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#1
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A nice day at court(magistrates, not tennis)
Given bail.
To return 12 Sept. 2011 How bad do you have to be to be refused bail? Baz |
#2
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A nice day at court(magistrates, not tennis)
On 15/08/2011 18:00, in article , "Baz" wrote: Given bail. To return 12 Sept. 2011 How bad do you have to be to be refused bail? The Bail Act 1976 asserts a presumption in favour of bail for all people awaiting trial except those on charges of murder, attempted murder, manslaughter, rape or attempted rape. The legislation presumes that an individual will be remanded on bail with various conditions attached unless there are strong reasons to remand them into custody. These include: - They have been accused of carrying out a particularly serious offence * - They have previous convictions for similar offences - There are reasons to believe that they could disappear before their trial. - They have been accused of carrying out a particularly serious offence - There are reasons to believe that they may interfere with witnesses - They is a belief they are likely to commit further offences before their trial * |
#3
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A nice day at court(magistrates, not tennis)
Sacha wrote in :
I thought Baz's perp qualified for most of those. But as a judge has just handed down an 11 month sentence instead of a 12 month one to a drug dealer, thus avoiding his third deportation from this country, it's hardly surprising most of us have given up any hope of real justice for real criminals. Sacha, Was it a judge or a magistrate? Until the other day I thought they were the same (judge and magistrate) but it was explained to me at court that they are very different. I took it all to mean that a judge is a career lawyer so obviously knows the law inside out and is unlikely to be swayed by a load of bull. A magistrate however knows little of the law and are easilly conned into making the wrong decision. I might have gotten the wrong end of the stick, but a judge works in the Crown court for serious matters when a defendant pleads not guilty and is decided by a jury. A magistrate is only in a magistrates court for less serious crimes and doles out tea and sympathy to all who look a bit remorseful. So, a real hardened criminal is caught by the police and put in the local cells until next morning, and his first port of call is the local magistrates court in front of a do-gooder of a magistrate(not a judge)and smarms his way to freedom, much to the disgust of the police and the public. It makes no sense that a shoplifter for example can be remanded and a violent psychopath can go free (not free, but to return). I have put all of this understanding of mine to the clerk of the court over the 'phone this morning because I thought I must have it all wrong and was told, yes thats basically it. It worries me very very much and I was better off not knowing. Its going to take a long time for me to live this down. Baz |
#4
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A nice day at court(magistrates, not tennis)
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 13:06:01 GMT, Baz wrote:
Sacha wrote in : I thought Baz's perp qualified for most of those. But as a judge has just handed down an 11 month sentence instead of a 12 month one to a drug dealer, thus avoiding his third deportation from this country, it's hardly surprising most of us have given up any hope of real justice for real criminals. Sacha, Was it a judge or a magistrate? Until the other day I thought they were the same (judge and magistrate) but it was explained to me at court that they are very different. I took it all to mean that a judge is a career lawyer so obviously knows the law inside out and is unlikely to be swayed by a load of bull. A magistrate however knows little of the law and are easilly conned into making the wrong decision. I might have gotten the wrong end of the stick, but a judge works in the Crown court for serious matters when a defendant pleads not guilty and is decided by a jury. A magistrate is only in a magistrates court for less serious crimes and doles out tea and sympathy to all who look a bit remorseful. So, a real hardened criminal is caught by the police and put in the local cells until next morning, and his first port of call is the local magistrates court in front of a do-gooder of a magistrate(not a judge)and smarms his way to freedom, much to the disgust of the police and the public. It makes no sense that a shoplifter for example can be remanded and a violent psychopath can go free (not free, but to return). I have put all of this understanding of mine to the clerk of the court over the 'phone this morning because I thought I must have it all wrong and was told, yes thats basically it. It worries me very very much and I was better off not knowing. Its going to take a long time for me to live this down. You spoke to the Clerk to the Justices, or a clerk working for the Court? A slight difference, as the latter is, well, a clerk; the former isn't what we'd commonly call a "clerk", but a lawyer, who will usually ensure the Justices don't commit bloopers: on the whole I'll be surprised if a learned Clerk would tend to agree with what you say above. The criminal justice system would crash and burn without JPs. Oh, and what _is_ a "do-gooder", please? -- Mike. |
#5
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A nice day at court(magistrates, not tennis)
Mike Lyle wrote in
: You spoke to the Clerk to the Justices, or a clerk working for the Court? A slight difference, as the latter is, well, a clerk; the former isn't what we'd commonly call a "clerk", but a lawyer, who will usually ensure the Justices don't commit bloopers: on the whole I'll be surprised if a learned Clerk would tend to agree with what you say above. The criminal justice system would crash and burn without JPs. Oh, and what _is_ a "do-gooder", please? I spoke to the viperous person who explains to the magistrate in court what the offender is here for and just what a bad lot the defendant is and advises the JP, magistrate or whatever you need to call them, do-gooder is a good description of an idiot I saw give liberty to a callous, no good trash criminal who invades everyone it comes across. This person is the clerk of the court. The do-gooder is that the person, on the bench with 2 others who has no idea how much they hurt a victim of crime by giving a soft sentence. All of this is fresh in my mind, and I have spoken to this clerk of the court, the same person who was physically in court who was advising the bench. I hope this explains to you just how good our magistrates courts are. Crash and burn indeed! Baz |
#6
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I confess I am intrigued by your comments and have been unable to find the first part of your story, ie what you are accused of etc. Can you point me somewhere? Thanks. |
#7
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An interesting question is why he was here at all, and moreover probably resident, having been deported twice before. We have presumably consciously let him in and allowed him to stay despite his previous two deportations, so presumably we think that record didn't matter. If the mother brought the children here should reasonably have appreciated that the father would not necessarily be able to come here or stay here, then I would have no compunction about deporting him, but I do not know that is the case. |
#8
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A nice day at court(magistrates, not tennis)
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 15:59:36 GMT, Baz wrote:
Mike Lyle wrote in : You spoke to the Clerk to the Justices, or a clerk working for the Court? A slight difference, as the latter is, well, a clerk; the former isn't what we'd commonly call a "clerk", but a lawyer, who will usually ensure the Justices don't commit bloopers: on the whole I'll be surprised if a learned Clerk would tend to agree with what you say above. The criminal justice system would crash and burn without JPs. Oh, and what _is_ a "do-gooder", please? I spoke to the viperous person who explains to the magistrate in court what the offender is here for and just what a bad lot the defendant is and advises the JP, magistrate or whatever you need to call them, do-gooder is a good description of an idiot I saw give liberty to a callous, no good trash criminal who invades everyone it comes across. This person is the clerk of the court. Certainly, the person who advises the magistrates on the law is the Clerk to the Justices. I'm surprised this "viperous" one stepped out of line with you: I don't think he should have criticised the JPs. The do-gooder is that the person, on the bench with 2 others who has no idea how much they hurt a victim of crime by giving a soft sentence. All of this is fresh in my mind, and I have spoken to this clerk of the court, the same person who was physically in court who was advising the bench. I hope this explains to you just how good our magistrates courts are. Crash and burn indeed! Well, crash and burn is what the system _would_ do without them. Imagine if the Crown Court had to deal with every offence instead of only maybe ten per cent of them: the waiting list would make the slowest hospital look brilliant, and they'd probably run out of jurors in a few years. I'm sorry you had a bad experience; but it isn't usually like that. -- Mike. |
#9
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A nice day at court(magistrates, not tennis)
Mike Lyle wrote in
: On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 15:59:36 GMT, Baz wrote: Mike Lyle wrote in m: You spoke to the Clerk to the Justices, or a clerk working for the Court? A slight difference, as the latter is, well, a clerk; the former isn't what we'd commonly call a "clerk", but a lawyer, who will usually ensure the Justices don't commit bloopers: on the whole I'll be surprised if a learned Clerk would tend to agree with what you say above. The criminal justice system would crash and burn without JPs. Oh, and what _is_ a "do-gooder", please? I spoke to the viperous person who explains to the magistrate in court what the offender is here for and just what a bad lot the defendant is and advises the JP, magistrate or whatever you need to call them, do-gooder is a good description of an idiot I saw give liberty to a callous, no good trash criminal who invades everyone it comes across. This person is the clerk of the court. Certainly, the person who advises the magistrates on the law is the Clerk to the Justices. I'm surprised this "viperous" one stepped out of line with you: I don't think he should have criticised the JPs. The do-gooder is that the person, on the bench with 2 others who has no idea how much they hurt a victim of crime by giving a soft sentence. All of this is fresh in my mind, and I have spoken to this clerk of the court, the same person who was physically in court who was advising the bench. I hope this explains to you just how good our magistrates courts are. Crash and burn indeed! Well, crash and burn is what the system _would_ do without them. Imagine if the Crown Court had to deal with every offence instead of only maybe ten per cent of them: the waiting list would make the slowest hospital look brilliant, and they'd probably run out of jurors in a few years. I'm sorry you had a bad experience; but it isn't usually like that. I understand what you mean, Mike. I just wish the magistrates or JP's would toughen up and make the punishment fit the crime. Baz |
#10
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A nice day at court(magistrates, not tennis)
In article , Baz
writes Was it a judge or a magistrate? Magistrates can only sentence to a maximum of 6 months in jail for an offence. (Although they can go up to a year for multiple offences, I think). If the sentence needs to be higher than that, they have to pass the case (or just the sentencing part of it) up to the crown court. -- regards andyw |
#11
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A nice day at court(magistrates, not tennis)
In article , Baz wrote:
I just wish the magistrates or JP's would toughen up and make the punishment fit the crime. Bring back hanging for even minor offences! Since the UK has so successfully restored the 18th century economic model, it should restore the 18th century penal one as well. While revenge-based penalties may make some people feel better, there is a mass of experience that they don't reduce crime - quite the converse. God alone knows why we are trying to ape a country that has much worse crime problems than we do, rather than learn from ones closer to us and with much less serious problems. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#12
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A nice day at court(magistrates, not tennis)
Sacha wrote in :
Part of that - not all of it - is the political will behind the directives given to the judiciary. Quite a lot of politicians seem to live in a sort of glass cage, unaware that the general public is becoming mightily frustrated at a lot of the things going wrong which we used to take for granted. and the closing of things that could be afforded even during the great depression, things like public libraries, and mobile libraries in rural areas, maternity wards in hospitals in remote places etc. bus services, village shops, price of petrol in rural areas, planning decisions but I'd say education, crime and NHS are top of many agendas. I wonder if we'll ever see the day when the middle-classes revolt! I find most of them already revolting. Joking. Baz |
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A nice day at court(magistrates, not tennis)
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#14
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A nice day at court(magistrates, not tennis)
In article , Baz wrote:
I just wish the magistrates or JP's would toughen up and make the punishment fit the crime. Such as a life sentence for murder, or the deportation of illegal immigrants. In a magistrate's court? The first is required by law and the second is normal practice. The (deliberate) inefficiency of the administration has nothing to do with the courts. I do not want to bring back hanging or anything revenge-based. You may not think that you do, but that IS what you are asking for. The past 60 years of experience is uniformly that treating the criminals is vastly more effective at reducing crime than punishing the criminals. I would like repeat violent criminals remanded into custody until their case can be dealt with. Generally, they are, but the consequence of doing that too widely include making crime worse. And mere property damage is not violence, in the normal (common usage legal) meaning of the word. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#15
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A nice day at court(magistrates, not tennis)
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