I promised Spider I would look at it in the Spring to see if we could
identify it.
It has apple-like leaves. It has buds that are flushed red and opens into
white blossom with five large petals, in bunches.
It has a bark like a hawthorn, and is similar in shape and size for a 30 yr
old hawthorn. It has fruit similar to hawthorn, but not the same.
Whatever it is the fieldfares loved it.
I would really like to know what it is.
Tina

On 07/05/2012 22:03, Christina Websell wrote:
I promised Spider I would look at it in the Spring to see if we could
identify it.
It has apple-like leaves. It has buds that are flushed red and opens into
white blossom with five large petals, in bunches.
It has a bark like a hawthorn, and is similar in shape and size for a 30 yr
old hawthorn. It has fruit similar to hawthorn, but not the same.
Whatever it is the fieldfares loved it.
I would really like to know what it is.
Tina






Hi Tina,

Glad I saw this. I don't suppose there's any chance of a photo, is
there? It might help to see the blossom, if it's still in tact. I'm
finding it hard to imagine a tree with hawthorn bark, but apple leaves
and flowers.
--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

"Spider" wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2012 22:03, Christina Websell wrote:
I promised Spider I would look at it in the Spring to see if we could
identify it.
It has apple-like leaves. It has buds that are flushed red and opens
into
white blossom with five large petals, in bunches.
It has a bark like a hawthorn, and is similar in shape and size for a 30
yr
old hawthorn. It has fruit similar to hawthorn, but not the same.
Whatever it is the fieldfares loved it.
I would really like to know what it is.
Tina






Hi Tina,

Glad I saw this. I don't suppose there's any chance of a photo, is there?
It might help to see the blossom, if it's still in tact. I'm finding it
hard to imagine a tree with hawthorn bark, but apple leaves and flowers.
--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

My camera is out of order atm. The tree has far more blossom on than an
apple tree would have, it's covered, but going over now.. I'll have another
look at it tomorrow, btw it doesn't have thorns, and not much of a spread.
I'll try and estimate the height by standing next to it.
Tina

In article ,
says...

I promised Spider I would look at it in the Spring to see if we could
identify it.
It has apple-like leaves. It has buds that are flushed red and opens into
white blossom with five large petals, in bunches.
It has a bark like a hawthorn, and is similar in shape and size for a 30 yr
old hawthorn. It has fruit similar to hawthorn, but not the same.
Whatever it is the fieldfares loved it.
I would really like to know what it is.
Tina

Crataegus prunifolia? It has very distinctive inch-long straight
thorns, much longer than other hawthorns.

Janet

Is it one of the Sorbus? Sorbus aria, whitebeam, with furry white underside to leaves? Seems a long shot, but a close relative to rowan which is a favourite of the thrush family, and the fruit matches.

Someone suggested sorbus, but I haven't seen a sorbus with a crataegus-like bark, though given the closeness of the two genuses, it wouldn't surprise me.

Crataegus is a large genus. There are crataegus with no lobes on their leaves and no thorns, C. crus-galli var inermis for example, but I don't envy someone trying to identify a specific crataegus.

"Christina Websell" wrote in message
...

"Spider" wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2012 22:03, Christina Websell wrote:
I promised Spider I would look at it in the Spring to see if we could
identify it.
It has apple-like leaves. It has buds that are flushed red and opens
into
white blossom with five large petals, in bunches.
It has a bark like a hawthorn, and is similar in shape and size for a
30 yr
old hawthorn. It has fruit similar to hawthorn, but not the same.
Whatever it is the fieldfares loved it.
I would really like to know what it is.
Tina






Hi Tina,

Glad I saw this. I don't suppose there's any chance of a photo, is
there? It might help to see the blossom, if it's still in tact. I'm
finding it hard to imagine a tree with hawthorn bark, but apple leaves
and flowers.
--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

My camera is out of order atm. The tree has far more blossom on than an
apple tree would have, it's covered, but going over now.. I'll have
another look at it tomorrow, btw it doesn't have thorns, and not much of a
spread. I'll try and estimate the height by standing next to it.
Tina


It's around 20 ft high and the spread at the top of the tree is maybe around
15 ft.
The bunches of blossoms are up to 18 flowers in a bunch (the ones I can see
lower in the tree) and all the way up the branches and they are almost as
big, petal-wise, as apple.
It's a mature tree i.e. it looks pretty much the same as when I moved here
26 years ago.
I confirm the bark is like hawthorn.

Does that help? I don't have a clue what it can be.

Tina

On 08/05/2012 17:17, Christina Websell wrote:
"Christina wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2012 22:03, Christina Websell wrote:
I promised Spider I would look at it in the Spring to see if we could
identify it.
It has apple-like leaves. It has buds that are flushed red and opens
into
white blossom with five large petals, in bunches.
It has a bark like a hawthorn, and is similar in shape and size for a
30 yr
old hawthorn. It has fruit similar to hawthorn, but not the same.
Whatever it is the fieldfares loved it.
I would really like to know what it is.
Tina






Hi Tina,

Glad I saw this. I don't suppose there's any chance of a photo, is
there? It might help to see the blossom, if it's still in tact. I'm
finding it hard to imagine a tree with hawthorn bark, but apple leaves
and flowers.
--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

My camera is out of order atm. The tree has far more blossom on than an
apple tree would have, it's covered, but going over now.. I'll have
another look at it tomorrow, btw it doesn't have thorns, and not much of a
spread. I'll try and estimate the height by standing next to it.
Tina


It's around 20 ft high and the spread at the top of the tree is maybe around
15 ft.
The bunches of blossoms are up to 18 flowers in a bunch (the ones I can see
lower in the tree) and all the way up the branches and they are almost as
big, petal-wise, as apple.
It's a mature tree i.e. it looks pretty much the same as when I moved here
26 years ago.
I confirm the bark is like hawthorn.

Does that help? I don't have a clue what it can be.

Tina






Thanks Tina, that's a lot more information to go on. Alas, I can't find
your original post where you described the fruit (I think you said
larger than haws on basic Crataegus, but smaller than crab apples).
Red?. Also, do you remember any autumn leaf colour which might be
significant?
I'm about to make a cup of tea and curl up with a gardening book or two,
so I'll see what I can find out.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 09/05/2012 17:24, Spider wrote:
On 08/05/2012 17:17, Christina Websell wrote:
"Christina wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2012 22:03, Christina Websell wrote:
I promised Spider I would look at it in the Spring to see if we could
identify it.
It has apple-like leaves. It has buds that are flushed red and opens
into
white blossom with five large petals, in bunches.
It has a bark like a hawthorn, and is similar in shape and size for a
30 yr
old hawthorn. It has fruit similar to hawthorn, but not the same.
Whatever it is the fieldfares loved it.
I would really like to know what it is.
Tina






Hi Tina,

Glad I saw this. I don't suppose there's any chance of a photo, is
there? It might help to see the blossom, if it's still in tact. I'm
finding it hard to imagine a tree with hawthorn bark, but apple leaves
and flowers.
--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

My camera is out of order atm. The tree has far more blossom on than an
apple tree would have, it's covered, but going over now.. I'll have
another look at it tomorrow, btw it doesn't have thorns, and not much
of a
spread. I'll try and estimate the height by standing next to it.
Tina


It's around 20 ft high and the spread at the top of the tree is maybe
around
15 ft.
The bunches of blossoms are up to 18 flowers in a bunch (the ones I
can see
lower in the tree) and all the way up the branches and they are almost as
big, petal-wise, as apple.
It's a mature tree i.e. it looks pretty much the same as when I moved
here
26 years ago.
I confirm the bark is like hawthorn.

Does that help? I don't have a clue what it can be.

Tina






Thanks Tina, that's a lot more information to go on. Alas, I can't find
your original post where you described the fruit (I think you said
larger than haws on basic Crataegus, but smaller than crab apples).
Red?. Also, do you remember any autumn leaf colour which might be
significant?
I'm about to make a cup of tea and curl up with a gardening book or two,
so I'll see what I can find out.





Sorry to respond to my own post, but I think I *may* have found your
tree. Certainly, it's the nearest thing so far.

It is called the Chinese Crab or Malus spectabilis (Ait.) Borkh.
My book describes it thus:
"A decorative tree from China where it was found in cultivation, but not
in the wild. Height to 9 metres (30ft). Flowers are usually profuse,
opening in late April and May; each is about 5cm (2in) across when fully
open, 6-8 in a cluster. Fruit is round, yellow, about 2.5cm (1in)
across. Leaves are oval or almost round , about 5-7.5cm (2-3in) long,
round at the base, and pointed at the tip. Bark is dark brown with fine
ridges, often spiralled, and breaking into scales."

[The book is: *Trees in Britain* Europe and North America by Roger
Phillips. The ISBN is 0-330-25480-4]. It is a large format glossy
wipeable softback.

I know there are fewer flowers per cluster than you have described, but
that may be changeable. The bark description and picture were what got
me excited.


--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

"Spider" wrote in message
...
On 08/05/2012 17:17, Christina Websell wrote:
"Christina wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2012 22:03, Christina Websell wrote:
I promised Spider I would look at it in the Spring to see if we could
identify it.
It has apple-like leaves. It has buds that are flushed red and opens
into
white blossom with five large petals, in bunches.
It has a bark like a hawthorn, and is similar in shape and size for a
30 yr
old hawthorn. It has fruit similar to hawthorn, but not the same.
Whatever it is the fieldfares loved it.
I would really like to know what it is.
Tina






Hi Tina,

Glad I saw this. I don't suppose there's any chance of a photo, is
there? It might help to see the blossom, if it's still in tact. I'm
finding it hard to imagine a tree with hawthorn bark, but apple leaves
and flowers.
--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

My camera is out of order atm. The tree has far more blossom on than an
apple tree would have, it's covered, but going over now.. I'll have
another look at it tomorrow, btw it doesn't have thorns, and not much of
a
spread. I'll try and estimate the height by standing next to it.
Tina


It's around 20 ft high and the spread at the top of the tree is maybe
around
15 ft.
The bunches of blossoms are up to 18 flowers in a bunch (the ones I can
see
lower in the tree) and all the way up the branches and they are almost as
big, petal-wise, as apple.
It's a mature tree i.e. it looks pretty much the same as when I moved
here
26 years ago.
I confirm the bark is like hawthorn.

Does that help? I don't have a clue what it can be.

Tina






Thanks Tina, that's a lot more information to go on. Alas, I can't find
your original post where you described the fruit (I think you said larger
than haws on basic Crataegus, but smaller than crab apples). Red?.
Yes, just like haws but bigger.

Also, do you remember any autumn leaf colour which might be
significant?
No, but I will look at this tree in autumn.

I'm about to make a cup of tea and curl up with a gardening book or two,
so I'll see what I can find out.

Thanks.

"Spider" wrote in message
...
On 09/05/2012 17:24, Spider wrote:
On 08/05/2012 17:17, Christina Websell wrote:
"Christina wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2012 22:03, Christina Websell wrote:
I promised Spider I would look at it in the Spring to see if we could
identify it.
It has apple-like leaves. It has buds that are flushed red and opens
into
white blossom with five large petals, in bunches.
It has a bark like a hawthorn, and is similar in shape and size for a
30 yr
old hawthorn. It has fruit similar to hawthorn, but not the same.
Whatever it is the fieldfares loved it.
I would really like to know what it is.
Tina






Hi Tina,

Glad I saw this. I don't suppose there's any chance of a photo, is
there? It might help to see the blossom, if it's still in tact. I'm
finding it hard to imagine a tree with hawthorn bark, but apple leaves
and flowers.
--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

My camera is out of order atm. The tree has far more blossom on than an
apple tree would have, it's covered, but going over now.. I'll have
another look at it tomorrow, btw it doesn't have thorns, and not much
of a
spread. I'll try and estimate the height by standing next to it.
Tina


It's around 20 ft high and the spread at the top of the tree is maybe
around
15 ft.
The bunches of blossoms are up to 18 flowers in a bunch (the ones I
can see
lower in the tree) and all the way up the branches and they are almost
as
big, petal-wise, as apple.
It's a mature tree i.e. it looks pretty much the same as when I moved
here
26 years ago.
I confirm the bark is like hawthorn.

Does that help? I don't have a clue what it can be.

Tina






Thanks Tina, that's a lot more information to go on. Alas, I can't find
your original post where you described the fruit (I think you said
larger than haws on basic Crataegus, but smaller than crab apples).
Red?. Also, do you remember any autumn leaf colour which might be
significant?
I'm about to make a cup of tea and curl up with a gardening book or two,
so I'll see what I can find out.





Sorry to respond to my own post, but I think I *may* have found your tree.
Certainly, it's the nearest thing so far.

It is called the Chinese Crab or Malus spectabilis (Ait.) Borkh.
My book describes it thus:
"A decorative tree from China where it was found in cultivation, but not
in the wild. Height to 9 metres (30ft). Flowers are usually profuse,
opening in late April and May; each is about 5cm (2in) across when fully
open, 6-8 in a cluster. Fruit is round, yellow, about 2.5cm (1in) across.
Leaves are oval or almost round , about 5-7.5cm (2-3in) long, round at the
base, and pointed at the tip. Bark is dark brown with fine ridges, often
spiralled, and breaking into scales."

[The book is: *Trees in Britain* Europe and North America by Roger
Phillips. The ISBN is 0-330-25480-4]. It is a large format glossy
wipeable softback.

I know there are fewer flowers per cluster than you have described, but
that may be changeable. The bark description and picture were what got me
excited.

I think you are the wrong track here. The fruits are red, and the clusters
of blossom are far more than 6-8. I only counted the ones I could see, but
they were all cluster of 18 at least all up the branches.
Tina









--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 09/05/2012 23:31, Christina Websell wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 09/05/2012 17:24, Spider wrote:
On 08/05/2012 17:17, Christina Websell wrote:
"Christina wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2012 22:03, Christina Websell wrote:
I promised Spider I would look at it in the Spring to see if we could
identify it.
It has apple-like leaves. It has buds that are flushed red and opens
into
white blossom with five large petals, in bunches.
It has a bark like a hawthorn, and is similar in shape and size for a
30 yr
old hawthorn. It has fruit similar to hawthorn, but not the same.
Whatever it is the fieldfares loved it.
I would really like to know what it is.
Tina






Hi Tina,

Glad I saw this. I don't suppose there's any chance of a photo, is
there? It might help to see the blossom, if it's still in tact. I'm
finding it hard to imagine a tree with hawthorn bark, but apple leaves
and flowers.
--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

My camera is out of order atm. The tree has far more blossom on than an
apple tree would have, it's covered, but going over now.. I'll have
another look at it tomorrow, btw it doesn't have thorns, and not much
of a
spread. I'll try and estimate the height by standing next to it.
Tina


It's around 20 ft high and the spread at the top of the tree is maybe
around
15 ft.
The bunches of blossoms are up to 18 flowers in a bunch (the ones I
can see
lower in the tree) and all the way up the branches and they are almost
as
big, petal-wise, as apple.
It's a mature tree i.e. it looks pretty much the same as when I moved
here
26 years ago.
I confirm the bark is like hawthorn.

Does that help? I don't have a clue what it can be.

Tina






Thanks Tina, that's a lot more information to go on. Alas, I can't find
your original post where you described the fruit (I think you said
larger than haws on basic Crataegus, but smaller than crab apples).
Red?. Also, do you remember any autumn leaf colour which might be
significant?
I'm about to make a cup of tea and curl up with a gardening book or two,
so I'll see what I can find out.





Sorry to respond to my own post, but I think I *may* have found your tree.
Certainly, it's the nearest thing so far.

It is called the Chinese Crab or Malus spectabilis (Ait.) Borkh.
My book describes it thus:
"A decorative tree from China where it was found in cultivation, but not
in the wild. Height to 9 metres (30ft). Flowers are usually profuse,
opening in late April and May; each is about 5cm (2in) across when fully
open, 6-8 in a cluster. Fruit is round, yellow, about 2.5cm (1in) across.
Leaves are oval or almost round , about 5-7.5cm (2-3in) long, round at the
base, and pointed at the tip. Bark is dark brown with fine ridges, often
spiralled, and breaking into scales."

[The book is: *Trees in Britain* Europe and North America by Roger
Phillips. The ISBN is 0-330-25480-4]. It is a large format glossy
wipeable softback.

I know there are fewer flowers per cluster than you have described, but
that may be changeable. The bark description and picture were what got me
excited.

I think you are the wrong track here. The fruits are red, and the clusters
of blossom are far more than 6-8. I only counted the ones I could see, but
they were all cluster of 18 at least all up the branches.
Tina






What a shame! It is, however, encouraging that there is a Malus type
tree with something approaching Hawthorn bark. The only Malus I found
with anything like the amount of blossom yours carries is M. van
Eseltine, but the blossom is pink and semi-double *and* the bark is
typical Malus as far as I can see. Oh, and I think the fruits may be
yellow, so not much help.

I'll keep working on it.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay