"Rusty Hinge" wrote ...
Bob Hobden wrote:
"Sacha" wrote...
"Bob Hobden" said:
Don't forget water too, most of it out there is frozen solid and the
birds need to find some to drink. They use the filter outfall into our
pond which always stays unfrozen.

Bob, we stop the pumps running in winter on the grounds that it makes
the water colder if it's being recirculated. I think that's the reason
anyway! Presumably you don't go along with this theory?

It may do but the pump produces some heat to compensate and it's never a
good idea turning off a biological filter, especially a large one. All
the bacteria will die or be replaced with anaerobic types so when you
turn the filter back on you next spring you will effectively push the
muck/toxins back into your pond, bad idea.
The only recourse if turning it off is to strip the filter down and clean
it thoroughly leaving it dry and start again from scratch in the spring
but then it will take months to build up its bacteria to full strength.
That said you can purchase biological starters for them in bottles.

If it's a sand filter the organisms within are algae, and will be quite OK
so long as they are kept wet.

Even if they do die, a fortnight's running will 'seed' it with freh algae.

Sand filters are not usually biological filters, or I should say biological
filters don't use sand as a growing medium for the bacteria. Sand filters
are usually pressure filters for polishing the water.
Lava rock, bits of cut crinkly pipe, filter foam etc are used in biological
filters so there is little effect on flow rates and they have a large
surface area for the bacteria to grow on.
Dead bacteria and the resultant toxins are not what you want being pushed
into your pond in the spring when the fish are getting over a long winter.
Water quality is everything where fish keep is concerned and a build up of
Nitrites etc is bad news for fish health. Clear water has nothing to do with
the quality of the water in this respect.
Running a clean filter will gradually build up a bacteria base but it will
take some time to get to it's optimum working density which is why a lot of
people use a "starter" solution to seed the filter with the "right" bacteria
so it has a good start and to try to avoid toxin build-up as feeding
commences.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
W.of London. UK

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2010-01-07 14:47:24 +0000, "Bob Hobden" said:



snip
Bob, we stop the pumps running in winter on the grounds that it makes the
water colder if it's being recirculated. I think that's the reason
anyway! Presumably you don't go along with this theory?
--
Sacha

Took me a while to get around to answering this.
Water becomes more dense as it becomes colder, and the dense cold water
sinks to the bottom of the pond.
However water is at its most dense at about 4C, so when it is very cold a
layer of water will form at the bottom of the pond at 4C and the water above
it will chill further, and form a seal of ice above the 4C water.
This in turn means that uless there is a prolonged very cold (sub-zero)
spell there will always be water at the bottom of a frozen pond which will
allow fish to survive.
You are supposed to have a very deep area in any fish pond where the fish
can retreat during a cold winter.

If you run a pump which pulls water up from the bottom of the pond and feeds
it through a filter above ground, then unless the filter is adequately
heated you will counteract the natural behaviour of the water and chill
everything down to freezing point.
This in turn is likely to kill your fish.

If you pull the water from near the top of the pond, unless the return flow
disturbs the bottom of the pond then you should be all right (untill your
filter and pipes freeze).

HTH

Dave R

Bob Hobden wrote:

Sand filters are not usually biological filters, or I should say
biological filters don't use sand as a growing medium for the bacteria.

They use it for algae, not bacteria - unless you're alling the old Essex
Water board wrong.

Sand filters are usually pressure filters for polishing the water.

You're talking about smallish scale ones in swimming pools, etc, where
the water is sterilised.

Proper biological sand filters both remove objects and living organisms,
as wel as absorbing many compounds such as nitrates.

Once a sand filter (and it doesn't need to be huge - a five gallon drum
will suffice) is populated with algae, you can pour in the foulest,
pea-soupiest, stinkiest water, and providing you don't want gallons per
minute, the outflow will be potable without the addition of milton or
similar.

Lava rock, bits of cut crinkly pipe, filter foam etc are used in
biological filters so there is little effect on flow rates and they have
a large surface area for the bacteria to grow on.
Dead bacteria and the resultant toxins are not what you want being
pushed into your pond in the spring when the fish are getting over a
long winter. Water quality is everything where fish keep is concerned
and a build up of Nitrites etc is bad news for fish health. Clear water
has nothing to do with the quality of the water in this respect.

So you want a sand filter column: large stones at the bottom, overlaid
with smaller ones, then gravel, coarse sand, finer sand, fine sand,
coarser sand, coarse sand, gravel, shingle, flat stones.

The grains of sand, gravel, and the stones all become coated with algae
- not bacteria - and the ingress of water is dispersed by the stones,
etc, so the fine sand isn't washed through, and the layers of increasing
sized partiles act as barriers to washing-through.

I have drunk water which has been through such a filter - water which
delighted the water-board boffins because of its stomach-churning odour,
its pea-green colour looking into it, and its orangey hue when held up
against the light, and with lots of little moving, bobbing and wriggling
things in it.

"Where did you get *THAT*? It's the best filthy water I've ever seen!"
said one, admiringly: "Just what we wanted!"

Two boffins, one District Venture Scout Leader (me) and two Venture
Scouts venured to try it. Quite unremarkable water.

Running a clean filter will gradually build up a bacteria base but it
will take some time to get to it's optimum working density which is why
a lot of people use a "starter" solution to seed the filter with the
"right" bacteria so it has a good start and to try to avoid toxin
build-up as feeding commences.

The algae will build up to a usable level in about a fortnight of
continuous trickle-running. From there on, it will gobble-up any other
algae, bacteria and dissolved chemicals such as nitrates and phosphates.

AFAIK it doesn't affect dissolved salts such as calcium carbonate,
calcium sulphate etc., but nearly everything else gets et.

--
Rusty