In article ,
David Hill wrote:

Just to be different, what about ilex pyramidalis?

Thanks, but it would be a bit dominating in combination with
a yew and a bay!


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 2014-02-05 19:03:06 +0000, Jeff Layman said:

On 05/02/2014 13:35, Nick Maclaren wrote:
Many years ago, I planted a Philadelphus "Belle Etoile" but did
not realise that it would not grow above 4-5 feet. So:

What are the chances of me moving one with a basal width of a
few inches? Yes, I know how, but not what the chances are.

Can anyone think of a good small tree or shrub that will grow
in an upright fashion (critical) to 10-20' - or can be pruned
to be no higher than 10' and to avoid spreading sideways too
much (as I do with Abelia and Berberis vulgaris) - and preferably
is a good show of white in the spring for a reasonable period?

I have found plausible hits with some Viburnum, Philadelphus
(but is replanting OK for them?), Dipelta, Amelanchier and
Exochorda, but the main problem is getting one that is reliably
upright. Buddleia and Syringa are fallback only.

Also, can Amelanchier lamarkii be pruned to keep it that small?
The RHS says "no", but that's not always true.

And why on earth are fragrant woody plants always so much less
fragrant in my garden than elsewhere? No, don't bother with that;
it's just one of Life's Great Mysteries.

Maybe some of the fastigiate Cornus might meet the bill. But if you
can do without the spring flowers, and get them at a time of the year
when not much else will be in flower, then Eucryphia x nymansensis
‘Nymansay’ or E. cordifolia might be worth consideration.

Could be a bit chilly for Eucryphia?
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

On 2014-02-05 20:05:55 +0000, Nick Maclaren said:

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:

Maybe some of the fastigiate Cornus might meet the bill. But if you can
do without the spring flowers, and get them at a time of the year when
not much else will be in flower, then Eucryphia x nymansensis ‘Nymansay’
or E. cordifolia might be worth consideration.

Thanks very much. Yes, Cornus might. I doubt that Eucryphia
would like the cold, though :-(


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Whoops - spoke too soon! I take it a Camellia sasanqua wouldn't do,
Nick? Camellias can be trimmed and my ex-fil who had dozens, used to
cut one particular very large and very old one right back to one stem
sticking out the top. He did this every few years to keep the shape
and the plant is still there and going strong.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

On 06/02/2014 14:48, sacha wrote:
On 2014-02-05 20:05:55 +0000, Nick Maclaren said:

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:

Maybe some of the fastigiate Cornus might meet the bill. But if you can
do without the spring flowers, and get them at a time of the year when
not much else will be in flower, then Eucryphia x nymansensis ‘Nymansay’
or E. cordifolia might be worth consideration.

Thanks very much. Yes, Cornus might. I doubt that Eucryphia
would like the cold, though :-(


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Whoops - spoke too soon! I take it a Camellia sasanqua wouldn't do,
Nick? Camellias can be trimmed and my ex-fil who had dozens, used to cut
one particular very large and very old one right back to one stem
sticking out the top. He did this every few years to keep the shape and
the plant is still there and going strong.

Unless C. sasanqua is tougher than the usual run of Camellias, I would
have thought that in his location he would lose the flowers to frost
(with the possible exception of this year).

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

On 2014-02-06 15:10:44 +0000, Stewart Robert Hinsley said:

On 06/02/2014 14:48, sacha wrote:
On 2014-02-05 20:05:55 +0000, Nick Maclaren said:

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:

Maybe some of the fastigiate Cornus might meet the bill. But if you can
do without the spring flowers, and get them at a time of the year when
not much else will be in flower, then Eucryphia x nymansensis ‘Nymansay’
or E. cordifolia might be worth consideration.

Thanks very much. Yes, Cornus might. I doubt that Eucryphia
would like the cold, though :-(


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Whoops - spoke too soon! I take it a Camellia sasanqua wouldn't do,
Nick? Camellias can be trimmed and my ex-fil who had dozens, used to cut
one particular very large and very old one right back to one stem
sticking out the top. He did this every few years to keep the shape and
the plant is still there and going strong.

Unless C. sasanqua is tougher than the usual run of Camellias, I would
have thought that in his location he would lose the flowers to frost
(with the possible exception of this year).

Depennds when they get first frosts. C. sasanqua Baronesa de Soutelhino
flowers in October and November but it does like a sheltered place. A
later flowering type might do it. There's a hybrid called Snow Flurry
which is autumn flowering, I think and is said to be hardy.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 06/02/2014 14:46, sacha wrote:
On 2014-02-05 19:03:06 +0000, Jeff Layman said:


Maybe some of the fastigiate Cornus might meet the bill. But if you
can do without the spring flowers, and get them at a time of the year
when not much else will be in flower, then Eucryphia x nymansensis
‘Nymansay’ or E. cordifolia might be worth consideration.

Could be a bit chilly for Eucryphia?

I believe that they may well be a lot hardier than often thought, in
particular Eucryphia x nymansensis ‘Nymansay’:
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~gdk/sta.../septpom02.htm

I am not sure if the original plant is still at Nymans, but there are a
number of fairly large Eucryphias there. They must have survived some
cold winters, and, as far as I remember, they are not in the walled
garden. True, Sussex isn't Cambridgeshire, but it can get cold. I
guess that Nick could always take a stroll over to the Cambridge Botanic
Gardens to see if there is anything growing there which takes his fancy.

--

Jeff

In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

Maybe some of the fastigiate Cornus might meet the bill. But if you can
do without the spring flowers, and get them at a time of the year when
not much else will be in flower, then Eucryphia x nymansensis ‘Nymansay’
or E. cordifolia might be worth consideration.

Thanks very much. Yes, Cornus might. I doubt that Eucryphia
would like the cold, though :-(

Whoops - spoke too soon! I take it a Camellia sasanqua wouldn't do,
Nick? Camellias can be trimmed and my ex-fil who had dozens, used to cut
one particular very large and very old one right back to one stem
sticking out the top. He did this every few years to keep the shape and
the plant is still there and going strong.

Unless C. sasanqua is tougher than the usual run of Camellias, I would
have thought that in his location he would lose the flowers to frost
(with the possible exception of this year).

Yes, that's my problem with a lot of the winter-flowering plants.
Even Viburnum x bodnantense rarely produces good flowers. But
Camellia sasanqua is worth a thought, for foliage alone.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
On 06/02/2014 14:46, sacha wrote:

Maybe some of the fastigiate Cornus might meet the bill. But if you
can do without the spring flowers, and get them at a time of the year
when not much else will be in flower, then Eucryphia x nymansensis
‘Nymansay’ or E. cordifolia might be worth consideration.

Could be a bit chilly for Eucryphia?

I believe that they may well be a lot hardier than often thought, in
particular Eucryphia x nymansensis ‘Nymansay’:
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~gdk/sta.../septpom02.htm

I am not sure if the original plant is still at Nymans, but there are a
number of fairly large Eucryphias there. They must have survived some
cold winters, and, as far as I remember, they are not in the walled
garden. True, Sussex isn't Cambridgeshire, but it can get cold. I
guess that Nick could always take a stroll over to the Cambridge Botanic
Gardens to see if there is anything growing there which takes his fancy.

Thanks for the reminder! I tend to not go that often, since they
started regarding people like me as an easy income stream, which
made popping over for a quick half-hour every now and then an
expensive proposition. But it would be a good time of a good year
to check up on hardy, early-flowering shrubs!


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 06/02/2014 17:06, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
On 06/02/2014 14:46, sacha wrote:

Maybe some of the fastigiate Cornus might meet the bill. But if you
can do without the spring flowers, and get them at a time of the year
when not much else will be in flower, then Eucryphia x nymansensis
‘Nymansay’ or E. cordifolia might be worth consideration.

Could be a bit chilly for Eucryphia?

I believe that they may well be a lot hardier than often thought, in
particular Eucryphia x nymansensis ‘Nymansay’:
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~gdk/sta.../septpom02.htm

I am not sure if the original plant is still at Nymans, but there are a
number of fairly large Eucryphias there. They must have survived some
cold winters, and, as far as I remember, they are not in the walled
garden. True, Sussex isn't Cambridgeshire, but it can get cold. I
guess that Nick could always take a stroll over to the Cambridge Botanic
Gardens to see if there is anything growing there which takes his fancy.

Thanks for the reminder! I tend to not go that often, since they
started regarding people like me as an easy income stream, which
made popping over for a quick half-hour every now and then an
expensive proposition. But it would be a good time of a good year
to check up on hardy, early-flowering shrubs!

Is it worth you joining the Friends (£32 for an annual membership equals
pass)?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.



--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

In article , lid
says...

On 06/02/2014 14:46, sacha wrote:
On 2014-02-05 19:03:06 +0000, Jeff Layman said:


Maybe some of the fastigiate Cornus might meet the bill. But if you
can do without the spring flowers, and get them at a time of the year
when not much else will be in flower, then Eucryphia x nymansensis
?Nymansay? or E. cordifolia might be worth consideration.

Could be a bit chilly for Eucryphia?

I believe that they may well be a lot hardier than often thought, in
particular Eucryphia x nymansensis ?Nymansay?:
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~gdk/sta.../septpom02.htm

I am not sure if the original plant is still at Nymans, but there are a
number of fairly large Eucryphias there. They must have survived some
cold winters, and, as far as I remember, they are not in the walled
garden. True, Sussex isn't Cambridgeshire, but it can get cold. I
guess that Nick could always take a stroll over to the Cambridge Botanic
Gardens to see if there is anything growing there which takes his fancy.

Cambridge has hotter summers and colder winters than St Andrews.

Janet

On 06/02/2014 17:06, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
On 06/02/2014 14:46, sacha wrote:

Maybe some of the fastigiate Cornus might meet the bill. But if you
can do without the spring flowers, and get them at a time of the year
when not much else will be in flower, then Eucryphia x nymansensis
‘Nymansay’ or E. cordifolia might be worth consideration.

Could be a bit chilly for Eucryphia?

I believe that they may well be a lot hardier than often thought, in
particular Eucryphia x nymansensis ‘Nymansay’:
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~gdk/sta.../septpom02.htm

I am not sure if the original plant is still at Nymans, but there are a
number of fairly large Eucryphias there. They must have survived some
cold winters, and, as far as I remember, they are not in the walled
garden. True, Sussex isn't Cambridgeshire, but it can get cold. I
guess that Nick could always take a stroll over to the Cambridge Botanic
Gardens to see if there is anything growing there which takes his fancy.

Thanks for the reminder! I tend to not go that often, since they
started regarding people like me as an easy income stream, which
made popping over for a quick half-hour every now and then an
expensive proposition. But it would be a good time of a good year
to check up on hardy, early-flowering shrubs!

Is it worth you joining the Friends (£32 for an annual membership equals
pass)?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.



--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

I am not sure if the original plant is still at Nymans, but there are a
number of fairly large Eucryphias there. They must have survived some
cold winters, and, as far as I remember, they are not in the walled
garden. True, Sussex isn't Cambridgeshire, but it can get cold. I
guess that Nick could always take a stroll over to the Cambridge Botanic
Gardens to see if there is anything growing there which takes his fancy.

Thanks for the reminder! I tend to not go that often, since they
started regarding people like me as an easy income stream, which
made popping over for a quick half-hour every now and then an
expensive proposition. But it would be a good time of a good year
to check up on hardy, early-flowering shrubs!

Is it worth you joining the Friends (£32 for an annual membership equals
pass)?

Financially, no. My work has been moved a long way away from it
(and it used to be a 15 minute walk), and it's a beggar to get to.
There used to be free entrance for all members of the University,
and I was one of the many people ****ed off when the decision was
taken to regard us as purely an easy source of income - and, yes,
that WAS the reason to offer no discount even on FUCBG membership.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 06/02/2014 17:36, Janet wrote:
In article , lid
Could be a bit chilly for Eucryphia?

I believe that they may well be a lot hardier than often thought, in
particular Eucryphia x nymansensis ?Nymansay?:
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~gdk/sta.../septpom02.htm

I am not sure if the original plant is still at Nymans, but there are a
number of fairly large Eucryphias there. They must have survived some
cold winters, and, as far as I remember, they are not in the walled
garden. True, Sussex isn't Cambridgeshire, but it can get cold. I
guess that Nick could always take a stroll over to the Cambridge Botanic
Gardens to see if there is anything growing there which takes his fancy.

Cambridge has hotter summers and colder winters than St Andrews.

Janet

It has hotter summers, but the average winter )temperatures (in Nov,
Dec, Jan, and Feb) for St Andrews (actually Leuchars) are lower than
Cambridge. However, the record lows are lower, and the record highs
higher for Cambridge. But overall there's not a lot in it.

See tables at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge#Climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_And...er_and_climate

--

Jeff

On 06/02/2014 17:06, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
On 06/02/2014 14:46, sacha wrote:

Maybe some of the fastigiate Cornus might meet the bill. But if you
can do without the spring flowers, and get them at a time of the year
when not much else will be in flower, then Eucryphia x nymansensis
‘Nymansay’ or E. cordifolia might be worth consideration.

Could be a bit chilly for Eucryphia?

I believe that they may well be a lot hardier than often thought, in
particular Eucryphia x nymansensis ‘Nymansay’:
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~gdk/sta.../septpom02.htm

I am not sure if the original plant is still at Nymans, but there are a
number of fairly large Eucryphias there. They must have survived some
cold winters, and, as far as I remember, they are not in the walled
garden. True, Sussex isn't Cambridgeshire, but it can get cold. I
guess that Nick could always take a stroll over to the Cambridge Botanic
Gardens to see if there is anything growing there which takes his fancy.

Thanks for the reminder! I tend to not go that often, since they
started regarding people like me as an easy income stream, which
made popping over for a quick half-hour every now and then an
expensive proposition. But it would be a good time of a good year
to check up on hardy, early-flowering shrubs!

I went to CBG in August 2012. It was stiflingly hot that day, and IIRC
it was the hottest day of the year! The tropical houses were a real
treat...

You are quite right, with this very mild winter a lot of the
earlier-flowering spring shrubs may well decide to bloom weeks earlier.
Of course, you'll have to hope that there aren't any severe frosts
that damage the buds, especially if they are just opening.

By the way, just something else for consideration - Styrax.

--

Jeff

"Nick Maclaren" wrote


Many years ago, I planted a Philadelphus "Belle Etoile" but did
not realise that it would not grow above 4-5 feet. So:

What are the chances of me moving one with a basal width of a
few inches? Yes, I know how, but not what the chances are.

Can anyone think of a good small tree or shrub that will grow
in an upright fashion (critical) to 10-20' - or can be pruned
to be no higher than 10' and to avoid spreading sideways too
much (as I do with Abelia and Berberis vulgaris) - and preferably
is a good show of white in the spring for a reasonable period?

I have found plausible hits with some Viburnum, Philadelphus
(but is replanting OK for them?), Dipelta, Amelanchier and
Exochorda, but the main problem is getting one that is reliably
upright. Buddleia and Syringa are fallback only.

Also, can Amelanchier lamarkii be pruned to keep it that small?
The RHS says "no", but that's not always true.

And why on earth are fragrant woody plants always so much less
fragrant in my garden than elsewhere? No, don't bother with that;
it's just one of Life's Great Mysteries.



Have you thought of something unusual (for the UK), like Albizia
julibrissin. It will take the cold, a fully mature one shrugged off -14°C in
a friends garden on a regular basis, but they are not keen on winter wet,
soggy cold feet, which I understand is what killed the one they planted at
Kew. Can't remember if you are on clay or sand. The one I grew from seed
which I planted out two years ago in our front garden still has some green
leaves on it even now, although on clay/silt we are on a slight rise and
it's over gravel not far down.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK