We received a letter today from the estate agents who administer our
allotment site on behalf of the owners, that the site is to be sold, by
private treaty and informal tender. So after nearly 100 years of gardening,
it looks like our plot will soon be housing. I can't see anyone wanting to
buy it and keep it as allotments.

www.savills.co.uk/canfordportfolio refers. Lot 1g is the allotment site,
just in case you want to save us.

The new owners will apparently have to give us 12 months notice, but the
sale is expected to be completed in autumn of this year. So we're on
borrowed time.

Steve

On Sat, 9 Jun 2012 22:42:51 +0100, "shazzbat"
wrote:

We received a letter today from the estate agents who administer our
allotment site on behalf of the owners, that the site is to be sold, by
private treaty and informal tender. So after nearly 100 years of gardening,
it looks like our plot will soon be housing. I can't see anyone wanting to
buy it and keep it as allotments.

www.savills.co.uk/canfordportfolio refers. Lot 1g is the allotment site,
just in case you want to save us.

The new owners will apparently have to give us 12 months notice, but the
sale is expected to be completed in autumn of this year. So we're on
borrowed time.


That sounds bad.

But is there planning permission for housing?

"shazzbat" wrote

We received a letter today from the estate agents who administer our
allotment site on behalf of the owners, that the site is to be sold, by
private treaty and informal tender. So after nearly 100 years of gardening,
it looks like our plot will soon be housing. I can't see anyone wanting to
buy it and keep it as allotments.

www.savills.co.uk/canfordportfolio refers. Lot 1g is the allotment site,
just in case you want to save us.

The new owners will apparently have to give us 12 months notice, but the
sale is expected to be completed in autumn of this year. So we're on
borrowed time.

You need to find out if it's Statutory Allotment Land because that gives you
some protection in law and they will need Dept of the Environment permission
to change use and they are not a pushover. In any event they need Council
permission for change of use but they can be a pushover where housing and
more tax income is concerned.
Ever thought of clubbing together and buying it?
If you form a club you may get grants to help purchase the land and even run
it afterwards.
http://ben-network.org.uk/grants/intro.html
If it's been allotments for 100 years even the Heritage Lottery Fund may
help, worth a phone call.


--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

"shazzbat" wrote in message
...
We received a letter today from the estate agents who administer our
allotment site on behalf of the owners, that the site is to be sold, by
private treaty and informal tender. So after nearly 100 years of
gardening, it looks like our plot will soon be housing. I can't see anyone
wanting to buy it and keep it as allotments.

www.savills.co.uk/canfordportfolio refers. Lot 1g is the allotment site,
just in case you want to save us.

The new owners will apparently have to give us 12 months notice, but the
sale is expected to be completed in autumn of this year. So we're on
borrowed time.

Steve
3.85 acres.The developers should be able to squeeze 50 townhouses on to
that. The buyers of the townhouses will be trying to grow a few tomatoes in
containers in their pocket -handkerchief courtyards while yearning for a
bit of real dirt somewhere.
I can only imagine how you must be feeling with the end of an era staring
you in the face. I notice that the "guide price" is $75000 which is a lot to
the average Joe but chickenfeed to a Local Council. It strikes me that your
local authority should be encouraging the intriguing British tradition of
allotmenteering which is all but unknown here in the Colonies. They should
buy the parcel and another one as well to provide for the new residents in
what is sure to be high density/maximum profit housing built on other
parcels. Though after lurking around uk.rec.gardening for a while and
reading about this years lovely warm sunny fecund British Spring I can't
imagine why you bother.
Other posters to this thread have made some suggestions which may be worth
following up. Best of luck!
PH

On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 10:45:16 +1000, Peter Howard wrote:

3.85 acres. The developers should be able to squeeze 50 townhouses on to
that.
snip
I notice that the "guide price" is $75000 ...

or £50,000/hectare. Trying to decide if that is expensive, ie the
land already has outline planning permission of some sort.

The OP needs to get together with the other allotment owners and do
some digging but not on their plots, through the records about the
land. Find out what rights they have, the actual status of the land,
see if they can get (part) funding to form their own Allotment
Association and buy it. Talk to the current owner, perhaps there
could be changes to the current agreements etc that would mean they
no longer wish to sell (but I suspect the owner wants the cash...).

The method of sale makes me suspicious as well, "private treaty and
informal tender". Is there some cough deal going on in the
background, dig about for deatils of the current owners and if a
company the directors of that company, then have look to see what
other directorships they or close associates (wifes, girlfriends,
business partners etc) have...

As I said start digging...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 10:45:16 +1000, "Peter Howard"
wrote:


"shazzbat" wrote in message
...
We received a letter today from the estate agents who administer our
allotment site on behalf of the owners, that the site is to be sold, by
private treaty and informal tender. So after nearly 100 years of
gardening, it looks like our plot will soon be housing. I can't see anyone
wanting to buy it and keep it as allotments.

www.savills.co.uk/canfordportfolio refers. Lot 1g is the allotment site,
just in case you want to save us.

The new owners will apparently have to give us 12 months notice, but the
sale is expected to be completed in autumn of this year. So we're on
borrowed time.

Steve
3.85 acres.The developers should be able to squeeze 50 townhouses on to
that. The buyers of the townhouses will be trying to grow a few tomatoes in
containers in their pocket -handkerchief courtyards while yearning for a
bit of real dirt somewhere.
I can only imagine how you must be feeling with the end of an era staring
you in the face. I notice that the "guide price" is $75000 which is a lot to
the average Joe but chickenfeed to a Local Council. It strikes me that your
local authority should be encouraging the intriguing British tradition of
allotmenteering which is all but unknown here in the Colonies. They should
buy the parcel and another one as well to provide for the new residents in
what is sure to be high density/maximum profit housing built on other
parcels. Though after lurking around uk.rec.gardening for a while and
reading about this years lovely warm sunny fecund British Spring I can't
imagine why you bother.
Other posters to this thread have made some suggestions which may be worth
following up. Best of luck!

That guide price is very much less than the value of building land,
which suggests that planning permission for building is not available.

On 10/06/2012 12:15, Fuschia wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 10:45:16 +1000, "Peter Howard"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
We received a letter today from the estate agents who administer our
allotment site on behalf of the owners, that the site is to be sold, by
private treaty and informal tender. So after nearly 100 years of
gardening, it looks like our plot will soon be housing. I can't see anyone
wanting to buy it and keep it as allotments.

www.savills.co.uk/canfordportfolio refers. Lot 1g is the allotment site,
just in case you want to save us.

The new owners will apparently have to give us 12 months notice, but the
sale is expected to be completed in autumn of this year. So we're on
borrowed time.

Steve
3.85 acres.The developers should be able to squeeze 50 townhouses on to
that. The buyers of the townhouses will be trying to grow a few tomatoes in
containers in their pocket -handkerchief courtyards while yearning for a
bit of real dirt somewhere.
I can only imagine how you must be feeling with the end of an era staring
you in the face. I notice that the "guide price" is $75000 which is a lot to
the average Joe but chickenfeed to a Local Council. It strikes me that your
local authority should be encouraging the intriguing British tradition of
allotmenteering which is all but unknown here in the Colonies. They should
buy the parcel and another one as well to provide for the new residents in
what is sure to be high density/maximum profit housing built on other
parcels. Though after lurking around uk.rec.gardening for a while and
reading about this years lovely warm sunny fecund British Spring I can't
imagine why you bother.
Other posters to this thread have made some suggestions which may be worth
following up. Best of luck!

That guide price is very much less than the value of building land,
which suggests that planning permission for building is not available.




Or it may imply an auction. The price could go up.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 10:45:16 +1000, Peter Howard wrote:

3.85 acres. The developers should be able to squeeze 50 townhouses on to
that.
snip
I notice that the "guide price" is $75000 ...

or £50,000/hectare. Trying to decide if that is expensive, ie the
land already has outline planning permission of some sort.

The price for a house plot with planning permission is about £50,000.
The guide price is pricing the land as an allotment site, not a
potential residential development. (Try taking the annual rent on an
allotment, multiply by the number of allotments, and see what percentage
of £75,000 it is.)

With planning permission for 50 town houses it would go for over
£1,000,000.

The OP needs to get together with the other allotment owners and do
some digging but not on their plots, through the records about the
land. Find out what rights they have, the actual status of the land,
see if they can get (part) funding to form their own Allotment
Association and buy it. Talk to the current owner, perhaps there
could be changes to the current agreements etc that would mean they
no longer wish to sell (but I suspect the owner wants the cash...).

The method of sale makes me suspicious as well, "private treaty and
informal tender". Is there some cough deal going on in the
background, dig about for deatils of the current owners and if a
company the directors of that company, then have look to see what
other directorships they or close associates (wifes, girlfriends,
business partners etc) have...

As I said start digging...

--
Cheers
Dave.




--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 23:41:32 +0100, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

3.85 acres. The developers should be able to squeeze 50
townhouses on
to that.
snip
I notice that the "guide price" is $75000 ...

or £50,000/hectare. Trying to decide if that is expensive, ie the
land already has outline planning permission of some sort.

The price for a house plot with planning permission is about £50,000..

I wasn't sure what proportion of a 150 to 200k house would be down to
the land it is built on.

The guide price is pricing the land as an allotment site, not a
potential residential development.

This is true the entry in the brochure for the Allotments doesn't
mention anything about planning permissions outline or otherwise. If
such any permission existed then I doubt the estate agent would have
left it out, as it adds so much to the value of the land... The
allotments lot is a tiddly part of an estate valued at 10 million.

Reading between the lines of the description I get the "don't even
think about buying this to build on, unless you want a fight with the
council and allotment holders" impression.

There are 31 allotments on the site, if everyone put in £2,500 that
would be £77,500. A buyer of Lot 1 (a whole farm) could well be
willing to sell the alloments to an alloment group just to make it
SEP (Someone Elses Problem). No demands for a water supply, ungraded
security fencing, maintenance of paths and access or WHY...

I should imagine that the council would support the formation of an
"Allotment Trustees" group, there are other sources of money, some
have already been mentioned. There are national organisation(s) for
Allotments, get in touch with them, they should know about other
sources and should be able to support the formation of a group.
Warning it will be hard work and it almost certainly end up with just
a few determined individuals doing most of the whilst the other
holders sit on their deck chairs by their sheds.

All is not lost!

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 23:41:32 +0100, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

3.85 acres. The developers should be able to squeeze 50
townhouses on
to that.
snip
I notice that the "guide price" is $75000 ...

or £50,000/hectare. Trying to decide if that is expensive, ie the
land already has outline planning permission of some sort.

The price for a house plot with planning permission is about £50,000.

I wasn't sure what proportion of a 150 to 200k house would be down to
the land it is built on.

The guide price is pricing the land as an allotment site, not a
potential residential development.

This is true the entry in the brochure for the Allotments doesn't
mention anything about planning permissions outline or otherwise. If
such any permission existed then I doubt the estate agent would have
left it out, as it adds so much to the value of the land... The
allotments lot is a tiddly part of an estate valued at 10 million.

Reading between the lines of the description I get the "don't even
think about buying this to build on, unless you want a fight with the
council and allotment holders" impression.

There are 31 allotments on the site, if everyone put in £2,500 that
would be £77,500. A buyer of Lot 1 (a whole farm) could well be
willing to sell the alloments to an alloment group just to make it
SEP (Someone Elses Problem). No demands for a water supply, ungraded
security fencing, maintenance of paths and access or WHY...

I should imagine that the council would support the formation of an
"Allotment Trustees" group, there are other sources of money, some
have already been mentioned. There are national organisation(s) for
Allotments, get in touch with them, they should know about other
sources and should be able to support the formation of a group.
Warning it will be hard work and it almost certainly end up with just
a few determined individuals doing most of the whilst the other
holders sit on their deck chairs by their sheds.

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions everyone.

The portfolio describes the allotment site as "bare land", and I'm sure that
if any planning permission existed, they would have mentioned it. The
allotments site is as has been mentioned a very small part of a massive
portfolio. I think that Canford school, a major fee-paying school in the
region and the main item in Canford estate's portfolio, needs money for a
major rebuild they are having if I hear correctly. All this may be to
finance that, I don't know.

There is a recently formed allotment association in Ferndown, but it's a
strange business, the association was formed although no allotments exist
for them. They formed and took membership fees, and then said they were
trying to find some land to have allotments on. There has been quite a row
about it, especially as some people thoght they were getting on a waiting
list for existing plots.

I have sent an email to the local council, who have no allotments and are
therefore in breach of their obligations under the allotments act or
whatever it may be called, and have spoken to a chap from the allotment
association. Apparently a meeting is coming up this week, and this matter is
sure to be raised. But the chap I spoke to feels like me, that the site will
go to a developer. In recent years every available scrap of land round here
has been filled with granny flats and care homes, including one site where
several large homes in a row were demolished, notably one house which was
almost new.

There are both grass snakes and adders in the vicinity, I have seen the
former on my own allotment, and have heard about adders from others. I'm
going to get in touch with the herpetological society to see if they can get
involved. If we could get some form of SSSI or conservation area status that
would help.

I expect the most likely outcome will be that the site is purchased by a
developer, who will immediately give us notice to quit, and apply for
planning permission once they have got rid of us. I will still object to the
application, but without much hope of success.

Steve

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 23:41:32 +0100, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

3.85 acres. The developers should be able to squeeze 50
townhouses on
to that.
snip
I notice that the "guide price" is $75000 ...

or £50,000/hectare. Trying to decide if that is expensive, ie the
land already has outline planning permission of some sort.

The price for a house plot with planning permission is about £50,000.

I wasn't sure what proportion of a 150 to 200k house would be down to
the land it is built on.

I was looking at a house last year, and I reckoned it was overpriced by
about £40,000, on the possibility of building a 2nd house on the garden.

I've just googled for building plots locally, and one with planning
permission for a 4 bedroom house came up at £165,000 (but that's
probably a £350,000 house.) Also a 3 bed-semi, with adjacent plot at
£250,000, which would be pricing the plot at £75,000, and a plot in the
next town north at £125,000.

If it was a dozen executive homes, rather than 50 townhouses, that would
probably be £200,000 per plot.

More googling finds agricultural land going for £10,000 per acre, and
this would be an inconvenient site for agricultural operations. But
perhaps worth more as a site for a plant nursery, or as rented horse
paddocks.

The guide price is pricing the land as an allotment site, not a
potential residential development.

This is true the entry in the brochure for the Allotments doesn't
mention anything about planning permissions outline or otherwise. If
such any permission existed then I doubt the estate agent would have
left it out, as it adds so much to the value of the land... The
allotments lot is a tiddly part of an estate valued at 10 million.

Reading between the lines of the description I get the "don't even
think about buying this to build on, unless you want a fight with the
council and allotment holders" impression.

There are 31 allotments on the site, if everyone put in £2,500 that
would be £77,500. A buyer of Lot 1 (a whole farm) could well be
willing to sell the alloments to an alloment group just to make it
SEP (Someone Elses Problem). No demands for a water supply, ungraded
security fencing, maintenance of paths and access or WHY...

I was guessing a larger number of allotments. The rent on 31 allotments
wouldn't provide a competitive return on an investment of £75,000, even
before you take expenses into account. (And guide prices, at least on
auctions, are pitched very low.) On the other hand it's far under the
potential value of the land as residential land, so I don't understand
how it has been valued.

I should imagine that the council would support the formation of an
"Allotment Trustees" group, there are other sources of money, some
have already been mentioned. There are national organisation(s) for
Allotments, get in touch with them, they should know about other
sources and should be able to support the formation of a group.
Warning it will be hard work and it almost certainly end up with just
a few determined individuals doing most of the whilst the other
holders sit on their deck chairs by their sheds.

All is not lost!

--
Cheers
Dave.




--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:41:36 +0100, shazzbat wrote:

I think that Canford school, a major fee-paying school in the region and
the main item in Canford estate's portfolio, needs money for a major
rebuild they are having if I hear correctly. All this may be to finance
that, I don't know.

That would seem likely, digging about through accounts and proposals
might be fruitful. Chucking long standing (100 years did you say)
allotment holders off would not be good publicity for a school, even
if they had sold the land. Maybe alert the local press now whilst
they are still the landlord, would deter developers a little if they
got the impression that there was likely to be a fight.

There are both grass snakes and adders in the vicinity, I have seen the
former on my own allotment, and have heard about adders from others.

Both protected species, got any newts or bats? Maybe you could
encourage bats, if you had a shed or two with bats that would really
slow down developers. Remember the allotment holders are on rolling
12 month leases with "various" start thus ending dates. Make sure
everyone renews their lease promptly.

If we could get some form of SSSI or conservation area status that
would help.

I *think* an SSSI would stop you cultivating the land but would also
stop it being developed. But rare/protected species (animal or plant)
may get the land some protection in it's current form.

Any trees? If they aren't a problem for the allotment holders get
Tree Preservation Orders on them, they are a problem get any work
done then get TPO's... More obstacles for a developer to overcome or
work around, makes the plot less attractive.

I will still object to the application, but without much hope of
success.

That's a bit negative. How about trying one of those internet based
money raising things? You might not get much but it opens the
possible donors to the world not just the holders and their friends
and family, also makes it "just a click to give" instead of the chore
of writing a cheque or handing over cash.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:45:06 +0100, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

More googling finds agricultural land going for £10,000 per acre,

Acre or hectare? I thought agri land was sold by the hectare these
days and a hectare is nearly 2 1/2 acres. I get the impression from
"Farming Today" that 10k/hectare would be the top price for top
quality farmland not some tiny random bit of ground with housing
around it.

I was guessing a larger number of allotments.

Not surprising as a normal allotment is 1/16 of an acre and this land
is supposed to be 3.85 acres = 61 1/16ths. So with space for paths or
silly corners etc 50 plots would be expected. That seems quite a
difference are these large plots or is the quoted land area
incorrect?

The rent on 31 allotments wouldn't provide a competitive return on an
investment of £75,000, even before you take expenses into account.

This is true, £25/year/plot on 31 plots would return about 1% before
expenses.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:45:06 +0100, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
More googling finds agricultural land going for £10,000 per acre,

Acre or hectare? I thought agri land was sold by the hectare these
days and a hectare is nearly 2 1/2 acres. I get the impression from
"Farming Today" that 10k/hectare would be the top price for top
quality farmland not some tiny random bit of ground with housing
around it.

My OH reckons decent agri land around here (S Norfolk) has been making
between £8,000 and £10,000 an acre recently. I quizzed him about
acres/hectares and he's adamant he means acres.

--
Sue

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:45:06 +0100, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

More googling finds agricultural land going for £10,000 per acre,

Acre or hectare? I thought agri land was sold by the hectare these
days and a hectare is nearly 2 1/2 acres. I get the impression from
"Farming Today" that 10k/hectare would be the top price for top
quality farmland not some tiny random bit of ground with housing
around it.

Acre. E.g. 8.77 acres of pasture for £85,000. (That's probably top
quality pasture land.) However, I was looking at small packets, which
often go to "equestrian" use.

However a block of a 150 acres near Carlisle is on the market at
£1,150,000, or approaching £8,000 per acre. Even upland (grade 4)
pastures are going at £3,000 per acre.

I was guessing a larger number of allotments.

Not surprising as a normal allotment is 1/16 of an acre and this land
is supposed to be 3.85 acres = 61 1/16ths. So with space for paths or
silly corners etc 50 plots would be expected. That seems quite a
difference are these large plots or is the quoted land area
incorrect?

The rent on 31 allotments wouldn't provide a competitive return on an
investment of £75,000, even before you take expenses into account.

This is true, £25/year/plot on 31 plots would return about 1% before
expenses.

--
Cheers
Dave.




--
Stewart Robert Hinsley