In article ,
says...

Not so long ago I told Ray that I'd read of a wholesale nursery going
belly up. Today, he learned a bit more about it and said it was
because it had a £3 million order from a supermarket chain which
suddenly decided to halve that order. Then it said that if they potted
the remaining order on, they might buy them. They didn't.
Personally, I don't understand why anyone puts their entire future and
livelihood into the hands of one customer. But neither do I understand
the morals of a customer who will do that to a supplier.

Why make it about morality? It's about business, what the
supermarket can sell, to customers whose choices are led by the weather
and the economy. If there's a late cold spring, down goes the demand for
tender plug plants and GYO salad trays. When budgets are feeling the
pinch paying bills and buying food, customers may spend less on hanging
baskets or pots of bulbs in flower.

It may be very lovely for you, a comfortably off non-working
housewife with a car to spend more time during the day, and more money,
shopping in small businesses. Don't you realise it's a luxury to have
such means and opportunity, one denied to many working parents on a very
tight budget. They need to shop outside working hours. How many small
bakers, butchers and grocers stay open in the evening? Even if they
did, what does a single working parent do with the tired children as
s/he trails them a mile or two from shop to shop ? Carrying the
shopping, because small shops don't have a great big car park, and
trolleys with child seats.


Janet.

On 01/09/2013 10:57, Janet wrote:
In article ,
says...

Not so long ago I told Ray that I'd read of a wholesale nursery going
belly up. Today, he learned a bit more about it and said it was
because it had a £3 million order from a supermarket chain which
suddenly decided to halve that order. Then it said that if they potted
the remaining order on, they might buy them. They didn't.
Personally, I don't understand why anyone puts their entire future and
livelihood into the hands of one customer. But neither do I understand
the morals of a customer who will do that to a supplier.

Why make it about morality? It's about business, what the
supermarket can sell, to customers whose choices are led by the weather
and the economy. If there's a late cold spring, down goes the demand for
tender plug plants and GYO salad trays. When budgets are feeling the
pinch paying bills and buying food, customers may spend less on hanging
baskets or pots of bulbs in flower.

It may be very lovely for you, a comfortably off non-working
housewife with a car to spend more time during the day, and more money,
shopping in small businesses. Don't you realise it's a luxury to have
such means and opportunity, one denied to many working parents on a very
tight budget. They need to shop outside working hours. How many small
bakers, butchers and grocers stay open in the evening? Even if they
did, what does a single working parent do with the tired children as
s/he trails them a mile or two from shop to shop ? Carrying the
shopping, because small shops don't have a great big car park, and
trolleys with child seats.


Janet.

How the hell did our parents and grand parents survive?

On Sun, 01 Sep 2013 11:24:46 +0100, David Hill
wrote:

How the hell did our parents and grand parents survive?

It's why many mothers of younger children were not in employment
outside the home then. Now, it takes two salaries to keep a roof over
the family's head, also, many have had to move away from the extended
family (who might have helped with child care) in order to get those
salaries.

That said, it seems many parents of younger children now seem to
expect to spend more time and money on a social life than I remember
my parents' generation doing.

To bring this back on-topic, have you noticed that gardens are now
generally considered part of the living space, not an opportunity to
grow food?

Gardening on Wilts/Somerset border
on slightly alkaline clay underlying soil worked for many decades.

On 01/09/13 11:24, David Hill wrote:
How the hell did our parents and grand parents survive?

Part of their survival involved spending ~30%
of income on food. That's now down to ~15%

There are multiple reasons for that change,
but big supermarkets are part of it.

Tom Gardner wrote:
Part of their survival involved spending ~30%
of income on food. That's now down to ~15%

Is that really the % of income spent?
I may have to make it tonight's project to work out the % I spend on
various things. I suspect, but need to confirm, that the order will
be: mortgage; transport; childcare and possibly /then/ food

Hmm. Is that /all/ food, including eating out? Where does any going
out for drinks go, is that food or socialising/other?

On 1 Sep 2013 20:01:56 GMT, Victoria Conlan wrote:

I may have to make it tonight's project to work out the % I spend on
various things. I suspect, but need to confirm, that the order will
be: mortgage; transport; childcare and possibly /then/ food

Last 12 months it's energy (£6400), transport ie cars and fuel
(£5500), groceries (£4300), children are teenagers (£800, mainly
clothes), no mortgage.

Hmm. Is that /all/ food, including eating out? Where does any going
out for drinks go, is that food or socialising/other?

Don't do those, can't afford it.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
I may have to make it tonight's project to work out the % I spend on
various things. I suspect, but need to confirm, that the order will
be: mortgage; transport; childcare and possibly /then/ food
Last 12 months it's energy (?6400), transport ie cars and fuel
(?5500), groceries (?4300), children are teenagers (?800, mainly
clothes), no mortgage.

I pay nearly 25/day just to get to/from work, 3-4 days a week. Childcare
is about the same per day, but is nearer the 4 days a week, so probably
slightly edges out transport. The kids are about to start having school
dinners most days (Benjamin already does most days, Daniel used to be
packed lunch, but we've gone through the menu and he's agreed to all but
2 days out of 3 weeks) - that's 2/day/child, which I'm not sure how it
will compare with packed lunch contents.

On 2013-09-01 21:01:56 +0100, Victoria Conlan said:

Tom Gardner wrote:
Part of their survival involved spending ~30%
of income on food. That's now down to ~15%

Is that really the % of income spent?
I may have to make it tonight's project to work out the % I spend on
various things. I suspect, but need to confirm, that the order will
be: mortgage; transport; childcare and possibly /then/ food

Hmm. Is that /all/ food, including eating out? Where does any going
out for drinks go, is that food or socialising/other?

Socialising but too random to be properly added into an equation?
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 01/09/13 21:01, Victoria Conlan wrote:
Tom Gardner wrote:
Part of their survival involved spending ~30%
of income on food. That's now down to ~15%

Is that really the % of income spent?

I wouldn't stake my life on it, but IIRC those
are about the quoted percentages.

But the variance would be interesting, as would
the percentages as a function of income; I doubt
Bill Gates spends 15% of his income on food

So I suspect the stats obscure as much as they
illuminate, and it is always worth remembering
that 37% of statistics are made up on the spot.

I may have to make it tonight's project to work out the % I spend on
various things.

Sometimes interesting; always worthwhile.

I suspect, but need to confirm, that the order will
be: mortgage; transport; childcare and possibly /then/ food

Hmm. Is that /all/ food, including eating out? Where does any going
out for drinks go, is that food or socialising/other?

Who knows

Tom Gardner wrote:
So I suspect the stats obscure as much as they
illuminate, and it is always worth remembering
that 37% of statistics are made up on the spot.

In a moment of work-avoidance, I have analysed my last few credit card
bills and come out with the following:

(this is not % of income, this is %age of total credit card bill, so I'm
not sure if this is a good or bad way of taking into account when we have
a low spending month, ie when taking holiday off work)

Transport:- May:35% June:60% Jul:39% Aug:57%
Groceries:- May:39% June:25% Jul:22% Aug:23%
Going out:- May: 9% June:13% Jul: 6% Aug: 3%
House/Gdn:- May:12% June: 2% Jul: 7% Aug:15%
Other :- May: 5% June: 0 Jul:26% Aug: 2%

Childcare is not included, because that comes direct off salary, and is
a fixed amount of around 15% of income/month, even though the actual amount
is varied, if that makes sense.

So basically, other thn May which seems to have been a bit grocery-heavy
for some reason (which possibly means it included something non-grocery
on a supermarket shop, such as grow bags or something similar), my travel
costs far outweigh my food costs.

On 2013-09-01 11:24:46 +0100, David Hill said:

On 01/09/2013 10:57, Janet wrote:
In article ,
says...

Not so long ago I told Ray that I'd read of a wholesale nursery going
belly up. Today, he learned a bit more about it and said it was
because it had a £3 million order from a supermarket chain which
suddenly decided to halve that order. Then it said that if they potted
the remaining order on, they might buy them. They didn't.
Personally, I don't understand why anyone puts their entire future and
livelihood into the hands of one customer. But neither do I understand
the morals of a customer who will do that to a supplier.

Why make it about morality? It's about business, what the
supermarket can sell, to customers whose choices are led by the weather
and the economy. If there's a late cold spring, down goes the demand for
tender plug plants and GYO salad trays. When budgets are feeling the
pinch paying bills and buying food, customers may spend less on hanging
baskets or pots of bulbs in flower.

It may be very lovely for you, a comfortably off non-working
housewife with a car to spend more time during the day, and more money,
shopping in small businesses. Don't you realise it's a luxury to have
such means and opportunity, one denied to many working parents on a very
tight budget. They need to shop outside working hours. How many small
bakers, butchers and grocers stay open in the evening? Even if they
did, what does a single working parent do with the tired children as
s/he trails them a mile or two from shop to shop ? Carrying the
shopping, because small shops don't have a great big car park, and
trolleys with child seats.


Janet.

How the hell did our parents and grand parents survive?

My grandparents didn't have cars, so in the case of one she had a
longish walk to the shops and back and the other had a small shop in
the parish. I'm fairly sure butchers delivered but fishmongers didn't,
so it would have been a bus to town for both of them and then back
again. I daresay many of us can remember parents and grandparents
coping with daily life in just that way.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On Sun, 01 Sep 2013 11:24:46 +0100, David Hill
wrote:

How the hell did our parents and grand parents survive?

By shopping more often at the small local shops. I went to the shop
every morning before going to work.

Steve

--
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com

In article , david@abacus-
nurseries.co.uk says...

On 01/09/2013 10:57, Janet wrote:
In article ,
says...

Not so long ago I told Ray that I'd read of a wholesale nursery going
belly up. Today, he learned a bit more about it and said it was
because it had a £3 million order from a supermarket chain which
suddenly decided to halve that order. Then it said that if they potted
the remaining order on, they might buy them. They didn't.
Personally, I don't understand why anyone puts their entire future and
livelihood into the hands of one customer. But neither do I understand
the morals of a customer who will do that to a supplier.

Why make it about morality? It's about business, what the
supermarket can sell, to customers whose choices are led by the weather
and the economy. If there's a late cold spring, down goes the demand for
tender plug plants and GYO salad trays. When budgets are feeling the
pinch paying bills and buying food, customers may spend less on hanging
baskets or pots of bulbs in flower.

It may be very lovely for you, a comfortably off non-working
housewife with a car to spend more time during the day, and more money,
shopping in small businesses. Don't you realise it's a luxury to have
such means and opportunity, one denied to many working parents on a very
tight budget. They need to shop outside working hours. How many small
bakers, butchers and grocers stay open in the evening? Even if they
did, what does a single working parent do with the tired children as
s/he trails them a mile or two from shop to shop ? Carrying the
shopping, because small shops don't have a great big car park, and
trolleys with child seats.


Janet.

How the hell did our parents and grand parents survive?

Because society was completely different. Nuclear families were less
common; extended family at hand for looking after children. Divorce was
rare; "single parenting by choice" almost unheard of, two employed
parents rare. Few people had cars or fridges. Shops opened 9 to 6,
closed at lunchtime and weekends; lots of them delivered.

Janet

"Janet" wrote in message
t...

In article ,
says...

Not so long ago I told Ray that I'd read of a wholesale nursery going
belly up. Today, he learned a bit more about it and said it was
because it had a £3 million order from a supermarket chain which
suddenly decided to halve that order. Then it said that if they potted
the remaining order on, they might buy them. They didn't.
Personally, I don't understand why anyone puts their entire future and
livelihood into the hands of one customer. But neither do I understand
the morals of a customer who will do that to a supplier.

Why make it about morality? It's about business, what the
supermarket can sell, to customers whose choices are led by the weather
and the economy. If there's a late cold spring, down goes the demand for
tender plug plants and GYO salad trays. When budgets are feeling the
pinch paying bills and buying food, customers may spend less on hanging
baskets or pots of bulbs in flower.

It may be very lovely for you, a comfortably off non-working
housewife with a car to spend more time during the day, and more money,
shopping in small businesses. Don't you realise it's a luxury to have
such means and opportunity, one denied to many working parents on a very
tight budget. They need to shop outside working hours. How many small
bakers, butchers and grocers stay open in the evening? Even if they
did, what does a single working parent do with the tired children as
s/he trails them a mile or two from shop to shop ? Carrying the
shopping, because small shops don't have a great big car park, and
trolleys with child seats.


Janet.

On 2013-09-01 10:57:41 +0100, Janet said:

In article ,
says...

Not so long ago I told Ray that I'd read of a wholesale nursery going
belly up. Today, he learned a bit more about it and said it was
because it had a £3 million order from a supermarket chain which
suddenly decided to halve that order. Then it said that if they potted
the remaining order on, they might buy them. They didn't.
Personally, I don't understand why anyone puts their entire future and
livelihood into the hands of one customer. But neither do I understand
the morals of a customer who will do that to a supplier.

Why make it about morality? It's about business, what the
supermarket can sell, to customers whose choices are led by the weather
and the economy. If there's a late cold spring, down goes the demand for
tender plug plants and GYO salad trays. When budgets are feeling the
pinch paying bills and buying food, customers may spend less on hanging
baskets or pots of bulbs in flower.

It may be very lovely for you, a comfortably off non-working
housewife with a car to spend more time during the day, and more money,
shopping in small businesses. Don't you realise it's a luxury to have
such means and opportunity, one denied to many working parents on a very
tight budget. They need to shop outside working hours. How many small
bakers, butchers and grocers stay open in the evening? Even if they
did, what does a single working parent do with the tired children as
s/he trails them a mile or two from shop to shop ? Carrying the
shopping, because small shops don't have a great big car park, and
trolleys with child seats.


Janet.

What a lot of assumptions you do make, Janet. You know much less than
you think about my life now, or in the past. But never let it be said
that you miss an opportunity to further your spitefilled rants.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk